EU and Luke

Tychu · Post by **Tychu** » 2004-07-31 11:17pm

I was just reading my 80ish EU book, which i am a fan of, i love the EU but one of my biggest petpieves of the EU is that Luke is always put in situations in which animals lick him and he has to comfort and "love" the animals back in order for him not to be killed. The New Rebellion is one such book in which Luke needs to "play" with the Thernbee a huge, gigantic creature in order for it to help him escape and not be eaten.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-07-31 11:31pm

What a pussification. This is the SAME Luke who wrestled a Rancor.

And you like the EU WHY? In HttE at least Luke was still killing predators.

Sometimes I wish they could start over. Redo the EU with more... consistency and a better attention to detail. But that's a pipe dream.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-07-31 11:38pm

What's the "80ish EU book"?

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2004-07-31 11:41pm

Tychu wrote:I was just reading my 80ish EU book, which i am a fan of, i love the EU but one of my biggest petpieves of the EU is that Luke is always put in situations in which animals lick him and he has to comfort and "love" the animals back in order for him not to be killed. The New Rebellion is one such book in which Luke needs to "play" with the Thernbee a huge, gigantic creature in order for it to help him escape and not be eaten.

The way your post is worded makes it sound like you are accusing EU authors of making Luke into a zoophile or something.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-08-01 12:10am

He's killed...

Wampas
Rancors
Lava Worms
Vornskyrs

and plenty of YV critters.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-08-01 12:27am

Is it just me, or is Tychu judging Luke's portrayal in the EU just by one book?

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-08-01 12:35am

While I liked NJO, it made Luke into a bit of a wuss...

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-08-01 12:37am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Is it just me, or is Tychu judging Luke's portrayal in the EU just by one book?

I don't know, the over-pussification of Luke was one big beef of mine. But the animal-lover thing is hardly the worst case of it. Though there are some annoying cases of it.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2004-08-01 12:51am

Read The Crystal Star.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-08-01 12:54am

Galvatron wrote:Read The Crystal Star.

I'd rather not and just say I did.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2004-08-01 12:55am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Galvatron wrote:Read The Crystal Star.
I'd rather not and just say I did.

Good call. The first half...sucked. There is no better word.

It finally picked up about midway through, but good God the first half was the longest, most drawn out reading I;ve ever done this side of the The Scarlet Letter.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2004-08-01 12:56am

Just about every book has wussified him, and I had the impression that at the end of Return of the Jedi that he had reached a sort of understanding for his place and how to act. Laying down your arms and asking to get your ass kicked is not what it takes (New Rebellion) Being a pacifist reclusive monk seeking answers that you ain't gonna find is another (Black Fleet Crisis). Luke met his resolve when he burned his father on the pyre. Luke is an active Jedi Master. It wasn't until the last few books of the NJO and only in the Thrawn Trilogy that Luke was actually a kick ass individual.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-08-01 01:05am

Praxis wrote:While I liked NJO, it made Luke into a bit of a wuss...

In certain books, yes. In others it makes him out to be a badass. Dark Empire was one good example of a 'non-pussy' Luke, either initial-LS, DS or Redeemed-LS versions. And Zahn does a good job of making him out to be extremely talented and brave etc without going into "I am the King! Hail to the King, baby!"

He only has cameos in the X-wing books IIRC. BFC portrays him in a bad light, but I can't remember that trilogy well, and I remember hating it anyway.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-08-01 01:06am

Luke kicked ass in Vector Prime and didn't stop till it was over.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-08-01 01:12am

Cal Wright wrote:It wasn't until the last few books of the NJO and only in the Thrawn Trilogy that Luke was actually a kick ass individual.

Dark Empire I already mentioned. He only has a cameo role in the X-wing books as far as I know. The BFC was shit to begin with. But everything he's been in that was written by Zahn has made him out to be extremely competent and brave/resourceful etc, including the Duology. However I haven't read Survivor's Quest, so I don't know how he's depicted there. As for the NJO, I'm sure Luke's alleged wussification only adds to that series' bullshit factor.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-08-01 01:41am

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Luke kicked ass in Vector Prime and didn't stop till it was over.

Only sort of, and worse yet he spent the next ummm... too many anyways, books being a useless, cringing pussy-boy. Damn I lost all respect for him. If Durron weren't one of the more annoying characters I would have been routing for him, as it was I still think he was one of the few jedi with their priorities straight. The others being Kyle Katarn and Corran Horn.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-08-01 02:38am

Stormbringer wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Luke kicked ass in Vector Prime and didn't stop till it was over.
Only sort of, and worse yet he spent the next ummm... too many anyways, books being a useless, cringing pussy-boy. Damn I lost all respect for him. If Durron weren't one of the more annoying characters I would have been routing for him, as it was I still think he was one of the few jedi with their priorities straight. The others being Kyle Katarn and Corran Horn.

Agreed, Lukes preocupation and the Jedi's in general, with the stupid black and white moral deliema of 'being a cop' or 'being one with the force' is one subplot that the EU and NJO specifically, can do without.

The moral preening in NJO is so obnoxious I (at times) am actually cheering for the moral retards to get [Tony Soprano] Whacked [/Tony Soprano]

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2004-08-01 06:21am

The pussification of Luke in the NJO is simple. IIRC he was supposed to be killed off and at Lucas said no leaving him to be a bit of a spare wheel in the whole story line. Still he wasn't have the bitch Jacen was.

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2004-08-01 07:52am

In a lot of the EU I've read, they seem to either potray many Jedi as either whiny pacifistic crybabies, or whiny belligerent assholes.
Therefore I conclude that 90% of EU authors don't know how to write for Luke or the Jedi and shouldn't try.

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2004-08-01 03:52pm

Cao Cao wrote:In a lot of the EU I've read, they seem to either potray many Jedi as either whiny pacifistic crybabies, or whiny belligerent assholes.
Therefore I conclude that 90% of EU authors don't know how to write for Luke or the Jedi and shouldn't try.

I just finished Steven Barnes' The Cestus Deception, which centered around two Jedi, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Kit Fisto. I thought Barnes portrayed them well, though there was one fight that irritated the hell out of me.

SPOILERS:
Fisto and Kenobi track down Asajj Ventress and she sends a horde of alien thugs at them. Kenobi and Fisto put their lightsabers away, reasoning that since the alien thugs do not really understand the situation they could not, in good conscience, kill them.

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2004-08-01 04:00pm

The NJO's wussification of luke is (In my opinion) the worst in the NJO.

He barely does any fighting at all, but when he actually DOES, you can see he's good at it. Killing the supreme overlord of the YV takes him all of what, one minute?

Although that whole "Wandering monk" think in the black fleet crisis takes a close second.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-08-01 09:09pm

Stormbringer wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Luke kicked ass in Vector Prime and didn't stop till it was over.
Only sort of, and worse yet he spent the next ummm... too many anyways, books being a useless, cringing pussy-boy. Damn I lost all respect for him. If Durron weren't one of the more annoying characters I would have been routing for him, as it was I still think he was one of the few jedi with their priorities straight. The others being Kyle Katarn and Corran Horn.

I liked Ganner, kinda because he had the most badass death scene I've read in a while.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-08-01 09:34pm

Stofsk wrote:
Cal Wright wrote:It wasn't until the last few books of the NJO and only in the Thrawn Trilogy that Luke was actually a kick ass individual.
Dark Empire I already mentioned. He only has a cameo role in the X-wing books as far as I know. The BFC was shit to begin with. But everything he's been in that was written by Zahn has made him out to be extremely competent and brave/resourceful etc, including the Duology. However I haven't read Survivor's Quest, so I don't know how he's depicted there. As for the NJO, I'm sure Luke's alleged wussification only adds to that series' bullshit factor.

SQ he was his typical Zahn written self. Pretty resourceful and such. But you got to see him still trying to adjust to marriage, which was interesting.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-08-01 11:49pm

Cao Cao wrote:In a lot of the EU I've read, they seem to either potray many Jedi as either whiny pacifistic crybabies, or whiny belligerent assholes. Therefore I conclude that 90% of EU authors don't know how to write for Luke or the Jedi and shouldn't try.

I think the EU writers should actually look a little at the source material that Lucas based the Jedi on before they try to write the Jedi. They're supposed to be samurai, yet the authors seem to be locked into a consideration of the Jedi as monks or sorcerors cloistered on Yavin IV.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-08-02 12:06am

Pablo Sanchez wrote:
Cao Cao wrote:In a lot of the EU I've read, they seem to either potray many Jedi as either whiny pacifistic crybabies, or whiny belligerent assholes. Therefore I conclude that 90% of EU authors don't know how to write for Luke or the Jedi and shouldn't try.
I think the EU writers should actually look a little at the source material that Lucas based the Jedi on before they try to write the Jedi. They're supposed to be samurai, yet the authors seem to be locked into a consideration of the Jedi as monks or sorcerors cloistered on Yavin IV.

Actually, Lucas most closely compared the Jedi to US Marshalls.

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