STGOD 4 OOC Thread (part 2)

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2004-07-31 03:54pm

As I recall, Thirdfain should be returning soon, and bugsby too I think.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-08-01 08:17pm

Didn't they say mid Augest?

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2004-08-01 09:12pm

A week or 2 is soon; isn't it?

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-08-02 12:49am

-exhales-

I have returned. Adjust your faces kids, because they are about to get rocked off.

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-08-02 11:03am

I too have returned. I don't know how many faces I will be rocking off. But do expect at least a moderate level of rockage.

I have a feeling things are going to pick up now. Lets make this hot.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-02 11:56am

*Calls up Republic Space Command.* "Yeah, roll out Operation Guarded Shield. Yeah, that one. Okay, thanks."

Edit: Oh, and welcome back.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2004-08-02 04:03pm

frigidmagi wrote:Didn't they say mid Augest?

Guess not

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-08-03 07:46pm

Yup, truly not Mid Augest. That however is fine. Lets see who rocks who last.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-08-03 11:57pm

Short story is up in the Fanfics forum about the invasion of Jomungandr

Marcao · Post by **Marcao** » 2004-08-04 12:54am

Okay, that is all she wrote for me at the moment. I won't be posting in the STGOD until the 26th of August. Until then, have fun you guys and wish me luck.

Marcao · Post by **Marcao** » 2004-08-04 01:02am

Ooof, before I forget if the problems with the pirate fleet come to a header I would prefer if someone not directly involved in the hostilities take control of them. As such, I leave it to the players that will be active at the time to do a vote as to who would be the best representative for the Pirate forces. Of the top of my head, I would recommend Straha, Bugsby, Hotfoot, Dahak and Sir Nitram as good candidates.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-08-04 01:08am

I would go wth Nitram personally.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-04 11:32am

Okay, if the pirate groups are going to be that big... *Rewrites Operation Justice of the Void.*

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-08-04 12:23pm

I thjink having a pirate nation that big is, frankly, ridiculous. I think that Tortuga is just another star nation, and that it's being persecuted by the Draconis. There's no way pirates would be able to pull together enough to have a fleet of dreadnoughts.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-04 12:50pm

This is only the umpteenth time that this has been pointed out, only without the persecution angle... What's done is done, though. Those ships are indeed verified pirates, like it or not, and as such are subject to summary attack under the laws of most interstellar nations. But yeah, I think its highly unlikely for pirates to have dreadnoughts. Not only are they nearly impossible to acquire and maintain for private individuals without a nation's resources, but they're impractical for piracy work. Slow and overgunned; the merchantmen can outrun them and the kind of firepower they pack really isn't necessary at all.

If we want to talk persecution, we could talk about sending a fleet to seize Karsus without even attempting extradition procedures or diplomatic means...

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-08-04 12:56pm

I don't know what you are talking about.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-04 12:58pm

Well, I've got news for you. Everyone else does. Nobody's going to buy that, Thirdfain. All anyone who has freighters running out of their nation has to do is pull up records of known pirate vessels.

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-08-04 05:06pm

I dont have too much going on on the Combine home front here, so I would like a chance to handle the pirate fleets.... if no one has any problem with that, of course.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-05 12:12pm

I'm going to use the hiatus to take care of some internal matters, if no one minds. For starters, I have that referendum to deal with.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-05 02:20pm

Straha, can we just say that I bought a batch of that power armor for some reasonable price or other? I really need that captain back.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-08-05 08:17pm

I thjink having a pirate nation that big is, frankly, ridiculous

.

I think you need to hit the hostory books then. The North Africa coast was made up of pirate nation after another in the 1700 and 1800s. Then there's the Ciribbean, where pirates ran islands more often than the British did. Japan also had pirate kingdoms early in it's histroy. Okinawa got started has one before becoming a full fedge Asian kingdom (anddd being conqeared by the Japanese.) It is common in histroy to find pirates in control of small to mid-sized nations. Let's be honest a single planet is a small nation in the STGOD, therefore, it fits.

I think that Tortuga is just another star nation, and that it's being persecuted by the Draconis

.

[Baghdad Bob]And Tripoli was just another city with no reason for the Marines to lead an assualt on it, damn American pig-dogs. There were no pirates in Tripoli and if they were, they be starving at the gates, God Willing.[/Baghdad Bob]

There's no way pirates would be able to pull together enough to have a fleet of dreadnoughts

Find one debris flied from the Genocide war, pull out one Dreadnought Hulk, spend profits on blackmarket to repair and upgrade. You now have 1 Dreadnought. Or just buy/trade one from Minmater or steal a half finished one from floaters or a small fiefdom. Really come now, use the imagation, to come with the Floaters and Ousters (and that spin) you must have a impressivly able one!

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-08-06 07:27pm

frigidmagi wrote:It is common in histroy to find pirates in control of small to mid-sized nations. Let's be honest a single planet is a small nation in the STGOD, therefore, it fits.

The keyword here is pirate nation. If they're a nation, there are certain forms that have to be observed. Have the Draconis issued a declaration of war against Tortuga? Your example of the Barbary coast campaign is excellent. There was a definite buildup of tension via diplomacy (over the course of... oh... a decade or two!), exchanges of letters, and finally a declaration of war by the Pasha of Tripoli.

In Alyrium's case we're not really seeing any of this. Thirdfain is entirely justified in questioning this war.

Find one debris flied from the Genocide war, pull out one Dreadnought Hulk, spend profits on blackmarket to repair and upgrade. You now have 1 Dreadnought. Or just buy/trade one from Minmater or steal a half finished one from floaters or a small fiefdom. Really come now, use the imagation, to come with the Floaters and Ousters (and that spin) you must have a impressivly able one!

Do you realize how expensive either of those processes would be? A dreadnought is a first-class vessel, far too costly for a simple organization of pirates. To raise enough cash to built up the fleet they have, they would need to be making a very significant dent on interstellar commerce.

Also, a dreadnought isn't a normal pirate vessel. It's not very cost efficient to use a ship like that to hijack freighters, because a mere cruiser would be more than sufficient to drive off any likely escorts and intimidate merchantmen. You build a dreadnought in order to make war and defend your territory.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-08-06 07:39pm

Who's to say that they weren't perparing for a war?

Also, when have we ever seen Aly take his time?

So is Thridfain willing to overlook that fact that this planet was a Pirate lair? Is he in fact supporting piratcy and those who shelter pirates?

Considering the Ouster habit of just jumping into a system and blowing them apart for naked conquest, it's pure hypocrisy for him to question jackshit and I intend to chanllendge it.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-08-06 08:00pm

frigidmagi wrote:Who's to say that they weren't perparing for a war?

The fact that they were preparing for war puts them squarely in the nation-state category, mere pirates would have played weasel and figured an easier way out. You don't just charge into a nation-state and expect the international community to be silent, even if your opponents are the scuzziest bunch of bastards in known space.

Also, when have we ever seen Aly take his time?

Never. But how does that make it okay?

So is Thridfain willing to overlook that fact that this planet was a Pirate lair? Is he in fact supporting piratcy and those who shelter pirates?

I wouldn't put words in his mouth. If I did however, those words would be more like: "The Hajr does not support piracy or the acts of rogue nations, rather we support the sovereign territorial rights of all nations. In the interest of maintaining international stability and lawfulness, we must maintain a semblance of decorum and due procedure in our diplomacy. Recklessly and aggressively invading the territory of a sovereign nation without even the merest effort at a diplomatic solution, without even a declaration of war, violates the mostly deeply held codes of international conduct."

Considering the Ouster habit of just jumping into a system and blowing them apart for naked conquest, it's pure hypocrisy for him to question jackshit and I intend to chanllendge it.

A hypocritical political maneuver? I've never heard of such a thing.

Come off it. He can question anything he wants, and if he's right (as I think he is in this case) does the fact that he said it abruptly make his statement wrong. No.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-08-06 08:14pm

You don't just charge into a nation-state and expect the international community to be silent, even if your opponents are the scuzziest bunch of bastards in known space.

Hudson.

The Hajr does not support piracy or the acts of rogue nations, rather we support the sovereign territorial rights of all nations. In the interest of maintaining international stability and lawfulness, we must maintain a semblance of decorum and due procedure in our diplomacy. Recklessly and aggressively invading the territory of a sovereign nation without even the merest effort at a diplomatic solution, without even a declaration of war, violates the mostly deeply held codes of international conduct."

So Hudson get's it's 'sovereign territorial rights' honored when? Or the other systems? There has never been any 'honoring of sovereign territorial rights' in this game unless someone had a hammer big enough to make it to expensive not to.

A hypocritical political maneuver? I've never heard of such a thing.

Such a maneuver would belong in the Game thread.

He can question anything he wants, and if he's right (as I think he is in this case) does the fact that he said it abruptly make his statement wrong. No.

He can question all he wants and I can slam him with the history hammer all I want. His question is baseless. And frankly we have estblished without doubt that they are pirates, purebreed ship taking pirates. As we have no international court or organization to pursue a peaceful course, this leaves war to remove a menace from the void. Aly decided to do the service and shouldn't be jumped for that by the guy who ignored the very rules he's chosing to 'defend.'

Frankly, what are these international rules? I've heard them tossed around but never listed. There is no UN here, there is no Geneva Convention, nothing. So list these rules already instead vaugly refering to them and list where the powers of the STGOD agreed that they were in effect for Known Space.