DAMN! Did anyone just see The Daily Show?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-08-02 11:32pm

Stewart grilled Henry Bonilla. The guy's a fake news anchor, and yet I think he's demonstrated more balls than the entire "liberal media" combined.

Phil Skayhan · Post by **Phil Skayhan** » 2004-08-02 11:46pm

I'll have to catch the repeat later tonight.

Thag · Post by **Thag** » 2004-08-02 11:51pm

Can you give more details? I don't have cable right now.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-08-03 12:36am

Bonilla was a part of the Republican "Rapid Response Squad" at the DNC. He was talking about how John Kerry was the "Number 1 Ranked" liberal in the Senate, and bumbled the his responses to Stewart's challenge for him to define what exactly that means and who comes up with that ranking. After Bonilla couldn't tell him which organization came up with those rankings, he informed him (The Journal Star, I believe), and that throughout his record, Kerry has actually been to the right of Kennedy, and that Edwards has been to the left of Kerry. He shut the guy up.

The other fun part was when Bonilla was ranting about how Kerry's positions were unclear and that he wanted voters to make decisions for themselves. He finally asked what he could do to make Stewart happy, to which Stewart replied, "Don't have these 'Rapid Response Squads'."

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2004-08-03 01:23am

You forgot the interview of the Florida State Representative. Homonauseic? HAHA

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-08-03 01:25am

Xenophobe3691 wrote:You forgot the interview of the Florida State Representative. Homonauseic? HAHA

What about the "double intamatandres" or whatever he called them?

That had to be one of the funniest pieces they've ever done.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-08-03 01:29am

Whoa. Hilarious and scathing.

I can't believe the guy kept his cool.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2004-08-03 01:38am

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Whoa. Hilarious and scathing.

I can't believe the guy kept his cool.

That man's son is gonna have some damn impressed friends at school. And even more impressed that he could keep his cool...

And the cowboy boots were an excellent touch, I must say

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2004-08-03 01:58am

Kerry may or may not be the '#1 ranked liberal', but his lifetime ADA voting record score of 92 makes it clear that he is one of the most liberal members of the Senate.

ADA voting records for Kerry and Edwards

After Bonilla couldn't tell him which organization came up with those rankings, he informed him (The Journal Star, I believe), and that throughout his record, Kerry has actually been to the right of Kennedy, and that Edwards has been to the left of Kerry. He shut the guy up.

Not true on both counts.

Kennedy's lifetime ADA rating is 90. Kerry's is 92. Some years Kennedy voted more liberal than Kerry and vice versa, but Kerry's average 'LQ' is higher than Teddy's.

Source

Kerry's rating of 92 is also higher of Edwards' average of 88. Source is the 'Kerry and Edwards' link above.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-08-03 02:21am

These "ratings" are ridiculous. Just more sad evidence of the mindless manner in which politics in the US has degenerated into a gigantic black/white fallacy. The idea that you can classify a vote as either "liberal" or "conservative" and then add up these votes to determine where someone sits on this openly one-dimensional political spectrum is just sickening.

Almost as sickening as the unabashed existence of "rapid response teams" to attack political statements made by the other side.

LMSx · Post by **LMSx** » 2004-08-03 05:08am

Glocksman wrote:*snip*

An interesting email from AndrewSullivan.com:

EMAIL OF THE DAY: "I'm growing a bit frustrated with the media, including you, running with this Kerry and Edwards being the first and fourth most liberal Senators. Everyone is citing the National Journal's ratings but they are doing it sloppily. I have seen no recent article that cites anything but the 2003 ratings where Kerry missed 37 and Edwards missed 22 of 62 votes and both were setting themselves up for primary battles where their base was essential. Think what you may about missing votes and pandering a bit (seems suicide to not do both when going for the nomination), but my larger point is the media should be looking at this much more historically and in years when Edwards and Kerry actually showed up to do their jobs. I'll do it for them. Following are rankings and liberal scores since 1999.

2003: Kerry - 1st (96.5) Edwards - 4th (94.5)
2002: Kerry - 9th (87.3) Edwards - 31st (63.0) Edwards made the centrist list.
2001: Kerry - 11th (87.7) Edwards - 35th (68.2) Edwards almost tied with Lieberman.
2000: Kerry - 20th (77) Edwards - 19th (80.8) Rankings past 20 are not available nor are composite scores for all Senators, so Kerry is 21st or higher.
1999: Kerry - 16th (80.8) Edwards - 31st (72.2)

Average: Kerry - 12th (85.9) Edwards - 24th (75.7)

Now this paints a different picture. Certainly Kerry is a stalwart liberal (although probably not or barely a top 10 liberal), but he does hail from and represent one of the most liberal states. But Edwards is definitely a moderate Democrat (if you define that as somewhere in the ideological middle of the Democratic platform).

Do I have a point?" Yep, I think this reader has a point. More points on the Letters Page.
- 4:41:23 PM

Way to shift the goalposts. Suddenly it's getting out in the media that the National Journal rankings point at a more moderate Kerry/Edwards voting history, and miraculously, out of nowhere, another ranking journal emerges that shows that indeed, Kerry is most liberal, case closed thankyouverymuch.

The very fact that you have to selectively pick and choose which journal "proved" that Kerry is most liberal is evidence that it's a meaningless argument.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-08-03 09:10am

Glocksman wrote:Kerry may or may not be the '#1 ranked liberal', but his lifetime ADA voting record score of 92 makes it clear that he is one of the most liberal members of the Senate.

ADA voting records for Kerry and Edwards

After Bonilla couldn't tell him which organization came up with those rankings, he informed him (The Journal Star, I believe), and that throughout his record, Kerry has actually been to the right of Kennedy, and that Edwards has been to the left of Kerry. He shut the guy up.
Not true on both counts.

Kennedy's lifetime ADA rating is 90. Kerry's is 92. Some years Kennedy voted more liberal than Kerry and vice versa, but Kerry's average 'LQ' is higher than Teddy's.

Source

Kerry's rating of 92 is also higher of Edwards' average of 88. Source is the 'Kerry and Edwards' link above.

And another organization (The National Journal, in this case) disagrees. These ratings are completely arbitrary bullshit, and that was Jon Stewart's point.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2004-08-03 09:34am

The sweat on Bonilla's brow was the best thing I've seen in a very, very long time. Stewart showed that an interviewer can indeed repeatedly and stridently demand that the subject answer his questions without losing his audience. That was fucking high-art, and I really couldn't be more impressed.

Stewart-"What groups?"

Bonilla-"Groups"

Stewart-"What groups?"

Bonilla-"Groups"

Zac Naloen · Post by **Zac Naloen** » 2004-08-03 09:38am

Dunno if you guys follow british politics or not. But Jeremy Paxman (sp?) Asked one government representative the same question 13 times once.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2004-08-03 10:16am

Zac Naloen wrote:Dunno if you guys follow british politics or not. But Jeremy Paxman (sp?) Asked one government representative the same question 13 times once.

Newsnight, such amusement.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2004-08-03 10:46am

Way to shift the goalposts. Suddenly it's getting out in the media that the National Journal rankings point at a more moderate Kerry/Edwards voting history, and miraculously, out of nowhere, another ranking journal emerges that shows that indeed, Kerry is most liberal, case closed thankyouverymuch.

'

Umm.....

The Americans for Democratic Action organization has been around since the mid 1940's and is generally acknowledged as one of the premiere liberal lobbying groups. They didn't 'emerge out of nowhere' just to score Kerry as a liberal. His voting record does that all on its own.

If you're really interested in how the ADA scores members of Congress, they have a detailed explanation of which votes each year are used to arrive at the score.

A way to cross check the ADA scoring is to compare their conservative counterpart group's scores. The American Conservative Union is the ADA's counterpart, and they have a lifetime score (higher is more conservative) of 12 for Edwards and 5 for Kerry.

Given that 2 respected ideological lobbying groups have both rated Kerry as extremely liberal and more liberal than his running mate, I think I'll trust the ADA and ACU over the 'National Journal'.

Not that I support Dubya either.
No matter if Kerry or Bush wins in November, the country loses.

I'm sticking to my plan to write in a vote for Howard Dean.

Zac Naloen · Post by **Zac Naloen** » 2004-08-03 10:47am

Keevan_Colton wrote:
Zac Naloen wrote:Dunno if you guys follow british politics or not. But Jeremy Paxman (sp?) Asked one government representative the same question 13 times once.
Newsnight, such amusement.

Yeh, that was it, can you remember the guys name?

It was hilarious.

"did you or did you not say..."

"well, the question is more..."

"did you or didn't you..."

"well, to answer your question ten minutes ago"

*repeat X 12*

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2004-08-03 10:50am

Darth Wong wrote:These "ratings" are ridiculous. Just more sad evidence of the mindless manner in which politics in the US has degenerated into a gigantic black/white fallacy. The idea that you can classify a vote as either "liberal" or "conservative" and then add up these votes to determine where someone sits on this openly one-dimensional political spectrum is just sickening.

Almost as sickening as the unabashed existence of "rapid response teams" to attack political statements made by the other side.

These scores aren't the be-all and end-all of choosing a candidate to support, but by both looking at the scores and what votes in Congress were used to calculate them, they do give you an idea where a candidate stands compared to your own views.

In other words the scores are useful as part of a package of research on a candidate, but shouldn't be used by themselves.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2004-08-03 11:46am

How can Kerry be such a flip flopper and at the same time consistently liberal?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-08-03 12:04pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:How can Kerry be such a flip flopper and at the same time consistently liberal?

In 1994, John Kerry was fifty years old. Now, in 2004, he's sixty. Why can't John Kerry pick an age and stick with it? Do we really want that kind of indecisiveness leading our great nation?

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2004-08-03 12:13pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:How can Kerry be such a flip flopper and at the same time consistently liberal?

Because he's not a flip flopper. 10 years does not constitute a short span of time by political reckoning.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-08-03 12:29pm

"Mister Kerry had bacon and eggs for breakfast yesterday, but he had Frosted Flakes today! Tony the Tiger, what do you have to say about this heinous flip-flop?"

"They're GR-R-R-R-REAT!"

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-08-03 12:37pm

Iceberg wrote:"Mister Kerry had bacon and eggs for breakfast yesterday, but he had Frosted Flakes today! Tony the Tiger, what do you have to say about this heinous flip-flop?"

"They're GR-R-R-R-REAT!"

*Lucky Charms Leprechaun throws his hat to the ground in disgust*

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2004-08-03 12:42pm

But...But...But Cornflakes and Frosted Flakes used to be Conservative! They were the cure for...for...Masturbation!

Tony the Tiger is a heinous flip flopper in conspiracy with Kerry!

Mark S · Post by **Mark S** » 2004-08-03 01:04pm

I thought John Stewart was great. Every time Bonilla said something about Kerry or Edwards, Stewart threw in the buzzword media bite for it. "He's a flip-flopper" "He's inexperienced" And after playing dumb about the 'groups' thing Steward finally turns around and goes, "Alright, I'll tell you who they are..." and slaps Bonilla in the face with the answer. Beautiful.

And the Double Intenduendos guy...

Notice how the interviewer didn't even have to make fun of him as much as usual. He did it all himself.