Italian Army Starts Having Problem with Sexual Integration

[MKSheppard]

Linky

Women chased from Italian army
By John Phillips
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published August 6, 2004

ROME -- Recruitment of women in the Italian army has plummeted as male soldiers likened to "molesters in uniform" pester female recruits with salacious messages and requests for sex.

When the nation's armed forces began admitting women in 2000, about 23,000 women applied to military academies, making up 56 percent of the applicants.

By 2002, however, female applicants represented 21 percent of those seeking admission.

Women seeking to enlist in the Italian military, which traces its roots to the mighty legions of Rome, likewise dropped from 40 percent to 25 percent within three years.

A report in L'Espresso newsmagazine this week blamed unwelcome sexual advances by male soldiers for the decline in the number of women interested in military life.

The weekly cited the example of a woman serving at a barracks in northern Italy whose superior officer fired off text messages to her such as: "I can't sleep for thinking about you," "You excite me very much," and "Would you come on a cruise with me?"

When the woman failed to reply, the officer sent her an unchivalrous message with a one-word sexually explicit epithet.

Another female soldier found herself alone with her commanding officer in his office. "Without warning he lowered his trousers, showing her his boxer shorts," L'Espresso said.

A short time later, the same officer stunned two female soldiers by recounting how both he and his wife shaved their private parts. "We like it that way," he added.

The women were not amused and filed a formal complaint. The officer denied the charges, saying they were invented as a vendetta by women who received mediocre marks in training.

"There has been too much silence on sexual molesters, but the military and civil courts are beginning to work," the magazine said.

Not all the disenchantment with Italian military life is caused by sexual harassment. Carla, 27, quit an officers training course and went back to working in the bar her parents own near Verona.

"It was traumatic when they cut my hair as short as a boy's. I imagined this adventure would be easier, but after a year of officers training I was in crisis. There was too much discipline; one had to study such a lot and above all there was too much punishment. I thought I was tough but I found myself crying often. So one fine day I packed my bags and left," Carla said.

Another female recruit stayed in the army but confided to L'Espresso that she lives in fear of peacekeeping duty in Iraq or Afghanistan. "When I applied I never thought one day I might really have to fight."

Italian Defense Ministry officials play down the significance of the decline in women's applications to join. "These are figures we expected after the boom of applications in the first competitions open to women linked to a novelty effect," a ministry source said.

In all, 1,736 women are serving in the Italian army, navy, air force and Carabinieri paramilitary police.

Their arrival also led some male soldiers to complain of
discrimination, L'Espresso reported.

A regiment based in Piceno said relations with female soldiers were complicated.

"The officers punish the men and offer the women coffee. If it rains, outdoor exercises are canceled to avoid complications for the girls. Men are transferred out of units by overzealous superiors to avoid embarrassing situations," the magazine quoted one soldier as saying.

Fixed Link ~GR

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I read an interesting article once which postulated that the very low birth rates in some European--particularly Mediterranean, to be precise--countries was due to the fact that they retained a traditionally male or "macho" culture. Women in these societies cannot succeed in the business world unless behaving in an essentially male fashion--which obviously includes not having children--and so the birth rate has plummeted. Other European countries and the U.S., for example, have a greater cultural respect for the idea of a woman who at once works and simultaneously engages in "traditional" female activity/behaviour, and so their birth rate hasn't fallen as far.

It relates to something like this by demonstrating that, culturally, the Mediterranean countries are often quite atrocious in their treatment of women, even if their legislation on the subject is more advanced than our own.

[frigidmagi]

First off, this kinda bullshit should not be allowed in a professal military. Sexual harassment is wrong and kills your combat effectivness. There is no excuse for this no matter what nation or culture, if you seek to maintain a ready, able military, every solder must recieve equal treatment in accord with their skills and ability.

On a second note... DON'T FUCKING SIGN ON IF YOU NOT WILLING TO FIGHT!!! IT'S THE MILITARY NOT A FUCKING ADVENTURE TOUR!!!

Honestly, it's okay to be scared of being shot at. That's natural. But if you're not willing to do your job in a combat zone, we don't want you.

[frigidmagi]

Also note: Sexual Harassment should not be allowed in unprofessal militaries, legal paramilitary groups and cilivan work places.

[Master of Ossus]

While it's obvious that the Italian military is having TREMENDOUS problems with sexual harassment and integration, the women they interviewed seemed really whiny. "I didn't know I might have to fight" is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard from a member of the armed forces. What do they think they're being paid for? Also, the bit about studying is ridiculous. I think it's pretty clear these women did not have realistic expectations about the military.

That being said, it's pretty clear that the Italians need to completely change their program to avoid having problems. This is completely ridiculous, and they need to figure something out quickly.

[RogueIce]

Linky

*SNIP*

When the woman failed to reply, the officer sent her an unchivalrous message with a one-word sexually explicit epithet.

Translation: "Fuck."

This has got to be the longest, most drawn out method of describing that four letter gem I have ever heard.

"It was traumatic when they cut my hair as short as a boy's. I imagined this adventure would be easier, but after a year of officers training I was in crisis. There was too much discipline; one had to study such a lot and above all there was too much punishment. I thought I was tough but I found myself crying often. So one fine day I packed my bags and left," Carla said.

Gee, no shit? Punishment? Discipline? In the military? And so much studying in an officer accession program! Who would've thunk it?

The stuff about sexual harrassment? Bad. If it's going on, it needs to be stopped ASAP. But this whiney BS? Geez, what did they think the military was? Summer camp?

[Lonestar]

While it's obvious that the Italian military is having TREMENDOUS problems with sexual harassment and integration, the women they interviewed seemed really whiny. "I didn't know I might have to fight" is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard from a member of the armed forces. What do they think they're being paid for? Also, the bit about studying is ridiculous. I think it's pretty clear these women did not have realistic expectations about the military.
.

There was a guy in my Recruit Division at bootcamp like that. He cried every Goddamn day. He missed his wife and kid, and he would be away from them so often. He had signed up to be a STS (sonar tech, sub) and the idiot didn't realise he would be underwater a good portion of the time.

His other thing was "I signed up before 9/11, before the navy was always deployed etc..."

Me: Dude! Don't you watch the news?

Idiot: No.

Me: If you did you'd fucking know that everytime shit goes down somewhere, the words "US aircraft carrier" usually follow. You'd be deployed even if 9/11 hadn't happened, dumbass!


Dumbass.

[RogueIce]

His other thing was "I signed up before 9/11, before the navy was always deployed etc..."

Me: Dude! Don't you watch the news?

Idiot: No.

Me: If you did you'd fucking know that everytime shit goes down somewhere, the words "US aircraft carrier" usually follow. You'd be deployed even if 9/11 hadn't happened, dumbass!


Dumbass.

I sincerely hope he means "deployed" as in to a combat zone, or just more often. Because I'm pretty sure the US Navy didn't just sit in port before 9/11.

[Jalinth]

Linky

*SNIP*

When the woman failed to reply, the officer sent her an unchivalrous message with a one-word sexually explicit epithet.

Translation: "Fuck."

This has got to be the longest, most drawn out method of describing that four letter gem I have ever heard.

"It was traumatic when they cut my hair as short as a boy's. I imagined this adventure would be easier, but after a year of officers training I was in crisis. There was too much discipline; one had to study such a lot and above all there was too much punishment. I thought I was tough but I found myself crying often. So one fine day I packed my bags and left," Carla said.

Gee, no shit? Punishment? Discipline? In the military? And so much studying in an officer accession program! Who would've thunk it?

The stuff about sexual harrassment? Bad. If it's going on, it needs to be stopped ASAP. But this whiney BS? Geez, what did they think the military was? Summer camp?

I've had a couple of women friends who were serious harassed when they simply visited the country. Sounds like a bad movie, but they both said they'd never go back because of it - Spain and Greece were tolerable, but Italy wasn't because of the men. One was 6'2", blond, pretty (so kind of stood out) - the concept of "Go away" or "Drop dead" simply didn't penetrate their brains. This was when she was with a guy friend who was an ex-rugby player (6 feet, big, broad, mean looking - really a nice guy, but can peel off paint with his glare) - so even fear didn't stop many of them.

So I can't say I'm surprised about the harassment and unfortunately you get put in the stockade if you slug your superior. The women they mentioned seem whiny, but what about the men - are they ready to serve or are simply in the military for a walk in the park (is the whining more of a national thing than women only)

[Iceberg]

Me: Dude! Don't you watch the news?

Idiot: No.

Me: If you did you'd fucking know that everytime shit goes down somewhere, the words "US aircraft carrier" usually follow. You'd be deployed even if 9/11 hadn't happened, dumbass!


Dumbass.

FUQ!

[Darth Wong]

There was a guy in my Recruit Division at bootcamp like that. He cried every Goddamn day. He missed his wife and kid, and he would be away from them so often. He had signed up to be a STS (sonar tech, sub) and the idiot didn't realise he would be underwater a good portion of the time.

Ummmm .... why did he sign up? What kind of imbecile signs up to be a sonar operator and doesn't realize his office will be away from home? What was his motivation to join in the first place?

[Ma Deuce]

There was a guy in my Recruit Division at bootcamp like that. He cried every Goddamn day. He missed his wife and kid, and he would be away from them so often. He had signed up to be a STS (sonar tech, sub) and the idiot didn't realise he would be underwater a good portion of the time.

Ummmm .... why did he sign up? What kind of imbecile signs up to be a sonar operator and doesn't realize his office will be away from home? What was his motivation to join in the first place?

Lots of people who sign up seem to have no idea what military service really involves: Remember those two dumbasses who went AWOL from the US military and fled to Canada last year? One of them said that during his basic training, he was "surprised he was being trained to kill"

[Lonestar]

Ummmm .... why did he sign up? What kind of imbecile signs up to be a sonar operator and doesn't realize his office will be away from home? What was his motivation to join in the first place?

Possibly because he was 19 with a 3 yr old Daughter, and the best paying job he could get in a situation like that (while taking care of the kid's health) would be Navy, STS. (Sonar Techs get automatically bumped to E-4 paygrade, which you would normally have to spend time in).

Like I said, he cried every day. I seriously cannot think of a time when he was not crying. Or misty eyed. Or moping around like poor old Eyore. The only time I cried at Boot Camp was when I got a Red Cross letter telling me one of my grandparents died.

[Darth Wong]

Ummmm .... why did he sign up? What kind of imbecile signs up to be a sonar operator and doesn't realize his office will be away from home? What was his motivation to join in the first place?

Possibly because he was 19 with a 3 yr old Daughter, and the best paying job he could get in a situation like that (while taking care of the kid's health) would be Navy, STS. (Sonar Techs get automatically bumped to E-4 paygrade, which you would normally have to spend time in).

Ah, I see. Well, anybody who fathers a child at the age of 16 obviously isn't particularly good at planning ahead.

Like I said, he cried every day. I seriously cannot think of a time when he was not crying. Or misty eyed. Or moping around like poor old Eyore. The only time I cried at Boot Camp was when I got a Red Cross letter telling me one of my grandparents died.

Did anybody tell him to go to Chinatown, buy a dead chicken, and rip out its flimsy little spine so he would finally have a backbone in his possession?

[MKSheppard]

Did anybody tell him to go to Chinatown, buy a dead chicken, and rip out its flimsy little spine so he would finally have a backbone in his possession?

FUQ!

[Lonestar]

Ah, I see. Well, anybody who fathers a child at the age of 16 obviously isn't particularly good at planning ahead.

Actually, it might put him in the "15" slot, which isn't any better.

My other favorite Bitch of his "my Recruiter lied to me." Now, Recruiters may stretch the truth, but 99% of them would never, ever lie to him. Apperently his recruiter said something along the lines of "When I was a bubblehead I was only underway 5 months out of a year." Which might be true. But I'm thinking the Recruiter really was talking about deployment, and the Dumbass somehow construed that as total. I'm from a Military family, and it didn't even occur to him that he would be underway besides deployment until I told him.

("Yeah, for exercises and making sure everything works and stuff")

And one of my Boot buddies (who was going to be a bubblehead too) pointed out that SSBNs didn't surface at all for 3 months, and there's going to be real reliable way to correspond with your shoreside family on a regular basis. Man, his rack was at the other end of the compartment from where I was, and I STILL remember having trouble sleeping because I could hear him crying that night. God Help the submarine he's on if they have to go to war.

Did anybody tell him to go to Chinatown, buy a dead chicken, and rip out its flimsy little spine so he would finally have a backbone in his possession?

Not PC Mike. One of the RDCs (think DIs) told him to stop "crying like a woman 24/7" and the comment somehow made it's way up the chain within a day, and the RDC got in trouble. I sure as Hell didn't tell anyone else, and I suspect most everyone was trying to cover smirks like me.

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

Did anybody tell him to go to Chinatown, buy a dead chicken, and rip out its flimsy little spine so he would finally have a backbone in his possession?

FUQ!

What the hell does that stand for anyway?

[salm]

Did anybody tell him to go to Chinatown, buy a dead chicken, and rip out its flimsy little spine so he would finally have a backbone in his possession?

FUQ!

What the hell does that stand for anyway?

frequently unasked questions, or something.

[Iceberg]

What the hell does that stand for anyway?

Frequently Unasked Questions.

In context, it means that something struck the funnybone of the person saying "FUQ" and that person wishes the quotation in question to be immortalized in the "famous quotes" section of the FUQ.

[Slartibartfast]

What's the point of calling them questions if they ain't questions at all?

[Andrew J.]

What's the point of calling them questions if they ain't questions at all?

It just means that the person thinks the quote is funny enough to go into Dalton's quote archive.

The original FUQ was actually a humorous piece about the old ASVS (a takeoff on the ubiquitous FAQ), but the same site as had a whole host of stuff crop up around it, including the aformentioned quote archive.

The FUQ can be found at http://daltonator.net/fuq