Why vote for Bush?

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-08-07 10:56am

About the only reason I can come up with from the Republicans to vote for Bush is "Don't vote Kerry! He's a flip-flopper! And a war criminal! And... uh... he'll sell you to France!"

What the shit, folks? Is your candidate THAT bereft of promise that the only thing you can do is say "Keep on keepin' on, or you might elect a Democrat"? At least there are solid reasons to vote "against" Bush.

I'll be the first to admit Kerry's kind of a douchebag, but I'll take "douchebag" over "actively evil."

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-08-07 11:21am

We can start with the Kerry-Edwards platform. Any party that endorses a Vice Presidential candidate whose stated opinion on economics is that it’s a moral issue certainly shouldn’t be taken seriously. The rabidly protectionist Kerry-Edwards ticket will only end up costing this country countless billions if elected, paid off in subsidies for companies that will remain unable to compete on the global market, and thus still "go under” within five to ten years regardless of what the White House tries to do for them. Say what you will about Bush, he knew when he had lost the battle to buoy failing industries. Kerry seems to have noticed no such thing, almost as if he’s content to run himself into brick wall after brick wall in the name of keeping one more job in the Rust Belt.

Then there’s security. Kerry has explicitly stated that his primary focus will be on Homeland Security and vague “intelligence cooperation” – meaning that he won’t take the same hard stance that Bush did on the issue of state sponsors of terrorism. Surrendering the initiative and opting for a mostly defensive strategy is nothing but a poor way to keep this country safe.

And finally, there’s the perception. We can’t let the rest of the world believe that as long as they make enough noise, the White House’s occupancy will be pliable. Anti-Americanism will be around for a long time, especially because of the nature of the War on Terror. Too many Americans are letting it seem as if their votes should be dictated by a popularity contest in which only those people in other nations participate.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-08-07 11:23am

*pistol-whips Axis* I said WHY VOTE FOR PRESIDENT BUSH, not WHY VOTE AGAINST JOHN KERRY.

That's the WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF THE GODDAMNED THREAD, you moron! I'm not INTERESTED in the whining about Kerry. I want to know WHY YOU WANT BUSH TO HAVE ANOTHER FOUR YEARS, and "No Kerry" is goddamned well NOT ENOUGH.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-08-07 11:35am

Iceberg wrote:*pistol-whips Axis* I said WHY VOTE FOR PRESIDENT BUSH, not WHY VOTE AGAINST JOHN KERRY.

Well, even what you gave isn't really a reason to vote for Bush, just a reason not to vote for Kerry.

Frankly, the only reasons (and I don't think they're good or apply to me) is if you like corporate welfare and massive subsidies, you're a fundamentalist Christian, or you just like seeing a lot of things getting bombed on FOX news.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2004-08-07 11:36am

Iceberg wrote:and "No Kerry" is goddamned well NOT ENOUGH.

Why not? That seems to be the motivating principle for a vast number of people opposing the President, who are openly lauded here.

At any rate, it was the Kennedies who destroyed the democratic party, and Kerry exists simply as Ted Kennedy's sockpuppet. I have no desire to place the Kennedy wing of the democratic party back into power in the Presidency again, considering the massive--nearly incomprehendable--amount of damage they did to our nation and the direct threats they placed us under by their incompetence.

So go ahead and shout at me, like it matters. Nothing said on this board matters politically, anyway. Everyone here is set in their opinions and it now simply remains to wait and see how many members of the American public in which states have been influenced to those arguments.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-08-07 11:40am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Iceberg wrote:and "No Kerry" is goddamned well NOT ENOUGH.
Why not? That seems to be the motivating principle for a vast number of people opposing the President, who are openly lauded here.

Because the President's actions are demonstrably harmful to the country, and getting rid of a harmful incumbent is a valid approach for a challenging party to take.

If you'll pardon the pun, however, it is incumbent upon the President to sell himself to the voter, and his utter inability to do that is demonstrated in the fact that his campaign is largely focusing on a negative campaign against Kerry as a person, rather than on selling the President's vision for the future.

It's telling of how bereft the President is that even against an admittedly lackluster Democratic challenger and with the most focused media machine in recent electoral history trying its mighty best to get him re-elected, his chances of re-election are at best fifty-fifty.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2004-08-07 11:51am

Iceberg wrote: Because the President's actions are demonstrably harmful to the country, and getting rid of a harmful incumbent is a valid approach for a challenging party to take.

If you'll pardon the pun, however, it is incumbent upon the President to sell himself to the voter, and his utter inability to do that is demonstrated in the fact that his campaign is largely focusing on a negative campaign against Kerry as a person, rather than on selling the President's vision for the future.

It's telling of how bereft the President is that even against an admittedly lackluster Democratic challenger and with the most focused media machine in recent electoral history trying its mighty best to get him re-elected, his chances of re-election are at best fifty-fifty.

Well I suppose your brave new future isn't quite upon us yet. I am glad I shall not have to live in it. Everything that is old is new again. You're just another screeching madman shouting out the benefits of yet another populist while hissing about dignity and gravity and how your patron's opponent lacks both, while protraying the image of one of the insane.

The crass populism of one side does not negate reprehensible nature of the crass populism of the other side. Elections have for a long time in this country now consisted of base emotional appeals, and trying to claim that one side has the advantage in this or is doing better than the other in it is in itself largely a demonstration of one's partisan bias. I am writing this in the full knowledge that it will be ignored, because you are mentally capable of doing nothing other than the rote support of your candidate. I do not care.

Really, the whole exercise is grimly amusing. We are falling down the same spiralled, heady paths as the Roman Republic, to chaos and destruction, and it is arrogant of us to think that our latest brand of democracy has any particular qualities that will save it. Very arrogant indeed, when history teaches such a stern and clear lesson, available for all to see if they simply bothered to look, which nobody of course shall do. I am, at any rate, simply going to wait for our Augustus to come along and shut you all up.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-08-07 11:56am

*pistol-whips Axis* I said WHY VOTE FOR PRESIDENT BUSH, not WHY VOTE AGAINST JOHN KERRY.

That's the WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF THE GODDAMNED THREAD, you moron! I'm not INTERESTED in the whining about Kerry. I want to know WHY YOU WANT BUSH TO HAVE ANOTHER FOUR YEARS, and "No Kerry" is goddamned well NOT ENOUGH.

Isn't it clear?

Obviously, I think Bush's economic policies are still more sound than those of John Kerry.

Obviously, I think it's Bush who has the right idea about national security. But how can I justify it in the first place as something to get excited about without comparing it to Kerry's?

Obviously, I think a loss for Bush would too much embolden and give the wrong idea to anti-American groups worldwide, whose voices I doubt will get much softer contrary to what seems to be the popular belief here among those who support John Kerry.

If you want to continue whining hypocritically as Marina has already pointed out, however, that's your call ...

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-08-07 11:59am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Well I suppose your brave new future isn't quite upon us yet. I am glad I shall not have to live in it. Everything that is old is new again. You're just another screeching madman shouting out the benefits of yet another populist while hissing about dignity and gravity and how your patron's opponent lacks both, while protraying the image of one of the insane.

Marina, listen to yourself for once.

I am asking why somebody should vote FOR BUSH. It is a very specific request. "Kerry is a douchebag" is NOT a sufficient reason to vote for Bush because there are many candidates in the electoral system besides John Kerry and George Bush.

It's impossible to talk to you anymore because since 9/11 your brain has gotten so locked in the pattern of "SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT OR WE WILL ALL DIE" that you've completely disconnected from rational thought. You're as verbose as ever, but the words don't connect into a way that makes sense in any but the most narrowly focused thought pattern.

I'm sorry that it's come to this. I'm sorry that you've degenerated into a raving madwoman who lashes out at her friends at the slightest provocation, save for those who share or condone her madness. I do not share this madness and I will not condone it, so I suppose we must part ways until this madness has burnt itself out of you. But I still consider you my friend and when you are rational again, I will be there.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-08-07 12:01pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote: Really, the whole exercise is grimly amusing. We are falling down the same spiralled, heady paths as the Roman Republic, to chaos and destruction, and it is arrogant of us to think that our latest brand of democracy has any particular qualities that will save it. Very arrogant indeed, when history teaches such a stern and clear lesson, available for all to see if they simply bothered to look, which nobody of course shall do. I am, at any rate, simply going to wait for our Augustus to come along and shut you all up.

Another startling insight into the mind of Marina. Scary, as always.

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » 2004-08-07 12:01pm

Vympel wrote:
The Duchess of Zeon wrote: Really, the whole exercise is grimly amusing. We are falling down the same spiralled, heady paths as the Roman Republic, to chaos and destruction, and it is arrogant of us to think that our latest brand of democracy has any particular qualities that will save it. Very arrogant indeed, when history teaches such a stern and clear lesson, available for all to see if they simply bothered to look, which nobody of course shall do. I am, at any rate, simply going to wait for our Augustus to come along and shut you all up.
Another startling insight into the mind of Marina. Scary, as always.

The truth normally is.

KrauserKrauser · Post by **KrauserKrauser** » 2004-08-07 12:06pm

Honestly my first reaction to this topic was: "Because Kerry is a douchebag."

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-08-07 12:07pm

Vympel wrote:
The Duchess of Zeon wrote: Really, the whole exercise is grimly amusing. We are falling down the same spiralled, heady paths as the Roman Republic, to chaos and destruction, and it is arrogant of us to think that our latest brand of democracy has any particular qualities that will save it. Very arrogant indeed, when history teaches such a stern and clear lesson, available for all to see if they simply bothered to look, which nobody of course shall do. I am, at any rate, simply going to wait for our Augustus to come along and shut you all up.
Another startling insight into the mind of Marina. Scary, as always.

Now now, don't dismiss it as another of Marina's insane commentaries. I assume that an American Caesar would come with suitable campaigns against our northern barbarians neighbors. *gives Canada an evil grin*

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2004-08-07 12:11pm

Vympel wrote:
Another startling insight into the mind of Marina. Scary, as always.

*shrugs* Concerns over civil rights abound on this board. I am looking at the current situation in the world and in the country and drawing the conclusion that my knowledge of history leads me to. It has left me with the conclusion that democracy is far, far more vulnerable than I once believed (if you recall at one recent time I adherened to a basically Hegelian philosophy). I am not quite sure yet what that means in the long term, but the comparison is convenient enough to use when talking to madmen.

I would gladly vote for a democratic candidate in this election, but the only democrats worth voting for are dead. I might vote for the President, but even that seems superflous, as I am living in a state that I know will be won by Kerry. So I prefer to simply be honest about the fact I am watching something I have no control over, and in the meantime perhaps do something worthwhile in the offline world for the coming generation, regardless of what happens.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2004-08-07 12:13pm

Iceberg wrote: I'm sorry that it's come to this. I'm sorry that you've degenerated into a raving madwoman who lashes out at her friends at the slightest provocation, save for those who share or condone her madness. I do not share this madness and I will not condone it, so I suppose we must part ways until this madness has burnt itself out of you. But I still consider you my friend and when you are rational again, I will be there.

You are the madman, Sir. I am perfectly sane. But the insane live in worlds of their own, and the glass between us is not going to be broken.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-08-07 12:16pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote: You are the madman, Sir. I am perfectly sane. But the insane live in worlds of their own, and the glass between us is not going to be broken.

I assume that the incredible irony of this statement is not lost on you.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-08-07 12:21pm

Lemme see ... first our Duchess fires off a bog-stock Golden Mean fallacy, then for her second salvo, she launches into a nihilistic diatribe against the entire underpinnings of modern western civilization. Perhaps she needs a hug?

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-08-07 12:23pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:I assume that the incredible irony of this statement is not lost on you.

Marina's phobia of degeneration and decay was shared by Adolf Hitler. Hitler was absolutely, completely and utterly terrified that miscegeny and modernism were going to destroy Germany. And to save Germany, he destroyed it, and in doing so, created a new synonym for state-sponsored evil. I will not condone those who wish to destroy the United States of America in order to save it. If destruction be our lot, we will meet it as Citizens of a free Republic, not as subjects of an Empire burning itself out in an orgy of global destruction, fearing the death and decay of ourselves even as we further it.

I'd sooner see the word "Bushism" conjure up the image of a tongue-tied, buffoonish politician than it be mentioned in the same breath as Naziism.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-08-07 12:26pm

Iceberg wrote:Marina's phobia of degeneration and decay was shared by Adolf Hitler. Hitler was absolutely, completely and utterly terrified that miscegeny and modernism were going to destroy Germany. And to save Germany, he destroyed it, and in doing so, created a new synonym for state-sponsored evil. I will not condone those who wish to destroy the United States of America in order to save it. If destruction be our lot, we will meet it as Citizens of a free Republic, not as subjects of an Empire burning itself out in an orgy of global destruction, fearing the death and decay of ourselves even as we further it.

I'd sooner see the word "Bushism" conjure up the image of a tongue-tied, buffoonish politician than it be mentioned in the same breath as Naziism.

Well, that wasn't what I was getting at.

What I meant was that if he statement is true that the insane live in their own little worlds, then she has no means to demonstrate that her first statement, that she is sane, is true. After all, even the guys who think that the RAND corporation put computer chips in everyones head during the late 80s think they are completely sane, everyone else is crazy or ignorant or THEM, and that they've got loads of evidence. Thus making her statement so deliciously ironic that it's begging to be put in my sig to preserve it as the gem it is.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2004-08-07 12:33pm

Darth Wong wrote:Lemme see ... first our Duchess fires off a bog-stock Golden Mean fallacy, then for her second salvo, she launches into a nihilistic diatribe against the entire underpinnings of modern western civilization. Perhaps she needs a hug?

I am not saying that the underpinnings of modern western civilization are incorrect. I am saying that they may fail on an individual basis--in this case, inside the United States--for internal reasons.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-08-07 12:35pm

People vote for Bush because they are Republican, and they vote Republican.

No, I am not joking. People have told me this with a straight face.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2004-08-07 12:36pm

Iceberg wrote: Marina's phobia of degeneration and decay was shared by Adolf Hitler. Hitler was absolutely, completely and utterly terrified that miscegeny and modernism were going to destroy Germany. And to save Germany, he destroyed it, and in doing so, created a new synonym for state-sponsored evil. I will not condone those who wish to destroy the United States of America in order to save it. If destruction be our lot, we will meet it as Citizens of a free Republic, not as subjects of an Empire burning itself out in an orgy of global destruction, fearing the death and decay of ourselves even as we further it.

I'd sooner see the word "Bushism" conjure up the image of a tongue-tied, buffoonish politician than it be mentioned in the same breath as Naziism.

The problem with people in this thread is that they appear to believe I condone what I think is going to happen simply because I do not believe any action I could take against it would be effectual.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-08-07 12:51pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:People vote for Bush because they are Republican, and they vote Republican.

No, I am not joking. People have told me this with a straight face.

I can confirm this as well.

In addition, the majority of the people I've asked (those who've put something resembling thought into it) say they think that dispite all the mistakes, and dispite the entire Iraq mess and dispite whatever he's done to domestic civil rights; they feel that they're oh-so-much safer than they were during the Clinton years and oh-so-much safer than they would be under Kerry.

It's security.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2004-08-07 01:10pm

I can only assume whoever votes for Bush agrees with him. And this shit about "Oh i dont agree with his (insert subject) but i'll vote Bush because Kerry is a dickhead" is horseshit. IMO. People just dont want to admit they love the idea of a racist, right-wing thocracy ruling the country in public. So they imediately try to delude themselves by claiming they're not voting for Bush but against Kerry

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-08-07 01:54pm

Iceberg wrote:It's impossible to talk to you anymore because since 9/11 your brain has gotten so locked in the pattern of "SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT OR WE WILL ALL DIE" that you've completely disconnected from rational thought.

Likewise, with you and your WE MUST REMOVE BUSH OR ELSE WE'RE
ALL GOING TO DIE! train of thought, Icey. Really, take a nice shot of
whiskey, take a nice nap, and come back when you're rational again.

Really, Bush has been a sort of disappointment as far as
conservative principles go; he's been spending like a drunken sailor,
but the consequences of a democrat government during wartime
are simply too terrifying to consider.

This is a steel cage match between fanatical Islam and the secular west
to the death. Either theirs or ours. If you think otherwise, you're just
deluding yourself.