Xenomorphs vs Human Resistance

[Cthulhu-chan]

Also remember "Alien". The chestburster was growing to its mature state withing several hours. Were did it get it's bio-mass from, when it was really depending on food like you suggest?

Its host body, genius. It had no other conceivable source of mass, since it was trapped in that host body. This honestly doesn't occur to you?

It is notable that, as far as I can recollect, no xeno has ever been shown to consume anything. The chestburster apparently does not consume it's host, as in both the movies that show them the first thing they did (after shrieking) was to bolt from thier deceased host, leaving it untouched.

In Alien it was surrounded by hostile humans, so it never had the chance. Since they jetison the victim's body, it couldn't have gone back to eat it later.

In Alien 3 it scampered off into the air ducts without giving the dog's corpse a second glance.

One was shown in Aliens, but Ripley torched it and it's host as soon as it "hatched".[/quote]

[Cthulhu-chan]

D'oh, hit reply too soon.

Anyhow, at least in the case of Alien, there was a decided lack of supplies for the xeno to consume. Kane's corspe is jetisoned before the chestburster could have a chance at it, and the ship only had enough food and air to last a week (the crew was supposed to stay in cryo for the trip back to earth). So, the question is how does a creature that starts out at probably 10 pounds blood-soaked reach 300 to 400+ pounds with so little biomass to work with?

[Shroom Man 777]

How would you know how much supplies was in the ship?

And the xeno could've parasited nutrients and whatnot from the host body while it was still in the host. Off-screen, the host could've suddenly became hungry and gobbled up a helluva lot of food.

[Cthulhu-chan]

The supplies available is stated when they realize they had to hunt down the xeno before going back into cryostasis. They had to capture and jetison it within a week before food and air ran out.

As for the xeno 'leeching' nutrients from the host, well...

...the question is how does a creature that starts out at probably 10 pounds blood-soaked reach 300 to 400+ pounds with so little biomass to work with?

Just where the hell was it carrying several times it's bodymass in nutrients?! A full grown xeno stands about two meters tall (excluding tail) and at least a few hundred pounds. A chestburster is about a meter long (including tail) and might weigh a dozen pounds newborn. Where does the mass come from?

[NecronLord]

Hey. Dipshit. He's talking about how a lil bitty egg thing that can be mistaken for a fault in the camera can grow to a big chest burster.

[Cthulhu-chan]

You know what, you're right. Wong is speaking of the embryo. On the other hand, Antares isn't. For that matter, it doesn't change my question in the least, now does it? So hey, keep your insults to yourself.

[Cthulhu-chan]

Grah, hasty posting.

If you are referring to Shroom Man, then you can still keep your insults to yourself. While he may be referring to the embryo, I was not. It's pretty obvious that the chestburster parasitizes the host while developing within it. Ooh, big revelation. The important question is where does the mass come from afterward? I'm pretty sure my posts were clear on that. For that matter, I'm pretty confident that that was what Antares was referring to, as well.

[Patrick Ogaard]

We know that the xenomorphs, both facehuggers and the adult stage, carry seriously destructive acid internally. We also know that the xenomorphs have DNA, since otherwise genesplicing of xenomorphs and humans would be impossible. This means, as the inevitable conclusion, that xenomorphs are conventional biological creatures (though it does not preclude the possibility of their having been engineered as a bioweapon).

Obviously, this does not have to mean that the xenomorphs can survive only on TV dinners. Conventional biological life can subsist, even thrive, on odd stuff. Given the extremely potent acid of the xenomorphs, it's entirely possible they might be able to use it to break complex hydrocarbons down into forms they can metabolize. That is, there's nothing really preventing the alien from having sucked necessary trace elements from the host while still in embryonic form, and then simply building the bulk of its body mass by eating plastic flooring, insulation and construction materials, even polyethylene sheeting or other radiation protection materials. It would also explain their habit of producing their hives from "some sort of secreted resin." Maybe the xenomorphs make their hives from their own plastic poop.

[Patrick Ogaard]

The idea of xenomorphs being able to consume complex hydrocarbons also wouldn't necessarily contradict their being referred to as lithovores. They'd probably need to consume trace elements occasionally, which they could extract from rock by means of their digestive acids, and occasionally munching hydrocarbon-rich rocks, like oil shale, might be entirely adequate nutrition for an adult xenomorph.

[NecronLord]

The important question is where does the mass come from afterward? I'm pretty sure my posts were clear on that. For that matter, I'm pretty confident that that was what Antares was referring to, as well.

Yeah, because assuming it can eat rocks, without any canon evidence to suggest that it could, makes a great deal of sense.

Let's ignore the fact that this means it goes from consuming organic materials to consuming rocks, in the same form. Now, one, when it kills Brett, what's it going to do with his corpse? It's pushed its fanged tongue through his skull. It can't host a new alien, cos he's friggin dead. Thus, the only logical reason to cart his corpse off is to provide sustanance at some point.

For future reference;

I'm getting some mighty peculiar readings,

Nine
Coffee and tea had been joined on the mess table by individual servings of food. Everyone ate slowly, their enthusiasm coming from the fact they were a whole crew again rather than from the bland offerings of the autochef.
Only Kane ate differently, wolfind down huge portions of the artificial meats and vegetables. He'd alreads finished two normal helpings and was starting on a third with no sign of slowing down.

Those two fairly obviously show that the parasite within Kane was taking nutrients from him.

'Easy.' Dallas cradled his flamethrower, turned the corner into the corridor. Loud rending noises continued, more clearly now. He knew where they were originating. 'The food locker,' he whispered back to them, 'It's inside.'
'Listen to that,' Lambert muttered in awe. 'Jesus it must be big.'
'Big enough,' agreed Parker softly. 'I saw it remember. And strong. It carried Brett like ...' He cut off in mid-sentence, thoughts of Brett chocking off any desire for conversation.
[...]
Several minutes were spent nervously waiting outside for the locker's interior to cool enough for them to enter.
[...]
Packages of every size were strewn about the floor, opened in ways and by means their manufacturers had never envisioined.
Solid metal storage 'tins' (so called because of tradition and not their metallurgical make-up) had been peeled apart like fruit. From what they could see, the alien hadn't left much intact for the flamethrower to finish off.

Note that this locker is described as large enough for three people to walk into. This knocks it down to a matter of Occam's Razor. It does eat our foods. It might eat rocks and metals, or it might not, for which there is no evidence.

So we have 1 - with evidence, or 1 and 2 - unsubstantiated. Which sounds most rational?

[Patrick Ogaard]

The text from the novelization certainly does seem to trump any ideas of strictly non-biological chowing down by xenomorphs. If it can eat human food, and even goes to the trouble of seeking out and breaking open metal containers to get at the food...

[Shroom Man 777]

See! I was right!

[THEHOOLIGANJEDI]

The Problem that the Human resistance faces is that they don't have motion trackers. The main reason that CM even stood a chance against the Aliens were the motion trackers. I'm unsure whether the HR possess Trackers but from the looks of it (T1 and T2) they don't seem to. So if they attack HR safe house they are going to be fucked pretty hard.

The Only tactics I can think work are nukes and reprograming termie infiltrators. HKs are useless since HR were pretty easy to avoid. Since Humans were able to do so Xenos should definately be able to avoid.
Infitrators may be the most effective weaponry to use.

[NecronLord]

The Problem that the Human resistance faces is that they don't have motion trackers. The main reason that CM even stood a chance against the Aliens were the motion trackers.

Bullshit. The motion trackers proved useless throughout Aliens. Hive scene, no help. Scene where they come through the roof, didn't save a single life. The only thing the motion trackers did for the USCM was heighten tension. I'll take the superior leadership and superior weaponary of Connor's boys any day.

[THEHOOLIGANJEDI]

The Problem that the Human resistance faces is that they don't have motion trackers. The main reason that CM even stood a chance against the Aliens were the motion trackers.

Bullshit. The motion trackers proved useless throughout Aliens. Hive scene, no help. Scene where they come through the roof, didn't save a single life. The only thing the motion trackers did for the USCM was heighten tension. I'll take the superior leadership and superior weaponary of Connor's boys any day.

Which was pretty much my point. DUH!!! It provided minimal (but useful) help.Which is why I think in most cases the HR would lose badly.

[Shroom Man 777]

The differences it would make would be negligible. Plus the plasma weapons of the Resistance compensates for their lack of motion sensors. And Termies also have motion detectors. Plus, why would HKs be useless? They'd rack up enormous kills when xenos moronically charge at them in obscene numbers.

[Patrick Ogaard]

The Problem that the Human resistance faces is that they don't have motion trackers. The main reason that CM even stood a chance against the Aliens were the motion trackers.

Bullshit. The motion trackers proved useless throughout Aliens. Hive scene, no help. Scene where they come through the roof, didn't save a single life. The only thing the motion trackers did for the USCM was heighten tension. I'll take the superior leadership and superior weaponary of Connor's boys any day.

If the Skynet forces are out of the picture, then the obvious procedure to use would be to establish secure free fire zones around bases. Simple motion sensors, like those available in any Home Depot or Radio Shack in the States, could be rigged to post-mounted high intensity lights. If something trips the motion sensors -- and those sensors could be set to rather high levels of sensitivity -- the lights go on and the black-carapaced critters get blown to bits by the guards. Naturally, you'll want to clear the ground in the vicinity, or even pave it. Simple radar systems scanning the vicinity would back up the system, detecting anything moving within the scanned perimeter. If relatively cheap fusion power systems can be tapped, it might be practical to simply keep the entire kill zone brightly lit at all times.

Failing that, such as in a built-up area, liberal use of electrified wire and razor wire or barbed wire would be a good way to keep xenomorphs from going where they shouldn't. A secured building ruin could be fairly quickly festooned with nasty wire, with much of it strung high on the building to prevent xenomorph acrobatic endeavors, and strategically placed sensors, cheap microcameras and claymores or field-expedient equivalents would make acid chutney of trespassing xenomorphs.

Ultimately, the idea is not to make it utterly impossible for the xenomorphs to overrun a given installation, but rather to make every such attempt look like the reenactment of a battle scene from the movie Zulu, but with the British troops using automatic-firing directed energy weapons. The idea is to make it impossible for the xenomorphs to breed enough drones to realistically replace their losses.

Also, given the fact that the resistance would fairly quickly realize just what the xenomorps do to anyone they capture, it's a fair assumption that the first thing to be installed in any bunker will be a really big bomb with someone sitting at a deadman switch. Even the most panicky fool will prefer to get blasted to bits quickly along with family and friends rather than to face the horror of becoming a conscious incubator for a chestburster. I'd imagine that if the xenomorphs got unduly successful, soldiers would soon opt for deadman packages, small satchel charges linked to the soldier's vital signs (on the theory that it's better to have the occasional soldier blow up accidentally if the vital signs monitor gets screwed up rather than to risk a literal fate worse than death).

[NecronLord]

Which was pretty much my point. DUH!!! It provided minimal (but useful) help.Which is why I think in most cases the HR would lose badly.

Not really. The USCM went into an exceedingly poor situation due to the incompetance of their leader and their lack of information on the situation. Replacing Ghorman with an experienced Reistance Combat Vet would be far more useful than any minor advantage the equipment of the USCM had.

[THEHOOLIGANJEDI]

The differences it would make would be negligible. Plus the plasma weapons of the Resistance compensates for their lack of motion sensors. And Termies also have motion detectors. Plus, why would HKs be useless? They'd rack up enormous kills when xenos moronically charge at them in obscene numbers.

Why would they even attack them in that fashion. They've never even done that in Aliens at all. They aren't exactly ST arachnids. Again xenos don't attack out in the open (despite what you see in AVP)in the fashion you're talking about. Plus HKs go by infra red at night and we know they can't be seen in infra red. Alien probably won't even attack them at all since they aren't really a threat.

[Darth Wong]

The differences it would make would be negligible. Plus the plasma weapons of the Resistance compensates for their lack of motion sensors. And Termies also have motion detectors. Plus, why would HKs be useless? They'd rack up enormous kills when xenos moronically charge at them in obscene numbers.

Why would they even attack them in that fashion. They've never even done that in Aliens at all.

Wrong. Most of the aliens were wiped out trying to charge the sentry guns en masse. The remainder were wiped out almost entirely by the Marines themselves, so that when Ripley entered the Queen's lair there were only a handful left to defend her and the eggs.

They aren't exactly ST arachnids. Again xenos don't attack out in the open (despite what you see in AVP)in the fashion you're talking about. Plus HKs go by infra red at night and we know they can't be seen in infra red.

Not in the hot environment of a nuclear fusion reactor cooling system. Care to prove that such an environment is the same temperature as the post-apocalyptic wasteland of the Terminator-verse?

Alien probably won't even attack them at all since they aren't really a threat.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Aliens always attack anything in range in the movies.

[Patrick Ogaard]

Why would they even attack them in that fashion. They've never even done that in Aliens at all. They aren't exactly ST arachnids. Again xenos don't attack out in the open (despite what you see in AVP)in the fashion you're talking about. Plus HKs go by infra red at night and we know they can't be seen in infra red. Alien probably won't even attack them at all since they aren't really a threat.

Hordes of xenos charged the sentry gun barricade head-on in Aliens, simply charging straight into the fields of fire of the sentry guns until the ammunition reserves of the guns ran dry. Had they bothered to take a detour and entered the installation from the outside, they could have attacked with overwhelming numerical superiority, instead of with just plain old numerical superiority. That is, the marines, Ripley and all others would have gone down immediately under a tide of shiny carapaces and dripping fangs, with no chance for any of them to retreat.

It is canon: the xenos will in fact charge en masse when they have numbers and are facing heavy automatic weapons. (Come to think of it, if the marines had not walled off the corridor with the guns, instead building a barricade for a fire team to defend, they could possibly have stopped that attack dead in its tracks with a rifle grenade or three.)

[Patrick Ogaard]

Apparently the accurate use of the quote function is too complicated for my modest intellect. Would someone in the know be kind enough to fix my quote snafu?

The Great and almighty CAT GOD has granted your wish...now repay him in three tons of fishies~ Ghost Rider

[Shroom Man 777]

Why would they even attack them in that fashion. They've never even done that in Aliens at all. They aren't exactly ST arachnids.

Wrong. In Aliens you see them rushing like some retarded huns, rushing straight towards the sentry guns. Why would an HK be any different? Well, for one thing, the HK/s would be rumbling towards an Alien position/hive, intent on blowing the aliens to bits or slagging the entire hive.

Again xenos don't attack out in the open (despite what you see in AVP)in the fashion you're talking about.

Again xenos don't attack out in the open (despite what you see in Aliens)in the fashion you're talking about.

Plus HKs go by infra red at night and we know they can't be seen in infra red. Alien probably won't even attack them at all since they aren't really a threat.

Are you sure HKs only go by infra red? Then why the fuck do they have giant spotlights? And it's a fact that Termies also have motion detectors and all other simple gadetry, it's not that hard to imagine the HKs having those same equipment.

Alien probably won't even attack the sentry guns at all since they aren't really a threat

[NecronLord]

Again xenos don't attack out in the open (despite what you see in Aliens)

The Death Star was impregnable (despite what you see in ANH)

[THEHOOLIGANJEDI]

The differences it would make would be negligible. Plus the plasma weapons of the Resistance compensates for their lack of motion sensors. And Termies also have motion detectors. Plus, why would HKs be useless? They'd rack up enormous kills when xenos moronically charge at them in obscene numbers.

Why would they even attack them in that fashion. They've never even done that in Aliens at all.

Wrong. Most of the aliens were wiped out trying to charge the sentry guns en masse. The remainder were wiped out almost entirely by the Marines themselves, so that when Ripley entered the Queen's lair there were only a handful left to defend her and the eggs.

Still it's still quite different from, charging out in an open field and attacking. Analyize all attacks the xenos made in Aliens. 1. The sentry gun scene isn't really a good compasion to say attacking an HK in an open field would be a tactic xenos would use. With Ripley the CM were able to limit how the Aliens could come at them, so they couldn't get the Drop on them, and limited their tactics. As for the Hallway, it did provide cover that Aliens typically used, but very limited. They had cover of Darkness, and some wall protection.My point overall is that There is nothing I've seen on film that would point that xenos would attack on an open field of battle with absolutely no cover.

They aren't exactly ST arachnids. Again xenos don't attack out in the open (despite what you see in AVP)in the fashion you're talking about. Plus HKs go by infra red at night and we know they can't be seen in infra red.

Not in the hot environment of a nuclear fusion reactor cooling system. Care to prove that such an environment is the same temperature as the post-apocalyptic wasteland of the Terminator-verse?

Interesting conclusion to draw why the xenos weren't picked on IR, but I was hoping someone would point this out so I could elaborate on the efficiency of the HK. They aren't too bright for starters. xenos could just stay still to avoid them from being picked up on motion scan. If human can avoid HKs (I woun't say they did it with ease, but they did so to point where Skynet had to develop new tactics) As for IR, you conclusion is flawed to a degree, the Reator could have caused problems with their IR, but their is no evidence of any of the marines complaining about it doing so. But who knows for sure.

Alien probably won't even attack them at all since they aren't really a threat.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Aliens always attack anything in range in the movies.

I take that one back and say that xenos usually don't just arbitrarily charge something like an HK, they may hide on Blindspots and attack them in that fashion. They may not even attack them and just avoid them b/c they don't carry Humanoids or any lifeform worth harvesting. But would they attack them? Probably. But they are useless b/c for one thing Reese said they were trained to avoid them and how to take them out, and saying that they are not too bright. Seeing as how xenos are faster and can camoflage easier than Humans, they at least would be able to avoid them, (once they gain experience in dealing with them) much easier than humans.