Peter David vs Timothy Zahn

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-07-27 03:39pm

Peter David has written the best ST books out there. Zahn is the best SW author. Who has done more for their respective series? Which author's work would you prefer to read (based on the merits of the writing and not the shared universe)?

Whose books are better?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-07-27 04:19pm

I like PAD more(but that's more personal bias since I know the man)...but seriously I like his writing style more.

But as to the two materials. I'd say Zahn did more in resurgance with his trilogy but his last few books(both the duology and the NJO aftershow) were not as good as his intial bid.

That and I say PAD got more with less really. The Excalibur books and it's captain kicks butt, and his crew feels more alive then most of the show's crew does.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-07-27 06:11pm

Close. I ain't read enough PAD to make a descions but I'd lean towards him. His books seems close to ST than Zahn's to do SW.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-07-27 06:16pm

Ghost Rider wrote:I like PAD more(but that's more personal bias since I know the man)...but seriously I like his writing style more.

But as to the two materials. I'd say Zahn did more in resurgance with his trilogy but his last few books(both the duology and the NJO aftershow) were not as good as his intial bid.

That and I say PAD got more with less really. The Excalibur books and it's captain kicks butt, and his crew feels more alive then most of the show's crew does.

Cool. I've read his ST stuff but not any of his NF. (I didn't want a commitment.

) Now I will check it out.

Also, what does the A in PAD stand for, and how do you know him?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-07-27 06:53pm

Denning is better than Zahn.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-07-27 07:43pm

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:
Also, what does the A in PAD stand for, and how do you know him?

Allen.

Many comic book conventions and treating him to a few free lunches. Guy has many fun stories.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2004-07-28 12:41am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Denning is better than Zahn.

Who

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-07-28 12:43am

Crown wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:Denning is better than Zahn.
Who

Troy Denning.

I believe he wrote Star by Star and Tatooine's ghost.

Just to answer the question

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-07-28 04:32am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Denning is better than Zahn.

I disagree. Tattooine Ghost is overrated, while Star By Star is still part of the idiotic NJO storyline, and didn't hold my interest long enough. Meanwhile Zahn's Thrawn trilogy is gripping and exciting (and yes, the minimalism is annoying, but I don't think of it as a major setback or issue). The only problem with Zahn was he created a character that is fanwanked horribly for no justification ("Thrawn is teh ub3r 1334!!!!11"

).

For those who know more about PAD, because I've only read one book of his (Q-Sqaured), can someone give me a DETAILED description of the New Frontier series (try not to spoil it)? I'l google it separately by myself, but if anyone can tell me a bit about it?

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-07-28 07:45am

I can't give you extreme deatils ive only read the first book. But I can give deatails of the first for book arc.

Basically an empire near feddie space has collapsed into chaos ans satrfleet sends a ship the USS Excalibur to lend humantarian aid, rebuild the sector deal with trouble etc.

This ship will be commandedd by one M'K'Nz'Y of Calhoun or as he prefers to be called Mackenzie Calhoun.

This man is one seroius badass, he led a sucessful rebellion on his home planet before he was even 20. Picard recruited him to join Starfleet back when he was on the Stargazer. He has been doing shady work for Starfleet since then and is supposedly close to edge of insanity.

On his cre his Elizabeth Shelby (from BoBW), a half-vulcan/half-romulan. and Dr Selar (from TNG) Whose hubbie had a heart attack in the middle of pon farr.

And fuck it the 1st book ends in a FUCKING CLIFFHANGER and it pisses me off since i can't find the 2nd one anywhere.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-07-28 08:05am

Sounds worth checking out; I'd need to prowl the used bookstores though... Thanks.

Any other information?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-07-28 08:24am

Stofsk wrote:Sounds worth checking out; I'd need to prowl the used bookstores though... Thanks.

Any other information?

Calhoun has some fantastic lines regarding love, war, and time travel

.

I know it's not much help, but he is what I consider a true captain in a wrong time. He's not PC about the Federation nor is he Captain Kirk part Deux.

All in all if you like the TNG era of what is, but want to see a perspective the shows never really did cover in terms of how some phenomena is dealt with in a more...human way. You'll like Calhoun. That and he's respected yet hated by virtually every Federation captain...including Picard.

It's fun stuff

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-07-28 11:48am

Can you elaborate - erm, try without spoiling too much

- why he's despised by every SF captain? It sounds like PAD has created a monster.

I might pick it up if I can find the books. IIRC there was a omnibus which had the first 4 novels wrapped into one. If I can find that (have to hit the used book stores though)...

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-07-28 12:09pm

Stofsk wrote:Can you elaborate - erm, try without spoiling too much - why he's despised by every SF captain? It sounds like PAD has created a monster.

He's gung ho...and uses force when needed(or when he thinks is needed).

Literally he'll threaten enemies, and if need be shoot them down and negotiation is for when he's in charge or in a superior position.

I might pick it up if I can find the books. IIRC there was a omnibus which had the first 4 novels wrapped into one. If I can find that (have to hit the used book stores though)...

Yep...pretty good start.

Joe Momma · Post by **Joe Momma** » 2004-07-28 02:21pm

If you get the latest hardback (Stone and Anvil), there's a CD inside with most of the previous books on it in adobe ebook format. The CD has everything but the last paperback (Gods Above) and the trade paperback anthology (No Limits). I don't recall if it has the one-shot comic book, though.

As far as comparing the two authors, I think PAD's better at handling character interaction (there are moments in Zahn's work where the characters' expressions of feeling seem a little forced, for example), though sometimes it seems like he's trying too hard to set up funny one-liners and cool character moments.

I think PAD also introduces a little bit more of a fantasy element into his New Frontier stories than is traditional for ST stories, though certainly not without good precedents. All of the characters he's created for the New Frontier (as opposed to the many pre-existing ST characters he's borrowed) tend to have unusual backgrounds, which makes for a more eclectic group of characters. It seemed a little odd to me at first that all of these characters would have such special origins, but it actually encourages a view of diversity in an interplanetary organization that extends beyond a variety of Earthlings with a token alien.

Still, I think Zahn's books had a bigger impact on revitalizing interest in SW and minimalism aside are probably closer to the tradition of the source material. Not that I can blame PAD for straying in that regard. I do like the intracacy of Zahn's books a bit more, though I'm sure part of that is inherent to using a much bigger plaground than PAD does.

-- Joe Momma

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-07-30 01:18pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
Bob the Gunslinger wrote:
Also, what does the A in PAD stand for, and how do you know him?
Allen.

Many comic book conventions and treating him to a few free lunches. Guy has many fun stories.

Huh... I've met him at a couple conventions, but I never really though about taking out to lunch or really trying to get to know him.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-07-30 01:19pm

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
Bob the Gunslinger wrote:
Also, what does the A in PAD stand for, and how do you know him?
Allen.

Many comic book conventions and treating him to a few free lunches. Guy has many fun stories.
Huh... I've met him at a couple conventions, but I never really though about taking out to lunch or really trying to get to know him.

I actually get to si behind a booth when I get off my duff and help out some indie comics.

Thus I get to chat with him a lot easier then coming up to him as a fan after three long days of conventioning

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-07-30 01:20pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
He's gung ho...and uses force when needed(or when he thinks is needed).

Literally he'll threaten enemies, and if need be shoot them down and negotiation is for when he's in charge or in a superior position.

Sounds like he should be really popular on this board.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-07-30 01:36pm

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
He's gung ho...and uses force when needed(or when he thinks is needed).

Literally he'll threaten enemies, and if need be shoot them down and negotiation is for when he's in charge or in a superior position.

Sounds like he should be really popular on this board.

Most likely.

But like JM said...get that format for easy access.

Seriously Calhoun is a Starfleet officer yet he's actually man enough to be something of Kirk of that era.

ReinnResauq · Post by **ReinnResauq** » 2004-08-02 11:29am

I've read one Peter David book, the novelization of the first Spider-Man movie. That book read like a fucking christian movie tie-in. If I'd made the mistake of reading the book before seeing the movie, I probably would have gone to the lines for the first movie and screamed "What the hell are you doing? It's Spider-Man meets the 700 Club!"

I'm nervous about buying the novelization of the second movie because it's written by him. He almost ruined the first movie for me and the second one had a lot more doubt and incertainty, it would be easy for a christian zealot to swerve it to a christian note.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-08-02 12:57pm

ReinnResauq wrote:I've read one Peter David book, the novelization of the first Spider-Man movie. That book read like a fucking christian movie tie-in. If I'd made the mistake of reading the book before seeing the movie, I probably would have gone to the lines for the first movie and screamed "What the hell are you doing? It's Spider-Man meets the 700 Club!"

I'm nervous about buying the novelization of the second movie because it's written by him. He almost ruined the first movie for me and the second one had a lot more doubt and incertainty, it would be easy for a christian zealot to swerve it to a christian note.

Oro? Where the hell did that come from?

Considering that I've read just about every Peter David Book in existence, I think your take on the situation is more than slightly exagerrated. For one thing, novelisations aren't the best way to get a feel for an author's writing style.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-08-02 02:38pm

Huh... I've read lots of his books and comics and never even noticed any christian influence at all. Not even the word "Christian," as far as I remember.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-08-02 02:44pm

That and PAD is an avowed Agnostic could be that thought.

Funnily enough some have complained that his novelization wasn't as good for the first...though the second was done better.

All in all I wonder why you would base his writing around one book...I mean might as well judge Stephen King off of Kujo.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-08-02 05:48pm

Hell, the man attributes the Holy Grail as being the source of Jesus's power in one of his books, and claims that Noah was an archeypal character based off of another guy who actually did the whole Ark bit.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-08-02 06:09pm

Ghost Rider wrote:That and PAD is an avowed Agnostic could be that thought.

Funnily enough some have complained that his novelization wasn't as good for the first...though the second was done better.

All in all I wonder why you would base his writing around one book...I mean might as well judge Stephen King off of Kujo.

Better than Dreamcatcher...