Fighter carrier meets modern era

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2004-08-03 02:28pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The Trade Federation Core Ships mount 850 kiloton-range point-defense lasers.

Actually the cannons are rated at 8 kiloton, max.

edit:
I misunderstood, you meant to say they had 850 cannons that could fire KT-level bolts, even so.. thats incorrect too, they only have 280 PD lasers.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-08-03 02:31pm

Raven4602 wrote:Once the Stormies ran up against aboriginees in australia they would get owned.

Only if the aboriginies were helped by navy seals using stolen Imperial equipment.

Raven4602 · Post by **Raven4602** » 2004-08-03 10:42pm

I think if ewok bows and arrows can wound or injure storm troopers then taking rounds from an m-16 would also cause some kind of trama to the storm troopers even if it couldn't penetrate the armour.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-08-03 10:49pm

Raven4602 wrote:I think if ewok bows and arrows can wound or injure storm troopers then taking rounds from an m-16 would also cause some kind of trama to the storm troopers even if it couldn't penetrate the armour.

Gee...that's because they hit the soft vulnerable points in the Stormtropper armor...namely the body suits.

And given they have shown in the SW universe that they're own slugthrow weapons do not affter the general armor.

Prove your assertion.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-08-04 12:43am

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
In short, if you figure a modern fighter can out-maneuver the TIE, figure the missiles they carry can too. Of course, the TIE probably carries enough jamming power to simply fry any active seekers.

Outmaneuver, maybe. Outrun? No. Going straight, the TIE should be able to "put the pedal to the metal" and blast ahead of the missles...

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-08-04 12:44am

Raven4602 wrote:I think if ewok bows and arrows can wound or injure storm troopers then taking rounds from an m-16 would also cause some kind of trama to the storm troopers even if it couldn't penetrate the armour.

What about the droid-thrown spear that slammed into Stormie armor and hurled him clear across the room into a wall, yet only left a small dent? (This was in the EU, so you know)

R.O.A · Post by **R.O.A** » 2004-08-04 01:54pm

Now correct me if im wrong, but Tie fighter's are unsheilded, so if say an A10's gattling gun was put agaisnt them the tie would be ripped to shredds. I dont think a gattling gun that fires 4000 expolisve rounds a miunute strong enough to rip any tank to shredds couldend take down a tie.

As for on the ground stormies would take DC but wouldent hold it for long. A fifty caliber machine gun off a tank would eventully rip stormie armor to shreds

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-04 02:17pm

The A-10 would have a hard time closing with the TIE enough to use the 30 mm cannon air to air, though.

R.O.A · Post by **R.O.A** » 2004-08-04 02:26pm

Ya your right about that

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2004-08-04 02:27pm

Rogue 9 wrote:The A-10 would have a hard time closing with the TIE enough to use the 30 mm cannon air to air, though.

If game mechanics-- old game mechanics at that (A-10 Silent Thunder)-- are any indication, that's correct. the A-10 is pretty slow even at high speed-- about all it's got going for it, really, is its redundancy, capability to carry a shitload of weapons, and its gun. A helo could do much the same, although it wouldn't be able to carry as much.

On topic? Pretty much the same conclusion as most people posting here have reached-- probably able to take a few countries, but unless they take a powerful enough country (ie, US, Russia, China), they wouldn't really be able to conquer the world. Their best chance would be hiring on as mercenaries; can you imagine what those 5,000 stormies could do in Baghdad and Fallujah...

It would be, quite simply, excellent!

warpusher · Post by **warpusher** » 2004-08-04 02:30pm

The 30mm for the A-10 does have HE rounds, but for Anti-Tank it shoots DU (Depleted Uranium) slugs. These shells penetrate tank armor through kenetic energy and the natural density of the shell (uranium = denser metal than Steel)

The A-10 is an Air-Ground bird. The Air-Air gun is still the good ole M-61 20mm vulcan cannon. This weapon is extremely leathal on air targets.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-04 02:39pm

And the depleted uranium would do the job on a TIE just as well, if not better. Again, the problem's getting close enough to hit it.

Edit: And at the risk of a thread hijack, that gun, the redundant systems to minimize the effect of AAA hits, and the crapload of missiles are all the A-10 needs to have going for it. Its job is to kill tanks, thus the A in front of the -10.

R.O.A · Post by **R.O.A** » 2004-08-04 02:41pm

Another thing most Imperial carriers only have enough supplies for about 9 months so they would either have to retreate or land on earth somewhere and use its forces to capture more supplies. During this time they would be annililated by earth's forces so pretty much they would lose. We would give them so much hell it would be amazing.

Raven4602 · Post by **Raven4602** » 2004-08-04 08:20pm

ok well m-16 bullets hitting the soft vulnerable parts of the storm troopers armour would do more damage then. They would penetrate at the soft vulnerable points and then bounce around inside the armour of the storm troopers and cut there soft skin to shreds. A similiar effect happens when a shell penetrates a tank. It doesn't have enouch power to punch out the other side so it rattles around inside the crew compartment cutting everyone to shreds. ( this part is for ghost rider) Not to mention in the movie that when the storm troopers were getting hit by rocks thrown by ewoks it was visibily causing pain to the storm troopers. A thrown rock is gonna have no where near the power behind it of an m-16 bullit. You can say all you want about the EU but i am sure that the actual movies take precedence when it comes to this. If thrown rocks can hurt storm troopers then modern firearms would be able to injure the troops. Unless your suggesting a thrown rock or a sling has more power behind it then an m-16 rifle round would.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-08-04 08:32pm

Raven4602 wrote:ok well m-16 bullets hitting the soft vulnerable parts of the storm troopers armour would do more damage then. They would penetrate at the soft vulnerable points and then bounce around inside the armour of the storm troopers and cut there soft skin to shreds. A similiar effect happens when a shell penetrates a tank. It doesn't have enouch power to punch out the other side so it rattles around inside the crew compartment cutting everyone to shreds. ( this part is for ghost rider) Not to mention in the movie that when the storm troopers were getting hit by rocks thrown by ewoks it was visibily causing pain to the storm troopers. A thrown rock is gonna have no where near the power behind it of an m-16 bullit. You can say all you want about the EU but i am sure that the actual movies take precedence when it comes to this. If thrown rocks can hurt storm troopers then modern firearms would be able to injure the troops. Unless your suggesting a thrown rock or a sling has more power behind it then an m-16 rifle round would.

Actually, a thrown boulder of the size the Ewoks were dropping is going to have far more impact than an M16 bullet, even if it causes less damage due to the force being spread, its still going to knock you around more. Plus there is nothing which says that the STs hit with rocks were permanently out of the fight.
If you need a demonstration, I will be happy to find a 40-50 pound rock, take it to your house, and drop it on you from the roof as you are leaving. When you recover, I will shoot you once with an M16, and see which of the two events caused you to move more.

[size=0]yes I am joking, this doesn't constitute an actual threat, move along oh great nosy moderators[/size]

Raven4602 · Post by **Raven4602** » 2004-08-04 08:38pm

i still think the m-16 would cause more damage to the target. It is moving at a lot higher velocity and the majority of its force will be concentrated in a smaller area so more chance for blunt force trauma. The rocks were moving at a pretty slow speed. I have been hit by baseballs thrown a lot harder then what the ewoks were and i didn't even have armor on. Its kind of like how a 40mm anti-tank shell had better armor penetration then a short barelled american 75mm shell. Even though the 75mm shell was a lot larger the 40mm shell had a lot more velocity so it hit a lot harder

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-08-04 08:44pm

Raven4602 wrote:i still think the m-16 would cause more damage to the target. It is moving at a lot higher velocity and the majority of its force will be concentrated in a smaller area so more chance for blunt force trauma. The rocks were moving at a pretty slow speed. I have been hit by baseballs thrown a lot harder then what the ewoks were and i didn't even have armor on. Its kind of like how a 40mm anti-tank shell had better armor penetration then a short barelled american 75mm shell. Even though the 75mm shell was a lot larger the 40mm shell had a lot more velocity so it hit a lot harder

Dude, reading comprehension.

I agree with you, its just that until you get into the vicinity of a .50cal, weapons just don't toss you around that much. If they did, it would be a bitch to try to fire them from a standing position.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-08-04 09:03pm

consequences wrote: Actually, a thrown boulder of the size the Ewoks were dropping is going to have far more impact than an M16 bullet, even if it causes less damage due to the force being spread, its still going to knock you around more. Plus there is nothing which says that the STs hit with rocks were permanently out of the fight.
If you need a demonstration, I will be happy to find a 40-50 pound rock, take it to your house, and drop it on you from the roof as you are leaving. When you recover, I will shoot you once with an M16, and see which of the two events caused you to move more. [size=0]yes I am joking, this doesn't constitute an actual threat, move along oh great nosy moderators[/size]

Okay, that part about the demonstration just made me laugh out loud...

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-05 01:35pm

Not to mention in the movie that when the storm troopers were getting hit by rocks thrown by ewoks it was visibily causing pain to the storm troopers. A thrown rock is gonna have no where near the power behind it of an m-16 bullit. You can say all you want about the EU but i am sure that the actual movies take precedence when it comes to this. If thrown rocks can hurt storm troopers then modern firearms would be able to injure the troops. Unless your suggesting a thrown rock or a sling has more power behind it then an m-16 rifle round would.

Go read a high school physics textbook. You see, there is this little thing called conservation of momentum. I don't care how hard those helmets were. The energy of the falling rocks would be transferred to the helmet. Since the helmets did not break, this energy is then transferred from the helmet to the stormtrooper's head. Result: One knocked down stormtrooper. You'll notice that after the stormtroopers fell down, the Ewoks had to jump down after them and start hitting them with axes because the troopers were still moving and fighting. This speaks volumes for the armor's effectiveness, as any unarmored individual getting hit with a rock that size from that height would likely be dead, his neck broken and/or his skull fractured.

warpusher · Post by **warpusher** » 2004-08-05 03:15pm

It could be that the Ewoks were bludgeoning the Stormies after they squished their heads out of spite.

Many primitive cultures have had ritual desecration of Dead enemies. The Native Americans can be used as an example. Look at what they immediately did to Custer's forces after they were killed.

The Ewoks are shown to be a primitive culture. Look at the footage. They were going to cook luke alive.

The "blooding" of the already dead stormies fits in with an enraged enemy (ewoks) finally being able to strike back at a tormentor (stormies)

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-05 03:19pm

Except that the stormies were clearly struggling.

Kind of pokes a hole in your little theory, doesn't it?

warpusher · Post by **warpusher** » 2004-08-05 07:07pm

and for all their vaunted "struggling" the stormies got taken by some teddy bears hand to hand...

It was probably like...

squad leader - "XG-543 lets take the squad over here under this overhanging tree"

xg-543 " I dunno sarge...that doesn't sound too bright"

SL - "dammit XG when we get back to base your Bantha fodder for your backtalk! Lets go men"

XG-543 "Oh s$%t there up there throwing rocks..."

<THUD>

XG-543 "darn I took a hard hit....the forrest is spinning."

XG-543 "Crap they're jumping on top of me, but I'm about as out of it as some prize fighter named Mike Tyson was this weekend...."

XG-543 "Ouch..these repeated blows to my armor are messing me up something fierce....oh well...they got sarge's helmet off...I get to watch him go"

struggling would have been buttstroking an ewok..not flailing about like you just got knocked silly.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-05 09:09pm

Its a miracle that they were even conscious, dumbass. It still speaks volumes for the armor.

warpusher · Post by **warpusher** » 2004-08-05 09:20pm

being conscious and being conscious enough to do things effectively are two different things....ever hear about being knocked out on your feet? I've seen people knocked out who flail about for a bit but you can tell it is just the motions...they have no way to defend themselves.

Big blunt objects are great to do this. At basic Training we used Pugel sticks to beat on each other. We were wearing football helmets. I got ko'ed and don't remember it. My buds told me I kept swinging but lost all form...was flatfooted...gave up all defense to just swing...and then the DI's called it off...

and stopping a boulder doesn't speak that much for the armor. Boulder wouldn't crush a modern kevlar helmet. I know we tried (got to find ways to entertain yourself in the desert) that's what hard plate armor is good for...stopping blunt force trauma. It is up to the padding underneath the plate to stop/lessen the transmission of that blunt force to the body. In medieval times it was though the use of mail and quilted padded clothing.

Today the hard armor (interceptor plates) is backed by kevlar to absorb the blows

I don't know what the padding the stormies use other than the black body suits, but whatever it is it was not enough for them to get up and shrug off the boulders and then stomp the ewoks. They got knocked on their asses....flailed a bit...then got killed in quick order....just like a mideval knight would have been or a modern day soldier.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-05 09:33pm

They lived to flail a bit, as you put it, though. Without the armor, it would have been broken necks and broken skulls all around. With it, they were still sufficiently aware of their surroundings to at least try to fight off the Ewoks. (Also, the ability to haul those rocks up that tree as well as the ability to build all those large traps strongly suggests that Ewoks are very strong for their size.)