Keevan_Colton wrote:... give a valid reason for this ammendment other than fucking "God said so!"
Lets see...because the voters in Missouri wanted it.
Or were tricked into voting for it by deliberately obtuse wording and/or errors of ommission.
It happens all the time. Case in point: the Stelly Plan of taxation in New Orleans. It was spun at 350,000 RPMs that it would dramatically lower taxes across the board, and what I read at the ballot machine led me to believe it (I.E. no weird provisos or other such bullshit). Guess what. It was a MASSIVE TAX HIKE IN DISGUISE!!! Apparently the text on the ballot box wasn't the full version, so it neatly hid all the provisos from the voters!
Couple that with the practice of attaching riders to bills guaranteed to pass, and you have yourself the recipe for tyranny. You can put any number of completely irrelevant riders on bills as you please, deliberately word them overbroadly, etc etc. and in theory you can grant Dubya a life term in office, sign the death warrants for all gays/nonwhites/nonchristians/etc, scrap the SCOTUS, put cameras in every bedroom in America and SWAT teams on every street corner with specific orders to break and enter any domicile they choose; etc by attaching massively-legalesed-up riders to, say, some shiny new Tax Act that's sure to be a hit with the voters! WELCOME TO AMERIKA!
Augustus wrote:Lets see...because the voters in Missouri wanted it.
I'm actually grateful that this will set up a constitutional challange that will force the SCOTUS to put the gay marriage issue to bed once and for all.
It likely won't. Conservatives will just cry "Judicial Activism!" when that happens and the issue won't be put to rest, because I'm sure that some members of the Senate would keep pushing for a Constitutional Amendment to ban gay marriage federally.
On the grounds of Equal Protection alone it does. Though based on the SCOTUS's previous patterns I doubt they will address the issue of gay marriage directly.
Judical activism is usually preceviced ont he circuit of applet level. The SC is immune to cries of Judicial Activism - that is unless your a Democrat who thinks that Gore won in 2000.
I'm from LA and the Stelly plan is utterly irrelivant here.
Missouri voters voted it in.
Also nothing prevents an opposing group in Missouri from attempting to amend the consitution in a way which allows gay marriage.
I'm from LA and the Stelly plan is utterly irrelivant here.
Missouri voters voted it in.
Also nothing prevents an opposing group in Missouri from attempting to amend the consitution in a way which allows gay marriage.
My point remains standing: THE VOTERS CAN BE TRICKED!
Notice I also said the Stelly plan applies to NEW ORLEANS. NOT the whole state!
And no, there is nothing preventing opposing groups from trying to amend the MO constitution to allow gay marriage, but successfully passing it is a completely different matter. The Fundycrats will just start calling that group Satan-worshippers and telling the voters that if they vote for the amendment that THEY WILL PERSONALLY BURN IN HELL. Guaranteed victory for the Fundycrats.
Seems to me you're arguing from popularity of opinion in a christreich state, rather than examining the actual merits of what's happened.
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Keevan_Colton wrote:The fact this bullshit has no basis outside stupid-head-up-ass-christian-bigotry and it's being passed shows that basically you have a theocracy full of fucking morons on your hands in Missouri. Though given the fact you're a fucking retard this would of course seem to be a plus point to you.
Well thanks for the blatant flame. That helps your argument tremendously.
When 70% of the voters vote to ban gay marriage, I would say that they have their "head up their ass." Seems they are a bit more main-stream than you.
You've gotta love this demonstration of profound idiocy on Moron Karrde's part. Notice how Keevan says that this blatantly discriminatory amendment is Christian bigotry, and Karrde responds not by acknowledging this, defending it, or excusing it but by saying it's "mainstream".
A) It is not a rebuttal at all.
B) The same could have been said of racial segregation once.
C) The same could have been said of slavery once.
Karrde is obviously addicted to shitty logic, as are most of his theocratic ilk.
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Rye wrote:Seems to me you're arguing from popularity of opinion in a christreich state, rather than examining the actual merits of what's happened.
Flame bait aside.
I didnt say I agreed with it or disagreed with it.
Plain and simple what has happened in MO is an expression of the majorities will - Democracy in action. The poloitcal system has not been alteed in anyway that would prevent supporters of gay marriage from organizing and attempting to re-amend the MO constitution.
Rye wrote:Seems to me you're arguing from popularity of opinion in a christreich state, rather than examining the actual merits of what's happened.
Flame bait aside.
I didnt say I agreed with it or disagreed with it.
Plain and simple what has happened in MO is an expression of the majorities will - Democracy in action. The poloitcal system has not been alteed in anyway that would prevent supporters of gay marriage from organizing and attempting to re-amend the MO constitution.
And yet you STILL did not address my points! The majority can be tricked, sometimes to the point that A MORTAL MAN can threaten Eternal Damnation to Hellfire for a certain course of action and expect to see massive results at the polls!
I didnt say I agreed with it or disagreed with it.
Plain and simple what has happened in MO is an expression of the majorities will - Democracy in action. The political system has not been altered in anyway that would prevent supporters of gay marriage from organizing and attempting to re-amend the MO constitution.
Democracy is mob rule now? Here was me thinking democracy was supposed to afford the same rights to everyone, nto simply deny them because the majority say so.
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Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:And yet you STILL did not address my points! The majority can be tricked, sometimes to the point that A MORTAL MAN can threaten Eternal Damnation to Hellfire for a certain course of action and expect to see massive results at the polls!
There isnt any way to address that point but to agree with you. Going back to the Greeks, democracy has always been a 'buyer beware' enterprise, prone to coruption, the influence of sophists and rhetoric. It is however an itterative process that is not required to produce the correct or optimum result the first time. The entire thrust of your point is 'Democracy isnt perfect", to which I would reply ...'So, it isnt ment to be? What would you replace it with that workd better?"
Again if supporters of Gay Marriage in MO could gain enough support they could undue what has been done, or they can take it to the FEDs.
Keevan_Colton wrote:The south wanted to keep slavery, didnt change the fact it made them a bunch of shit heads. I'm sick fed up of shitty little chrisitian assholes fucking up others lives in the name of an almighty sky pixie, you have demonstrated time and again here you're one of these shitheads. The equal protection clause exists to stop this sort of shit from happening yet you fundamentalist fuck-heads love to piss all over the rights of others so it is hardly suprising.
As for my statment about them having shit for brains, the old saying if it walks like a duck... springs to mind.
Homosexuality is a lifestyle, being black is not, thats just the color of your skin. The left loves to make martrys out of homosexuals, your just another example of that.
Hmmm...one could say the same of Jews. Can I assume you would be in favor of an amendment banning marriage between Jews? It is a lifestyle choice afterall. You asshole, what the FUCK does it matter to your cum stained existence whether two homosexuals get married. Is your life and your god so fucking horrible that they would infringe upon the rights of human beings to be happy.
Its people like you that make Christians look like the Inquisition reborn. Open your fucking mind just for a moment instead of adhering to a book written by ancient old men thousands of years ago that amongst other things advocating stoning children for not listening to their parents.
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Rye wrote:Democracy is mob rule now? Here was me thinking democracy was supposed to afford the same rights to everyone, nto simply deny them because the majority say so.
How is what happened in MO 'Mob Rule'?
Democracy is not to provide everone with equal rights - it is the rule of the majority. The equal rights issue can only be addressed in the Federal Constitution.
Rye wrote:Democracy is mob rule now? Here was me thinking democracy was supposed to afford the same rights to everyone, nto simply deny them because the majority say so.
Forgive him, he lives in a repressive regime full of Doublethink, Newspeak, and Big Brother...
Rye wrote:Democracy is mob rule now? Here was me thinking democracy was supposed to afford the same rights to everyone, nto simply deny them because the majority say so.
How is what happened in MO 'Mob Rule'?
It's unjustiably discriminatory.
Democracy is not to provide everone with equal rights - it is the rule of the majority. The equal rights issue can only be addressed in the Federal Constitution.
Majority rule.< You
The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community. <Me
However, a democracy that is unjustifiably discriminatory beyond the voters being bigoted arseholes has something clearly wrong with it. One dedicated to equality and fairness, rather than a simple majority makes more sense for governing everyone, while the other should rule just that majority.
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beyond the voters being bigoted = because the voters are bigoted*
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Rye wrote:Seems to me you're arguing from popularity of opinion in a christreich state, rather than examining the actual merits of what's happened.
Care to name me a state that isn't mostly Christian? (Assuming you count Mormons as Christians, so no Utah for you!)
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Rye wrote:Seems to me you're arguing from popularity of opinion in a christreich state, rather than examining the actual merits of what's happened.
Care to name me a state that isn't mostly Christian? (Assuming you count Mormons as Christians, so no Utah for you!)
What's that got to do with anything? A fundie populace will instinctively vote to oppress people unless there are things like laws for equality making sure the unpopular people have the same rights.
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Keevan_Colton wrote:... give a valid reason for this ammendment other than fucking "God said so!"
Lets see...because the voters in Missouri wanted it.
Not good enough. The majority cannot take away Constitutional rights on a whim.
I'm not intimately familiar with the process that amending the MO constitution entails, but I assume its a process that takes some time (peritions, organzation ect). I doubt that amounts to a 'whim".
Fact of the matter remains. the MO electorate excercised its will. Nothing but intervention from another group in MO seeking another amendment, or the SCOTUS will change that.
It mentions nothing about equal rights,(the Athenians who invented Democracy in fact held slaves) and only that final power rests with the citizens to make decesions binding the whole.
Doesnt really matter anyway, because we all know that the Freemasons run the country!
Augustus wrote:
Fact of the matter remains. the MO electorate excercised its will. Nothing but intervention from another group in MO seeking another amendment, or the SCOTUS will change that.
The fact that this violates the US Constitution is either above your level of reading comprehension or do you simply feel there's no such thing as immoral if you can get away with it?
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Augustus wrote:
Fact of the matter remains. the MO electorate excercised its will. Nothing but intervention from another group in MO seeking another amendment, or the SCOTUS will change that.
The fact that this violates the US Constitution is either above your level of reading comprehension or do you simply feel there's no such thing as immoral if you can get away with it?
No its not. I fully expect the SCOTUS will strike it down. Save your indignation and sarchasim for someone else.
