We don't do Politics in Dept of Homeland Security

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We don't do Politics in Dept of Homeland Security

Post by Stravo »


White House - AP
AP
Ridge Defends New Terror Threat Warning


By KATHERINE PFLEGER SHRADER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge on Tuesday defended the decision to tighten security in New York and Washington even though the intelligence behind the latest terror warnings was as much as four years old.

Law enforcement officials were trying to determine whether the plot was current, with terrorists still trying to organize such an attack — in an investigation made more urgent by revelations linking the suspect behind the intelligence with the 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in east Africa.

In those devastating truck bombings, al-Qaida operatives had begun casing targets in Kenya almost five years in advance.

The warnings that terrorists might be plotting attacks on specific buildings in New York, Washington and Newark, N.J., have prompted authorities to elevate the terror alert level for the financial sector in those cities to orange, or high. Streets have been closed, with barricades erected and heavily armed police guarding potential targets.

The intelligence behind the warnings — including hundreds of detailed surveillance photos, sketches and written documents — came from sources including a seized laptop and computer discs and from interviews after the mid-July arrest of a young Pakistani computer engineer, Mohammad Naeem Noor Khan.

Federal investigators are working on the assumption that the plot is continuing, said a senior Justice Department (news - web sites) official, speaking on condition of anonymity. Two counterterrorism officials, also speaking anonymously, said information and evidence uncovered suggests that terrorists were recently using the information from surveillance activities.

And top Bush administration officials said pieces of the surveillance — including images — were apparently updated as recently as this January, although they offered no specific details.

"I think you have to keep in mind al-Qaida's history of planning attacks well in advance and then updating those plans just before attacking," said White House spokesman Scott McClellan, traveling with President Bush (news - web sites) on a trip to Texas.

Administration officials denied any suggestion that raising the terror alert right after the Democratic National Convention was politically motivated. "We don't do politics in the Department of Homeland Security," Ridge said.

He said it was essential to release the information, which had just been uncovered in Pakistan. Speaking at a news conference in New York, Ridge said that because of the heightened security steps, "we have made it much more difficult for the terrorists to achieve their broad objectives."

Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry (news - web sites), who received a special intelligence briefing on the terror threat Sunday, ducked the question when asked whether he, as president, would he have authorized his homeland security chief to issue the same warning as Ridge.

"Senator Kerry never comments directly or indirectly on the information he receives in intelligence briefings," spokeswoman Debra DeShong said Tuesday.

On Sunday, when the terror alert was issued — mentioning the Citigroup Center building and the New York Stock Exchange (news - web sites) in New York, the International Monetary Fund (news - web sites) and World Bank (news - web sites) buildings in Washington and Prudential Financial Inc.'s headquarters in Newark, N.J. — officials acknowledged that some of the information was at least several years old, some of it preceding the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

In addition to the five buildings, one of the counterterrorism officials said the information included references to the Nasdaq and American Stock Exchange buildings in New York and the Bank of America building in San Francisco. Two other facilities in New York and undisclosed buildings in Washington and New Jersey were also mentioned.

But even with the extensive amounts of information, a full outline of a plot was not included, one official said. Instead, authorities are following leads. For instance, another official said surveillance reports were written in English, indicating the author spent significant time in the West.

And many of the paper documents showing the surveillance of U.S. buildings were undated, meaning investigators must work backward to match particular descriptions of security with known details of security at the buildings at certain points in time to determine when the documents were created.

One link under investigation is between Khan, the source of the surveillance documents, and the 1998 bombings in Kenya and Tanzania that killed more than 200 people, said the Justice Department official.



Shortly after Khan was captured, Pakistani police arrested Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani, a Tanzanian sought by U.S. officials for the 1998 bombings in east Africa. There was a $25 million bounty for his capture.

Under questioning, Ghailani — who is cooperating with investigators — corroborated the material that was found in the surveillance documents, said the senior Justice Department official.

Ridge said there was no indication that terrorists had infiltrated the financial institutions themselves to obtain information about them. That view was echoed Tuesday by a World Bank spokesman, Damian Milverton.

"There is no suggestion that al-Qaida penetrated the building here at all," Milverton said.

But the Justice official said there are indications that the surveillance was detailed enough that people who work in the buildings might have knowingly or unknowingly assisted — perhaps by inadvertently giving out information.

The raising of the terror alert so far has not become a major issue in the presidential campaign.

But Larry Johnson, a former State Department deputy chief of counterterrorism, said the information about possible attacks is too vague to be useful and could lead to "warning fatigue."

"This is like the fifth time we've been warned that the end is imminent," he said. "Then it passes and nothing happens and what I fear is that people are going to become increasingly jaded about it."

____

Associated Press writer Ted Bridis contributed to this report.
The latests surveiullance photos were updated back in January?! Ok, looks like my cynical take on this latest alert are starting to pan out.

If anyone saw Ridge's speech during the alert where he praises Bush's leadership for making the country safer it screams in the face of this retarded statement by Ridge that the Dept of Homeland security doesn't do politics.
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Re: We don't do Politics in Dept of Homeland Security

Post by Talon Karrde »

Stravo wrote: The latests surveiullance photos were updated back in January?! Ok, looks like my cynical take on this latest alert are starting to pan out.

If anyone saw Ridge's speech during the alert where he praises Bush's leadership for making the country safer it screams in the face of this retarded statement by Ridge that the Dept of Homeland security doesn't do politics.
Wel congratulations, you've joined the Howard Dean conspiracy theory movement. Even the liberals precious Bill Clinton said that it was necessary to raise the terror alert. It seems every time it's raised anymore people get cynical. Would you rather not raise it and see if the terrorists strike? I don't know about you, but 9/11 kinda told me we needed to be more careful when it came to terrorists.

Also, tell me. How does a potential terrorist threat help President Bush exactly?

You point to Ridge's speech of explanation as proving that it was politically motivated. Perhaps you forget that they are coming under fire from the left about using terrorism for political reasons. It would only be natural for him to defend Bush. :roll:
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Re: We don't do Politics in Dept of Homeland Security

Post by Gandalf »

Talon Karrde wrote:Also, tell me. How does a potential terrorist threat help President Bush exactly?
*shrugs*

It helped Hitler.
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Re: We don't do Politics in Dept of Homeland Security

Post by Talon Karrde »

Gandalf wrote:
Talon Karrde wrote:Also, tell me. How does a potential terrorist threat help President Bush exactly?
*shrugs*

It helped Hitler.
Didn't answer my question.
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Re: We don't do Politics in Dept of Homeland Security

Post by Crown »

Stravo wrote:

White House - AP
AP
Ridge Defends New Terror Threat Warning
<snip>
The latests surveiullance photos were updated back in January?! Ok, looks like my cynical take on this latest alert are starting to pan out.

If anyone saw Ridge's speech during the alert where he praises Bush's leadership for making the country safer it screams in the face of this retarded statement by Ridge that the Dept of Homeland security doesn't do politics.
:lol:

Stravo, you missed the bigger irony. He was praising Bush for his leadership in making America safer while increasing the threat level! :lol:

Alarm bells are ringing people :!: (pardon the pun)
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Re: We don't do Politics in Dept of Homeland Security

Post by Talon Karrde »

Crown wrote:
Stravo wrote:

White House - AP
AP
Ridge Defends New Terror Threat Warning
<snip>
The latests surveiullance photos were updated back in January?! Ok, looks like my cynical take on this latest alert are starting to pan out.

If anyone saw Ridge's speech during the alert where he praises Bush's leadership for making the country safer it screams in the face of this retarded statement by Ridge that the Dept of Homeland security doesn't do politics.
:lol:

Stravo, you missed the bigger irony. He was praising Bush for his leadership in making America safer while increasing the threat level! :lol:

Alarm bells are ringing people :!: (pardon the pun)
Did it occur to you that raising the terror alert better protects America? When terrorists know that America is on to them, don't you think it's less likely that they will attack? Call me crazy but I thought that was pretty self-explanatory. :?
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Re: We don't do Politics in Dept of Homeland Security

Post by Crown »

Talon Karrde wrote:
Crown wrote::lol:

Stravo, you missed the bigger irony. He was praising Bush for his leadership in making America safer while increasing the threat level! :lol:

Alarm bells are ringing people :!: (pardon the pun)
Did it occur to you that raising the terror alert better protects America? When terrorists know that America is on to them, don't you think it's less likely that they will attack? Call me crazy but I thought that was pretty self-explanatory. :?
Am I missing the sarcasm/wit/irony here :?:

Or are you being serious :?:
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Re: We don't do Politics in Dept of Homeland Security

Post by Talon Karrde »

Crown wrote:
Talon Karrde wrote:
Crown wrote::lol:

Stravo, you missed the bigger irony. He was praising Bush for his leadership in making America safer while increasing the threat level! :lol:

Alarm bells are ringing people :!: (pardon the pun)
Did it occur to you that raising the terror alert better protects America? When terrorists know that America is on to them, don't you think it's less likely that they will attack? Call me crazy but I thought that was pretty self-explanatory. :?
Am I missing the sarcasm/wit/irony here :?:

Or are you being serious :?:
Your kidding right? Why do you raise the terror alert? To alert Americans that terrorists are planning on harming them. Your trying to tell me this doesn't make America safer?
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Re: We don't do Politics in Dept of Homeland Security

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Talon Karrde wrote:Your kidding right? Why do you raise the terror alert? To alert Americans that terrorists are planning on harming them. Your trying to tell me this doesn't make America safer?
Holly fucking symptom before the disease batman! :shock:

You sir are an idiot.

If the holly than thou President Bush the lesser were making America safer, the threat level would be going down. Not being raised.

This isn't fucking complicated; Safer America = decrease in threat level. Conversely; America under threat = increase in threat level.

You're argueing that President Bush has made America safer by warning it that it is in danger, which only in a society where you require safety labels for irons (do not iron clothes while wearing them) could it be a valid arguement. Everyone else with a functional brain would see the inherent contradiction between the statement and the action. :roll:
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Re: We don't do Politics in Dept of Homeland Security

Post by Talon Karrde »

Crown wrote:
Talon Karrde wrote:Your kidding right? Why do you raise the terror alert? To alert Americans that terrorists are planning on harming them. Your trying to tell me this doesn't make America safer?
Holly fucking symptom before the disease batman! :shock:

You sir are an idiot.

If the holly than thou President Bush the lesser were making America safer, the threat level would be going down. Not being raised.

This isn't fucking complicated; Safer America = decrease in threat level. Conversely; America under threat = increase in threat level.

You're argueing that President Bush has made America safer by warning it that it is in danger, which only in a society where you require safety labels for irons (do not iron clothes while wearing them) could it be a valid arguement. Everyone else with a functional brain would see the inherent contradiction between the statement and the action. :roll:
ROFL. You think the terrorist problem this country faces will just dissapear overnight? You think in just 3 years since 9/11, Bush should have wiped the planet clean of terrorists? I'd like to see someone who could have done that.

Well I guess since my brain is incompetant to your own, you probably won't read my reply with any real weight put to it, but none the less, you fail to see my point. Do you claim it's Bush's fault that our country is now a terrorist target??
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Re: We don't do Politics in Dept of Homeland Security

Post by Gandalf »

Talon Karrde wrote:
Gandalf wrote:
Talon Karrde wrote:Also, tell me. How does a potential terrorist threat help President Bush exactly?
*shrugs*

It helped Hitler.
Didn't answer my question.
You are familiar with Hitler right? After the Reichstag was attacked by a communist he enabled a "Defense of The Fatherland Act" (Or words to that effect.) Essentially giving the government more power and such.

As for Bush: After the events of 9/11, he was able to rally enough patriotism to get the PATRIOT act passed. He's been able to push his puritan agenda most vehemently. And it also allowed him to launch an illegal invasion of Iraq, because he claimed that Al-Qaeda had been in cahoots with Saddam, then some WMD crap when the first claims didn't fly too well.
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Re: We don't do Politics in Dept of Homeland Security

Post by Talon Karrde »

Gandalf wrote:
Talon Karrde wrote:
Gandalf wrote: *shrugs*

It helped Hitler.
Didn't answer my question.
You are familiar with Hitler right? After the Reichstag was attacked by a communist he enabled a "Defense of The Fatherland Act" (Or words to that effect.) Essentially giving the government more power and such.

As for Bush: After the events of 9/11, he was able to rally enough patriotism to get the PATRIOT act passed. He's been able to push his puritan agenda most vehemently. And it also allowed him to launch an illegal invasion of Iraq, because he claimed that Al-Qaeda had been in cahoots with Saddam, then some WMD crap when the first claims didn't fly too well.
Ok, but how does this help him now? Liberals are claiming this is helping Bush's re-election chances.
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Re: We don't do Politics in Dept of Homeland Security

Post by Crown »

Talon Karrde wrote:ROFL. You think the terrorist problem this country faces will just dissapear overnight?
No. Have I ever showed any indication where I implied that in the most delusional moronic inferal of an idiot like you? If so; quote me.
Talon Karrde wrote:You think in just 3 years since 9/11, Bush should have wiped the planet clean of terrorists?
As above. Although on a complete red herring, I would have thought Bush to concentrate more on the real enemy (you know Al Qaeda) than Iraq, but hey.
Talon Karrde wrote:I'd like to see someone who could have done that.
So would I, let you in on a little secret, it wasn't Bush.
Talon Karrde wrote:Well I guess since my brain is incompetant to your own,
An apt self diagnosis.
Talon Karrde wrote:you probably won't read my reply with any real weight put to it, but none the less, you fail to see my point.
You have no point. Your 'point' was Bush has made the America safer (to run with disease/symptom analogy of my previous post) from the common cold by being able to 'gauge' when it would most likely be at its highest occurance.

What he has failed to do is - oh I don't know - immunise the population against the disease.

Hence my analogy.
Talon Karrde wrote:Do you claim it's Bush's fault that our country is now a terrorist target??
Strawman.

I claim that I find it particularly ironic that anyone can say that 'Bush has made our country safer' and keep a straight face while delivering a fucking press statement detailing how the country should be on a heightened state of anxiety over the possiblity of a new terrorist attack. Or are you too dense (again) to fucking understand how that action is plainly ironic. :?:
Dictionary.com wrote:i·ron·ic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-rnk) also i·ron·i·cal (-rn-kl)
adj.
  1. Characterized by or constituting irony.
  2. Given to the use of irony. See Synonyms at sarcastic.
  3. Poignantly contrary to what was expected or intended: madness, an ironic fate for such a clear thinker.
Jeesus fucking Christ! :roll:
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Re: We don't do Politics in Dept of Homeland Security

Post by Talon Karrde »

Crown wrote:No. Have I ever showed any indication where I implied that in the most delusional moronic inferal of an idiot like you? If so; quote me.
You act like just because the terror alert is raised, our country is not safe. The reason the terror alert was instated was to MAKE the country safer, not the other way around.
As above. Although on a complete red herring, I would have thought Bush to concentrate more on the real enemy (you know Al Qaeda) than Iraq, but hey.
I see your point here, and I see that as a difference of foreign policy opinion. Where as I look at liberating Iraq as a positive thing, you look at it as a waste of time and political disaster.
An apt self diagnosis.
Incorrect. I believe it was you who said, "Everyone else with a functional brain would see the inherent contradiction between the statement and the action."

[quoteYou have no point. Your 'point' was Bush has made the America safer (to run with disease/symptom analogy of my previous post) from the common cold by being able to 'gauge' when it would most likely be at its highest occurance.[/quote]I'm saying thats a part of it. Bush has greatly crippled Al-Qaeda operations. I don't think you can deny that.

What I'm saying about raising the terror alert is this. When you raise it the terrorists REALIZE that the government is on to them, and thus, are less likely to attack. Why is this so hard to understand?
What he has failed to do is - oh I don't know - immunise the population against the disease.

Hence my analogy.
Again, this doesn't happen overnight. Using your analogy, he is currently fighting the disease and looking for a cure.

I claim that I find it particularly ironic that anyone can say that 'Bush has made our country safer' and keep a straight face while delivering a fucking press statement detailing how the country should be on a heightened state of anxiety over the possiblity of a new terrorist attack. Or are you too dense (again) to fucking understand how that action is plainly ironic. :?:
Perhaps you choose to ignore the fact that when we take the fight to terrorists, they are going to want to fight back. Again, it seems that you think Bush is incompetant because terrorism is still a threat today.
Jeesus fucking Christ! :roll:
Oh boy, now he's angry. :roll:
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Re: We don't do Politics in Dept of Homeland Security

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Talon Karrde wrote:Ok, but how does this help him now? Liberals are claiming this is helping Bush's re-election chances.
How many people have you heard say things along the lines of: "It's bad to change Presidents in the middle of a war"?

Also, the puritan raving I mentioned, they've kept people like the Christian Right on his side. From what I've read, they hold quite an amount of sway over the voters. Through manipulation of this, he can equate others to terrorists. Eg: Ann Coulter relating pro-abortionists to terrorists. Few people will vote against their gods.
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Re: We don't do Politics in Dept of Homeland Security

Post by Talon Karrde »

Gandalf wrote:
Talon Karrde wrote:Ok, but how does this help him now? Liberals are claiming this is helping Bush's re-election chances.
How many people have you heard say things along the lines of: "It's bad to change Presidents in the middle of a war"?

Also, the puritan raving I mentioned, they've kept people like the Christian Right on his side. From what I've read, they hold quite an amount of sway over the voters. Through manipulation of this, he can equate others to terrorists. Eg: Ann Coulter relating pro-abortionists to terrorists. Few people will vote against their gods.
Well, according to the argument I'm having with Crown in this same thread, this should hurt Bush, not help him. Kinda weird how it goes both ways.
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Re: We don't do Politics in Dept of Homeland Security

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Talon Karrde wrote:
Gandalf wrote:
Talon Karrde wrote:Ok, but how does this help him now? Liberals are claiming this is helping Bush's re-election chances.
How many people have you heard say things along the lines of: "It's bad to change Presidents in the middle of a war"?

Also, the puritan raving I mentioned, they've kept people like the Christian Right on his side. From what I've read, they hold quite an amount of sway over the voters. Through manipulation of this, he can equate others to terrorists. Eg: Ann Coulter relating pro-abortionists to terrorists. Few people will vote against their gods.
Well, according to the argument I'm having with Crown in this same thread, this should hurt Bush, not help him. Kinda weird how it goes both ways.
You're not answering my question.
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Re: We don't do Politics in Dept of Homeland Security

Post by Talon Karrde »

Gandalf wrote:
Talon Karrde wrote:
Gandalf wrote: How many people have you heard say things along the lines of: "It's bad to change Presidents in the middle of a war"?

Also, the puritan raving I mentioned, they've kept people like the Christian Right on his side. From what I've read, they hold quite an amount of sway over the voters. Through manipulation of this, he can equate others to terrorists. Eg: Ann Coulter relating pro-abortionists to terrorists. Few people will vote against their gods.
Well, according to the argument I'm having with Crown in this same thread, this should hurt Bush, not help him. Kinda weird how it goes both ways.
Sorry, didn't mean to ignore iyour question, just wanted to point out that this argument seems to go whatever way liberals want it to.

And yes, I've heard that statement. But we are ALREADY in the war, another terrorist attack doesn't initiate another war.



You're not answering my question.
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Post by Talon Karrde »

CRAP. That post got screwed up.
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Re: We don't do Politics in Dept of Homeland Security

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Talon Karrde wrote:
Gandalf wrote:
Talon Karrde wrote:Ok, but how does this help him now? Liberals are claiming this is helping Bush's re-election chances.
How many people have you heard say things along the lines of: "It's bad to change Presidents in the middle of a war"?

Also, the puritan raving I mentioned, they've kept people like the Christian Right on his side. From what I've read, they hold quite an amount of sway over the voters. Through manipulation of this, he can equate others to terrorists. Eg: Ann Coulter relating pro-abortionists to terrorists. Few people will vote against their gods.
Well, according to the argument I'm having with Crown in this same thread, this should hurt Bush, not help him. Kinda weird how it goes both ways.
An increased terror alert helps Bush by keeping the populace fearful, and a fearful populace will more likely want heavy-handed action (along with a dose of self-righteousness), which is something ole Dubya can give them.

The irony that Crown pointed out is that Bush wants the people to believe that he's made them safer, but he doesn't want them to feel so safe that they don't think they need him anymore.
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Post by Gandalf »

Talon Karrde wrote:CRAP. That post got screwed up.
That's cool. It seems to happen a lot on this type of forum.
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Re: We don't do Politics in Dept of Homeland Security

Post by Crown »

Talon Karrde wrote:You act like just because the terror alert is raised, our country is not safe. The reason the terror alert was instated was to MAKE the country safer, not the other way around.
Circular logic. The terror alert is raised; because there is new information suggesting a terrorist strike. It is a reactionary fucking scale you dipshit. You don't raise it willy-nilly ... or do you? :wtf:
Talon Karrde wrote:Incorrect. I believe it was you who said, "Everyone else with a functional brain would see the inherent contradiction between the statement and the action."
And your rebutle was ... where? Exactly?

Talon Karrde wrote:I'm saying thats a part of it. Bush has greatly crippled Al-Qaeda operations. I don't think you can deny that.
Most people are freely admitting that Al Qaeda has managed to re-group between the invasion of Afganistan and now.

And I'll point out that the frequency of terrorists attacks by Al Qaeda (or their affiliates) against US interests has increased, just turn on the nightly news.
Talon Karrde wrote:What I'm saying about raising the terror alert is this. When you raise it the terrorists REALIZE that the government is on to them, and thus, are less likely to attack. Why is this so hard to understand?
:banghead:

I fucking said it was 'ironic' you moron. I quoted the definition of irony for you, are you too fucking dense to even try and understand it?
Talon Karrde wrote:Again, this doesn't happen overnight. Using your analogy, he is currently fighting the disease and looking for a cure.
Rubbish. He is fighting the disease by warning you that you might catch it (after all we are discussing the head of Homeland Security delivering as speach about a hightened terror alert, raising the threat level, and then praising Bush for making America safer) - which is fucking ironic, let me help you;

We from the 'common cold security centre' would like to warn you all that you are more likely to catch the common cold. PS We would like to thank Bush for his great job of stopping the threat of the common cold...
Talon Karrde wrote:Perhaps you choose to ignore the fact that when we take the fight to terrorists, they are going to want to fight back. Again, it seems that you think Bush is incompetant because terrorism is still a threat today.
Bitch don't put words in my mouth, I think Bush is incompetant for many reasons (being unable to string a coherent sentence together in English being one of them), this was me pointing out the fucking irony in the article Stravo quoted, and you being a moron and being unable to fucking read and comprehend.
Talon Karrde wrote:Oh boy, now he's angry. :roll:
Try me, see what happens.
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Durandal
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Post by Durandal »

Crown, it's not worth it. Talon Karrde is simply regurgitating the massive load of semen the Republican party has deposited in his mouth.
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Post by Crown »

Durandal wrote:Crown, it's not worth it. Talon Karrde is simply regurgitating the massive load of semen the Republican party has deposited in his mouth.
You're right, 3 times over no less. At least I can be assured that I'm not going crazy and someone else is seeing what I'm seeing.
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Post by Gil Hamilton »

I find it odd that Talon thinks that the "Terror Alert Level" has anything to do with America being safer. After all, the departments of government that actually provide the real security for the country operate at the same level of alertness regardless of the "Terror Alert Level", or that's the theory. If the theory of it holds out, America is exactly as safe as it was before the alert was raised, because if the people charged with security in America are doing their job, then they are as alert as humanly possible regardless of Tom Ridge announces.

What the "Terror Alert Level" serves to do is to encourage people who are gullible to actually think it actually means anything to be afraid that something bad is going to happen. These terror alert levels never amount to anything and are brought to you by the same people who announced that fountain pens could be used by terrorists once to shoot poison, so people should be on the look out.

As far as I'm concerned, the greatest thing the office of Homeland Security has done is that Tom Ridge stopped being my governor when it was formed. Of course, I may just be highly cynical.
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