Capital Ships & Star Wars Production

[Kitsune]

This covers a bit of territory which has been previosuly discussed but I am trying to get something clear.

According to SD.net, there is at least 1 million planets in the Star Wars and a more likely number of 12 million planets.

I am also read 25,000 Star Destroyers. Is that just "Imperial / Imperitor" class Star Destroyers or does that also include Victory class Star Destroyers? When all smaller classes of vessels are added up (Blockade Runner and Larger), how many ships do people estimate there are in the imperial fleet?

I am kind of looking for a guestimate breakdown of forces

[Lord Pounder]

This has been addressed many times in the past. The Dutches of Zeon here had some very good calculation on the matter. Also it was a hell of a lot more than 25000 ISD's.

[phongn]

The 25000-odd SD estimate refers only to ISDs, not any other ship. IIRC, HDS here has estimated a low-end Imperial Starfleet as ~10 million ships.

[Kitsune]

This has been addressed many times in the past. The Dutches of Zeon here had some very good calculation on the matter. Also it was a hell of a lot more than 25000 ISD's.

Ok, so where are these calculation and how many Star Destroyers are being suggested. I was simply using Mike's numbers for the number of ISD.

[Kitsune]

The 25000-odd SD estimate refers only to ISDs, not any other ship. IIRC, HDS here has estimated a low-end Imperial Starfleet as ~10 million ships.

HDS?

I don't have a problem with the ~10 million ship number, I am just trying to find out what it consist of. For example, is it mostly blockade runner sized ships?

[phongn]

Marina's estimate:

The official revision of the Imperial Starfleet and Navy Upper Limit size estimates is now in. Herein I will admit to, albeit most vaguely, attempt to give measure to the larger possible size of the Galactic Empire's Starfleet and Navy.

The following figures are based on the WEG "One Million Member Worlds and 50 million Colonies, Protectorates and Governorships" statement in the primary sourcebook. Specific types listed therein are rended down to vague class generalizations of broadly "Saxonian" style.

Sector Group: 2 Mobile Deepdocks; 120 very heavy repair ships; 2,260 noncombatant resupply ships; 240 torpedo spheres; 28,372 Corvettes/Gunships/Light Frigates 101-449 meters long; 11,902 heavy frigates/light destroyers 450- 1,000 meters long; 80 heavy Destroyers 1,001-1,600 meters long.

This calculation is using the maximum augmented figures for a sector group as listed in the Imperial Sourcebook.

We can presume that since the book is set immediately after Yavin, and considering Imperial manufacturing capabilities as based on the second Death Star, that these fleet levels could have been reached in each Sector Group. The total tally shall follow.

Sector Groups (Total): 3,200 mobile deepdocks, 192,000 very heavy repair ships; 3,616,000 noncombatant resupply ships; 384,000 torpedo spheres; 45,395,200 Corvettes/Gunships/Light Frigates 101-449 meters long; 19,043,200 heavy frigates/light destroyers 450-1,000 meters long; 128,000 heavy Destroyers 1,001- 1,600 meters long.

Based on the 1,026 Sector estimate from the Phantom Menace (Number of saucers in the senate building), and giving it a total of 1,600 Sector Groups. This in turn is based on a rough estimate of the number of Sector Groups assigned to "Oversectors" (Which can vary from two to a score, and the number of Grand Moffs is implied to be not unsizeable), 250 Sector Groups hidden in the Unknown Regions, those hidden in the Deep Core, and any additional sectors that might have been added since the time of The Phantom Menace -- We know that the Empire, unlike the Republic, engaged openly in expansion and added numerous territories quite openly in several regions. Obviously the largest increase is the direct official statement in Vision of the Future saying the Empire has hidden away the military forces of 250 sectors in the Unknown Regions.. If not colonized that many sectors outright!

Colonies, Protectorates and Governorship defence fleets: 225,000,000 (Alternatively: 300,000,000) Corvettes/Gunships/Light Frigates 101-449 meters long; 225,000,000 (Alternatively: 300,000,000) Non-Hyperdrive equipped light picket ships; 50,000,000 multipurpose defence stations.

These figures use the Bakuran defence force of two 350 meter light frigates (Carrack Cruisers) and four 125 meter gunships, along with one multipurpose orbital station (As per the Truce at Baruka novel), and a patrol group of 6 IPV-1 picket ships that was mentioned in the Truce at Bakura sourcebook by WEG. It should be noted that Bakura is in fact a less than average colony/protectorate. It has one industry of particular interest, but not major (It produced novelty repulsorlift equipment), and a small population, less than a billion... 400-650 million, IIRC. Irrelevant, virtually, on the scale of galactic civilization with planets like Coruscant that have a population of 650 trillion beings.

If the Galactic equivalent of a small town in Alaska that makes custom landrovers is guarded by that force, I would consider it rather conservative to assume all other minor planets also have such protection. It is, however, a vast assumption. We know that other planets of a similiar nature were unguarded in other books, but for the most part we only see them post-Endor, when the warlords were massing fleets and expending them fighting each other on a vast scale. Our ability to rate Imperial defence forces is better typified by what is shown pre-Endor, only. Bakura represents a good baseline; other examples could and will be used to improve the figure. For major worlds, like Coruscant and other core worlds, I used the two Golan-IIIs as a firepower representation; this being based on the two guarding Coruscant that were presumably captured from the Empire, during The Krytos Trap. The heavy Destroyers (ISDs) are based on the assumption that the two left behind by Ysanne Isard were part of Coruscant's defence fleet. There was no reason to leave them behind otherwise; considering how few ships she had, she needed them badly. It would only make sense to leave them behind if they were part of Coruscant's traditional defence fleet, and if the crews, perhaps part of a local naval militia, would have been unreliable or simply refused to have followed her away from the world. The height of illogic would have typified the act otherwise. This figure also has limited support from several comics as well that suggest at least one ISD or heavy destroyer type is stationed above many other major worlds at all times. The rest of the fleet is assumed to be identical to that in size and ship-types to a colony world's fleet for the maximum conservativism, assuming that the heavier platforms and ships are added on for the member worlds to that standard fleet. Should computer games be added as official material, the number of platforms could be increased by around x3.

Member World defence fleets: 2,000,000 heavy Destroyers 1,001- 1,600 meters long; 6,000,000 Corvettes/Gunships/Light Frigates 101-449 meters long; 6,000,000 Non-hyperdrive equipped light picket ships; 2,000,000 Golan-III Battlestations (Or firepower equivalent in larger number of smaller stations.); 1,000,000 multipurpose defence stations.



Imperial Navy:

25,000 heavy Destroyers 1,001-1,600 meters long; 5,000 light/medium Cruisers 1,601 meters long to 4,999 meters long; 5,000 heavy Cruisers/Battlecruisers/Carriers/Battleships/Commandships 5,000 meters to 17,600+ meters long (Estimated Max superlaser equipped: 250.) Also: 6+ Torpedo Spheres.

Beginning basis in the "25,000 ISD" claim from WEG for the Imperial Navy. This claim was highly odd, because WEG's own figures suggest a minimum of 128,000 ISDs in their own Order of Battle. Likewise was the claim that only 6 Torpedo Spheres were in service bizzare when the Order of Battle suggested potentially over 300,000 Torpedo Spheres (Which made me conclude the idea of finding weaknesses in planetary shields was hogwash; with one bombardment fleet and one assault fleet, you'd have 200 Torpedo spheres, IE, 10,000 proton torpedoes a salvo, firing at the shields. That would batter them down using pure firepower, especially if the other armed ships joined in.). I chose a different interpretation. The 6 Torpedo Spheres and 25,000 ISDs are in the "Imperial Navy" according to WEG. In the Canon movies, it's always called the "Imperial Starfleet".
Considering this difference, in which you seem to have references to the Imperial Starfleet, and the context there refers to a body which is just that - the Imperial Starfleet as a space going naval force - one has to think that perhaps it is something different from the Imperial Navy, which may be a specific arm, something like the Grand Armada, a centralized and elite force of heavy ships.

Working out from this I concluded that the Imperial Starfleet has far more ISDs and Torpedo Spheres than those listed, while there is a group within the Imperial Starfleet specifically devoted to heavy combat engagements as opposed to "Coast Guard" duties that the Sector Groups and planetary defence forces do. This fleet contains the 25,000 ISDs and 6 Torpedo Spheres (perhaps more by the time of the Battle of Endor). It quite possibly also contains the following ships:

A minimum of 5,000 ships larger than ISDs, which is based on the five ISD escort for the Executor. We don't have any reason to assume that Lord Vader's squadron was a-typical, and it seemed to be constituted in a normal fashion, patrolling for rebels like any other part of the fleet might do. It also maintained that concentration during the time it was seen.

However, according to one computer game (Which are official according to Curtis Saxton's interpretation; by the rules of the FAQ, disregard the 10,000 figure and use the 5,000 figure), a ESB Arcade Game, another ship larger than an Imperator participated at Hoth, namely, in the search for the Falcon, though it was not at the initial attack. (It is possible it had a slower Hyperdrive, and in Lord Vader's haste, he left it behind.) I concluded then that three of the ISDs would be the Executor's escort, and two that of the other ship. From this, I derived the 10,000 heavy ship figure, split evenly between light and medium cruisers and vessels larger than that. The Six torpedo spheres are in three bombard lines of two spheres each, with the potential for more by the Battle of Endor. The superlaser guesstimate was based on a comparison of Sovereign/Eclipse and Executor numbers, and assumes that Superlaser equipped non-battlestation vessels would exist pre-Endor. They may in fact still be necessary to bring some of the higher-end firepower calculations in line with the AOTC:ICS firepower data, despite the size of this fleet, which is one of the reasons I included that for consideration.

Totals for the Imperial Starfleet: 3,200 mobile deepdocks, 192,000 very heavy repair ships; 3,616,000 noncombatant resupply ships; 384,006 torpedo spheres; 276,395,200 (Or 351,395,200) Corvettes/Gunships/Light Frigates 101-449 meters long; 231,000,000 (alternatively: 306,000,000) Non-hyperdrive equipped light picket ships; 19,043,200 heavy frigates/light Destroyers 450-1,000 meters long; 2,153,000 heavy Destroyers 1,001-1,600 meters long; 5,000 light/medium Cruisers 1,601 meters long to 4,999 meters long; 5,000 heavy Cruisers / Battlecruisers / Carriers / Battleships / Commandships 5,000 meters to 17,600+ meters long (Estimated max superlaser equipped: 250; Percentage of known Executors against Eclipses/Sovereigns as a comparison); 51,000,000 multipurpose defence stations; 2,000,000 Golan-III Battlestations; Other Support ships / Stations / Outposts: Unknown. Possibly as many as three times that number of defence outposts, based on the computer games, or even more, but that is not admissible evidence at ASVS at least, so they have been left out.

This is everything added together, and separated by ship type, as you can see. The total number of combat ships is around: 378,000,000 of all types (Rounded), roughly, plus 306,000,000 non-hyperspace capable picket ships, still capable of fighting of course, just no hyperdrives; some 51,000,000 platforms, plus many more we do not have accurate figures for. Also, around 4,000,000 resupply and support ships that are unarmed, and probably a lot more we have no accurate figures for, and finally 3,200 mobile Deepdocks, plus all the non-mobile construction / repair facilities that we cannot accurately guess of in total numbers.

Here's the stunning conclusion: In a total of all Hyperspace capable combat starships over 100 meters in length, divided among the 51,000,000 potential inhabited worlds of the WEG quote, we get an average of around 7, that's right, only seven ships PER INHABITED PLANET. I sincerely hope this gives you a true sense of the scope and scale of the Galactic Empire. In terms of an invasion force, only the Imperial Navy, with its 6+ Torpedo Spheres, 25,000 heavy Destroyers, and 5,000-10,000 Cruiser / Battleship / Carrier / Command rated ships would be realistically capable of entering and invading another galaxy.

The other 378,000,000 combat starships would have to stay in their home galaxy to police it against rebels, pirates, smugglers, terrorists, and potential yet highly unlikely enemy raids from the invaded galaxy or the unknown regions (Or, of course, a Vong arrival). Considering that the Imperial Navy is the only truly mobile force out of all these ships, the Galactic Empire would have essentially zero offensive capacity in its own galaxy during an invasion; only defence, except for the direct pacification of known, rebelling planets, and small operations within sectors. Any large scale offensive against the rebels or Unknown Region species would be impossible with the Imperial Navy committed to another galaxy; the Starfleet would just have to hold the line until the pacification either succeeded or failed and the Navy returned, or what was left of it. Of course, this assumes that the galaxy to be pacified requires the commitment of the entire Navy.

Essentially, the Empire is a massive organization in terms of pure numbers; but the necessity of guarding 1,000,000 major planets and 50,000,000 minor planets cuts so considerably into these numbers that no more than on the order of 25,000 destroyers, 5,000 cruisers, and 5,000 capital ships, supported by 6+ mobile bombardment platforms, could be used for an invasion, or rallied in one place to stop one. This is probably the fleet under Vader's command that was far-flung throughout the galaxy looking for the Rebels. He likely chose one region of space for himself, with the Grand Admirals taking the others, or administrating the Starfleet, which is unlikely considering it is an asset for the military governors, not the true navy with the above ships. One should think of the Persian system of governing, with Satrapies under the Great King, and each Satrap ruling sub-governors in turn, and all of them capable of mustering their own military forces, to understand the Galactic Empire in the proper context. Of course, local area ships could be, in an emergency, gathered to stand with this fleet, but such is likely to be necessary. After the collapse of the Empire, the individual Moffs and their ilk took control of the portions of the Starfleet and fought to the death, while the Grand Admirals also turned warlord, and more ships were hidden in the Deep Core for the clone of the Emperor, explaining the destruction of this once awesome fleet, through fratricidal combat.

Note that I welcome revision to these calcs, and they are admittedly on shaky ground, but the simple facts are that they match up with the known evidence about the size of the Empire, and a fleet necessary to patrol and defend said Empire, and also explain the huge inconsistencies in both official and canon material. Finally, there is one last thing to note. The Empire built the Death Star. An object that, when complete, would have massed as much as fifty billion Galaxy class Starships. Now, granted, an ISD masses considerably more than a GCS, but not remotely enough to make these figures implausible -- For the whole mass of this fleet is quite possibly less than that of the two death stars combined!

378,000,000 combat starships and 306,000,000 sublight picket starships may then indeed be a conservative estimate. It assumes that the average mass of each of those ships is somewhere on the order of seven (7) times the mass of a Galaxy Class Starship... If the entire Imperial Warship production line is only comparable to the completed Death Star II! Considering that 306,000,000 are 150 meter long sublight pickets, this is obviously not the case. Certainly some of the starships will be massive, but none larger than an Eclipse, and those are limited to some 5,000 capital ships even approaching that size. I would say that this fleet's existence is made reasonable by the existence of the Death Star II alone, if for no other reason.

Incidentally, the total number of crewers required for this fleet comes out as very roughly 40% of the population of Coruscant. (Assuming the accepted figure of 650 trillion people). Considering the number of worlds the Empire has.. Even with an army, they're still ridiculously under-militarized.

Again, the comparison with the Persian Empire fits. The Grand Moffs are like Satraps, the Moffs like the regional governors, and then the system governors under them like local chieftans or rulers of cities. In every case they were capable of raising their own militaries by their own expense, and had a duty to do so in time of war. They could even declare war on their own, and conduct some diplomacy with foreign powers. Obviously the Empire is more centralized, but the idea of the Starfleet consisting of a huge number of ships under a largely decentralized organization, with an elite central core, like the Immortals and Apple Guards of the central Persian Empire, can best be understood in this context. The Grand Moffs and Moffs, then, are kept in line by their rivalries, and by their mutual hatred for each other - or by fear of assassination (What do you think Mara Jade was for?) or outright acts. As a last resort, the military force of the concentrated navy, and those Moffs or Grand Moffs which hate one who should revolt, would serve to overwhelm.

Indeed, the Emperor, it has been stated in official material, appointed people as Moffs and Grand Moffs who hated each other's guts. This supports my theory, as having all the Moffs and Grand Moffs hating each other would make it easier for the Emperor to rule, as they would have only him to turn to, and could not form pacts among themselves. Also, this supports the Starfleet/Navy separation contention. In A New Hope, it's commented that the Rebellion poses a threat "To your Starfleet" but not to "This Battlestation". This is at a meeting held by the Grand Moff Tarkin. I would think that, since the word "Starfleet" is used in the movie in cases like this, while Navy is only seen around the 25,000 ISD figure, that it provides further support: The Admiral in question was the commander of Grand Moff Tarkin's personal Starfleet, which was separate from the Navy, and hence called a Starfleet. Rather simple, when you consider it. That's why it was referred to as a Starfleet there, but in the books, especially around the 25,000 ISD figures, it's called a navy.

As for the argument that the WEG stats I am using reflect goals of the Imperial Starfleet, not what was actually completed, consider this: the WEG Imperial Sourcebook is set immediately after the Battle of Yavin. Remember the speed at which an object the mass of 50 billion Galaxy class Starships was built... In six months, 25 billion GCS masses were assembled by the Empire. And all I'm arguing is that the Empire could have built on the order of 120 million starships in 3.5 years... Far less expenditure than the Death Star, even were they to mass a hundred times the mass of a GCS, each, which the average Imperial starship, built for customs and picket duty, obviously does not.

(I assume the other 258 million Hyperdrive equipped ships were already in service based on the ratios between minimum and optimal sizes for the sector fleets. Even if none of the non-hyperspace equipped ships had been built yet, their total is such that they and the 120 million starships in 3.5 years would still fall well below the production capability of the Empire as required for the DS II.)

Observing this, it seems that the industrial capability of the Empire is more than up to the task, and the Empire moreover needs these ships to police its borders. The evidence is rather circumstantial, I admit, but I would contend it does point towards the fleet size I have estimated above.

I would request such data and suggestions as might refine the estimates.

[Master of Ossus]

The 25000-odd SD estimate refers only to ISDs, not any other ship. IIRC, HDS here has estimated a low-end Imperial Starfleet as ~10 million ships.

HDS?

His Divine Shadow. He's a frequent poster and contributer to this website and others.

I don't have a problem with the ~10 million ship number, I am just trying to find out what it consist of. For example, is it mostly blockade runner sized ships?

IIRC, he calculated that those were at least frigate-class ships.

[Kitsune]

His Divine Shadow. He's a frequent poster and contributer to this website and others.

Thanks

IIRC, he calculated that those were at least frigate-class ships.

What would be their approximate size compared to a stardestroyer?

[Solauren]

And those numbers are based on only 1 million inhabited worlds and 50,000,000 colonies, not the 20,000,000 major worlds Han implied in the Dark Empire Graphic novel, and a rather moderate sector count.

[President Sharky]

Han just said 12 million inhabited systems. The great majority of them were probably small settlements that were completely ignored by the Empire. 1 million were member worlds and there were 50 million colonies spread out across those systems. Remember that a system can have more than one member world.

[Executor]

Han just said 12 million inhabited systems. The great majority of them were probably small settlements that were completely ignored by the Empire. 1 million were member worlds and there were 50 million colonies spread out across those systems. Remember that a system can have more than one member world.

its 1 million member systems and 50 million inhabited systems-colonies, protectorates etc. the 12 milllion systems from Dark Empire makes sense since the empire is only a quarter of its former size in Dark empire

[Executor]

The 25000-odd SD estimate refers only to ISDs, not any other ship. IIRC, HDS here has estimated a low-end Imperial Starfleet as ~10 million ships.

HDS used the threat dossier I believe, using the 500 odd ship count for the 5th fleet, and having the 1st-4th fleets the same a mulitplying by 5000, this gives you 12.5 million ships.
From the same book you can get a figure of 838 million ships. Its states a NR Defence force fleet is the same size as an Imperial Fully Augmented Sector Group but covers a whole region. There are 4 fleets(the 1st-4th)with no given number unlike the 5th fleet(with is maybe the NR quick response fleet. So far you have 4 fleets the size of fully augmented sector groups, the empire had 5000 times as many ships, giving it a total of 20,000 Sector groups, or the following:

1,600,000 ISD
21,840,000 VSD
43,680,000 Heavy Cruisers
108,760,000 Medium Cruisers
134,080,000 Light Cruisers
463,480,000 Corvettes
7,040,000 Escort Frigates
46,240,000 Escort Carriers
3,800,000 Interdictors
5,120,000 Troop Transports
2,400,000 Torpedo Spheres
1,760,000 Tech Transports
20,000,000 Supply Ships
40,000 Deepdocks
15,600,000 Support Ships

838,040,000 Total Ships
1,590,827,120,000 Total Crew
295,841,760,000+ Total Troops
6,548,800,000+ Total Fighters

I personaly thinks it bigger then this.

[vakundok]

HDS used the threat dossier I believe, using the 500 odd ship count for the 5th fleet, and having the 1st-4th fleets the same a mulitplying by 5000, this gives you 12.5 million ships.

Where have you got that 5000 from?
Originaly each sector consisted 1000 inhabited worlds. But it was long long before the Empire.

[Executor]

HDS used the threat dossier I believe, using the 500 odd ship count for the 5th fleet, and having the 1st-4th fleets the same a mulitplying by 5000, this gives you 12.5 million ships.

Where have you got that 5000 from?
Originaly each sector consisted 1000 inhabited worlds. But it was long long before the Empire.

Craken Threat Dossier says that the Empire had more ships then the NR by a factor of 5,000.

Sectors originaly contain 50 inhabited worlds and yes a long time before the empire maybe at the forming of the OR

[FTeik]

I always viewed the "12 million systems" from DE as consisting of the one million major worlds and the eleven million being the most important or well known colonies.

Personally i doubt, that there were more than 100 million ships in the entire fleet and more than 300,000 ISDs.

Even if the empire would have been able to built billions of ships (and billions of ships aren´t the same as building a single DS), it would have great problems to crew them all in a sufficent frame of time.

Trained officers and crewers don´t grow on trees.

[consequences]

Personally i doubt, that there were more than 100 million ships in the entire fleet and more than 300,000 ISDs.

Even if the empire would have been able to built billions of ships (and billions of ships aren´t the same as building a single DS), it would have great problems to crew them all in a sufficent frame of time.

Trained officers and crewers don´t grow on trees.

No, building billions of ships is potentially easier than building two(potentially three, or maybe five depending on how you count them) Death Stars. Each ship is a spectacularly easier engineering task. The total power required is nearly the same(1E33 joules per second for the DS1 at a minimum, at least 60 times that for the DS2 IIRC), so the fueling requirements will be similar.

Crew and officers left over from the Clone Wars as a cadre, as well as the absorption of most local defense forces into the Imperial military. Recruiting programs initiated during the Clone Wars left in place and expanded. Your hundred million ships and 300K ISDs would take 1.715 trillion personnel at the most, presuming that every lesser ship was a hideously overcrewed Dreadnaught. This is a quarter of a percent of the population of Coruscant, and you think a galactic civilisation won't be able to come up with the numbers?

[Armored Goldbar]

This is a quarter of a percent of the population of Coruscant, and you think a galactic civilisation won't be able to come up with the numbers?

To use a modern analogy: The American military, on a strictly volunteer basis, fields more than 100% of the population of Washingon, DC (based on a population of 607,000 in 1990 census). If one uses the better example of New York, whose population was 7.3 million in 1990, then you're looking at the neighborhood of 1.8 million men under arms. Although I don't have the figures in front of me, I'm pretty sure that one the American military (when counting reserves, the Coast Guard, and all branches) exceeds that number. I think the Empire can crew her ships.

[Ender]

I did some calcs once that showed a total number of nonfighter ships at 1*10^9, and based off the 1950's american navy, a breakdown of most types. We had a good sized debate over it between me, IP, and Alyeska, and it ended up meshing with most other estimates of Imperial and Rebel fleet strength over time.

[FTeik]

Personally i doubt, that there were more than 100 million ships in the entire fleet and more than 300,000 ISDs.

Even if the empire would have been able to built billions of ships (and billions of ships aren´t the same as building a single DS), it would have great problems to crew them all in a sufficent frame of time.

Trained officers and crewers don´t grow on trees.

No, building billions of ships is potentially easier than building two(potentially three, or maybe five depending on how you count them) Death Stars. Each ship is a spectacularly easier engineering task. The total power required is nearly the same(1E33 joules per second for the DS1 at a minimum, at least 60 times that for the DS2 IIRC), so the fueling requirements will be similar.

I once shared this point of view, until i got into a discussion with, i think it was Cmdr.Wilkens.

Compared to the DS billions of ships with the same volume, if put together will have a much greater surface, what means a lot more weapons, shield-projectors and so on. Not to forget billions of hyperspace-transciever, scanners, reactors in comparison to a limited number of those on the DS (like its one, single reactor).

Crew and officers left over from the Clone Wars as a cadre, as well as the absorption of most local defense forces into the Imperial military. Recruiting programs initiated during the Clone Wars left in place and expanded. Your hundred million ships and 300K ISDs would take 1.715 trillion personnel at the most, presuming that every lesser ship was a hideously overcrewed Dreadnaught. This is a quarter of a percent of the population of Coruscant, and you think a galactic civilisation won't be able to come up with the numbers?

You also need people in the army, you need people managing the logistics (how many people serving in the military of today see combat and how many do logistics, administration ...?), you have people on vacation ...

Keep also in mind, that the empire with its "humans-only"-policies can´t or won´t use non-human personal of absorbed defense-fleets or would recruit non-humans, who make up a large percentage of the galactic population.

We also don´t know, what kind of volunteers the empire wants in its forces. It is possible, that people are screened for being easy to influence and to corrupt and that the recruiteers are also looking for people, who already have a sadistic or ruthless attitude.

Aside from that, we have official sources, that tell us, that the empire has large problems to build up its fleet to a desired level. For once Grandmoff Tarkin´s letter to Palpatine in the ISB and the ANH-novelisation/radiodrama, where we learn, that the empire has already started to conscript people from the merchant-academy.

The fact, that in HttE the Chimera has to work with conscripts also indicates, that the imperial forces pre-Endor preferred volunteers.

[consequences]

I once shared this point of view, until i got into a discussion with, i think it was Cmdr.Wilkens.

Compared to the DS billions of ships with the same volume, if put together will have a much greater surface, what means a lot more weapons, shield-projectors and so on. Not to forget billions of hyperspace-transciever, scanners, reactors in comparison to a limited number of those on the DS (like its one, single reactor).

Mass production tends to mitigate these problems. Each Death Star(with the possible exception of the two 'habitation spheres' around Coruscant) was pretty much a unique project, with no substantive infrastructure supporting its construction. Each ship will have a dedicated assembly line to provide parts. Each ship has far less stress acting upon it just by moving around, and so does not need to be as fantastically overengineered. Perhaps most importantly, each ship does not need to be constructed in utter secrecy(This applies to personnel requirements as well, imagine the problems providing realistic crews for the various Death Stars without giving everything away immediately).

Crew and officers left over from the Clone Wars as a cadre, as well as the absorption of most local defense forces into the Imperial military. Recruiting programs initiated during the Clone Wars left in place and expanded. Your hundred million ships and 300K ISDs would take 1.715 trillion personnel at the most, presuming that every lesser ship was a hideously overcrewed Dreadnaught. This is a quarter of a percent of the population of Coruscant, and you think a galactic civilisation won't be able to come up with the numbers?

You also need people in the army, you need people managing the logistics (how many people serving in the military of today see combat and how many do logistics, administration ...?), you have people on vacation ...

Keep also in mind, that the empire with its "humans-only"-policies can´t or won´t use non-human personal of absorbed defense-fleets or would recruit non-humans, who make up a large percentage of the galactic population.

We also don´t know, what kind of volunteers the empire wants in its forces. It is possible, that people are screened for being easy to influence and to corrupt and that the recruiteers are also looking for people, who already have a sadistic or ruthless attitude.

Aside from that, we have official sources, that tell us, that the empire has large problems to build up its fleet to a desired level. For once Grandmoff Tarkin´s letter to Palpatine in the ISB and the ANH-novelisation/radiodrama, where we learn, that the empire has already started to conscript people from the merchant-academy.

The fact, that in HttE the Chimera has to work with conscripts also indicates, that the imperial forces pre-Endor preferred volunteers.

You multiply the given figure by ten, to allow for a large 'tail to shooter' ratio, which may very well be excessive given the immense logistical benefit droid usage would provide(as seen in the movies in the fields of medical support and combat repair). You then triple that figure to allow for other branches of military service. You then consider that there are a million major worlds in the Empire, and if each of those averages one ten thousandth of the population of Coruscant, and assume that half the population is completely unacceptable for whatever reason, and even then the ratio has still improved in the Empire's favor.

[PainRack]

Mass production tends to mitigate these problems. Each Death Star(with the possible exception of the two 'habitation spheres' around Coruscant) was pretty much a unique project, with no substantive infrastructure supporting its construction. Each ship will have a dedicated assembly line to provide parts. Each ship has far less stress acting upon it just by moving around, and so does not need to be as fantastically overengineered. Perhaps most importantly, each ship does not need to be constructed in utter secrecy(This applies to personnel requirements as well, imagine the problems providing realistic crews for the various Death Stars without giving everything away immediately).

The huge investment neccesary, as well as production lead in time might delay output, especially if we make the caveat that most shipyards were incapable of mass producing ISD.

[consequences]

Mass production tends to mitigate these problems. Each Death Star(with the possible exception of the two 'habitation spheres' around Coruscant) was pretty much a unique project, with no substantive infrastructure supporting its construction. Each ship will have a dedicated assembly line to provide parts. Each ship has far less stress acting upon it just by moving around, and so does not need to be as fantastically overengineered. Perhaps most importantly, each ship does not need to be constructed in utter secrecy(This applies to personnel requirements as well, imagine the problems providing realistic crews for the various Death Stars without giving everything away immediately).

The huge investment neccesary, as well as production lead in time might delay output, especially if we make the caveat that most shipyards were incapable of mass producing ISD.

60% of a DS2 in six months. This means that any shipyard needed for the constructon of ISDs should be buildable in that amount of time or less. As far as investments go, the Empire built the following without the Rebel alliance getting a clue until it was almost(or in some cases entirely) too late.
DS prototype
DS1
DS2
Sun Crusher
World Devastators
Galaxy Gun
Eye of Palpatine
The Black Fleet of the Koornacht Cluster
The Eclipse SSD
The Eclipse 2 SSD
At least 2 Executor SSDs

The Empire has a crapload of infrastructure to spare if all of that can be lost in the shuffle.

[The Dark]

True, but two of those (DS prototype and Sun Crusher) were built in an installation that (IIRC) only Tarkin could access. The people who built the Maw Installation in a cluster of black holes were killed after completion, and none of the workers left it. Between that and the 4 ISDs guarding it, it's really not surprising that those two went undiscovered. Additionally, we don't know their lead time to begin construction on either of those vessels.

[FTeik]

Also the Suncrusher was fightersized, the DS-prototype was a largely empty shell, the Eclipse needed six years to be completed and there was only a limited number of worlddevastators, which didn´t need a large infrastructure, because they could grow by themself once activated. Yet the biggest of them was "only" a little more than three kilometers long.

[Ender]

According to the new ITW, Imperial construction is done in large part by self-replicating construction droids. So Imperial production would increase at an exponential rate. Building things cheap is not a major concern as a result.