Moderator: Vympel
I rather doubt that. Thrawn was a very important Admiral, yet was only in command of a VSD? And what about the stories from the Hand of Thrawn Duology how Thrawn concocted a plan with the Emporer to get Thrawn sent to the Unknown Regions. That can't really happen when Thrawn is off hunting Zaarin.IG-88E wrote:Zaarin WAS a Grand Admiral. When he went renegade and was killed, Thrawn was promoted to REPLACE him.
Pretty much- unless the prototype and plans are found; wherever Thrawn hid them.Alyeska wrote: The Missile Boat (I prefer to pretend it doesn't exist) is likely a "lost" technology with the death of Thrawn and Zarrin.
Thrawn was to join the circle of twelve Grand Admirals in secret, becoming the thirteenth member. Remember the Luke was astonished to hear of another Grand Admiral in Heir to the Empire. The Rebels/NR had accounted for all twelve. Thrawn was an addition, not a replacement. Someone else was promoted to fill Zaarin's role.Alyeska wrote:I rather doubt that. Thrawn was a very important Admiral, yet was only in command of a VSD? And what about the stories from the Hand of Thrawn Duology how Thrawn concocted a plan with the Emporer to get Thrawn sent to the Unknown Regions. That can't really happen when Thrawn is off hunting Zaarin.IG-88E wrote:Zaarin WAS a Grand Admiral. When he went renegade and was killed, Thrawn was promoted to REPLACE him.
The events from the EU books can't fit with the events of Tie-Fighter the game.
I am talking about how Tie-Fighter itself is unreliable for any information. It places Thrawn in the wrong place at the wrong time. The EU puts Thrawn as having been an Admiral of high rank and was secretly promoted to Grand Admiral, and then shortly thereafter banished to the Uknown Regions. The TF game shows people KNOWING that Thrawn was a Grand Admiral before Endor (which goes against secretly promoting him) and furthermore it has Thrawn fighting Zaarin right up till Endor rather then having been banished to the Unkown Regions.Master of Ossus wrote:Thrawn was to join the circle of twelve Grand Admirals in secret, becoming the thirteenth member. Remember the Luke was astonished to hear of another Grand Admiral in Heir to the Empire. The Rebels/NR had accounted for all twelve. Thrawn was an addition, not a replacement. Someone else was promoted to fill Zaarin's role.Alyeska wrote:I rather doubt that. Thrawn was a very important Admiral, yet was only in command of a VSD? And what about the stories from the Hand of Thrawn Duology how Thrawn concocted a plan with the Emporer to get Thrawn sent to the Unknown Regions. That can't really happen when Thrawn is off hunting Zaarin.IG-88E wrote:Zaarin WAS a Grand Admiral. When he went renegade and was killed, Thrawn was promoted to REPLACE him.
The events from the EU books can't fit with the events of Tie-Fighter the game.
Alyeska, we had this argument before. Zaarin was hunted down BEFORE Endor and sent off as you claim after those events (which must also have been prior to Endor if they involved the Emperor). The Essential Chronology covered this as well (page 72: "Soon afterward [of having hunted down Zaarin], Thrawn had been sent to the Unknown Regions, accounting for the New Republic's oversight.")Alyeska wrote:I rather doubt that. Thrawn was a very important Admiral, yet was only in command of a VSD? And what about the stories from the Hand of Thrawn Duology how Thrawn concocted a plan with the Emporer to get Thrawn sent to the Unknown Regions. That can't really happen when Thrawn is off hunting Zaarin.IG-88E wrote:Zaarin WAS a Grand Admiral. When he went renegade and was killed, Thrawn was promoted to REPLACE him.
The events from the EU books can't fit with the events of Tie-Fighter the game.
Thrawn replaced Zaarin after his defection (you think the Emperor would have kept a traitor on the books as a Grand Admiral?). And the EC specifies that only twelve GA's served at any one time. So while Thrawn was at least the thirteenth (assuming no others existed prior to this) to become a Grand Admiral, there were ultimately still only twelve members at any one time.Master of Ossus wrote:Thrawn was to join the circle of twelve Grand Admirals in secret, becoming the thirteenth member. Remember the Luke was astonished to hear of another Grand Admiral in Heir to the Empire. The Rebels/NR had accounted for all twelve. Thrawn was an addition, not a replacement. Someone else was promoted to fill Zaarin's role.Alyeska wrote:I rather doubt that. Thrawn was a very important Admiral, yet was only in command of a VSD? And what about the stories from the Hand of Thrawn Duology how Thrawn concocted a plan with the Emporer to get Thrawn sent to the Unknown Regions. That can't really happen when Thrawn is off hunting Zaarin.IG-88E wrote:Zaarin WAS a Grand Admiral. When he went renegade and was killed, Thrawn was promoted to REPLACE him.
The events from the EU books can't fit with the events of Tie-Fighter the game.
Aside perhaps from the SLAMs, whats so special about the Missile Boat? It mounted its warheads in large, mostly exposed launchers (at least two were VERY Exposed) - the ship was more or less built around them - whereas with X-wings or other fighters, the launchers fit much more smoothly into the internal hull.Alyeska wrote:IMO the Avenger did go into limited production. Enough so that NR fighter pilots new about it and wanted to attempt to create strategies against it (X-Wing Rogue Squadron). What probably happened is that the Avenger was cut from production shortly after Imperial Center fell because it was rather expensive and we already know the Empire preferred the cheapness of the Tie and Interceptor series. We saw the Interceptors recieve field upgrades and other modifcations (shields, hyperdrive, etc...) and its likely the Empire just lived with these middle ground fighters for quite some time. Then time came when the Empire had to deal with the X-Wing, A-Wing, E-Wing, and soon to be XJ-Wing problem. Their solution was saying "Screw it, we need our own bad-ass fighter" and they opted for the best thing they had (almost) the Tie-Defender. The Missile Boat (I prefer to pretend it doesn't exist) is likely a "lost" technology with the death of Thrawn and Zarrin.RayCav of ASVS wrote:IIRC, the Avenger should be damned good enough to warrant production, one is the equal of almost two of any other NR fighter, save the E-Wing and XJ.
Which, BTW, the XJ, like most NJO-era NR ships, is clearly the result of a fanboy wankfest get-together.
There is the fact that the victory briefing from the last mission of TF when you kill Zaarin specificaly states you are awaiting word on the victory at Endor. The fact that prior to this you hunted down and destroyed Alliance ships that were already amasing at Sulust indicates this is VERY close to Endor, and the end of TF clearly states that Endor has already or is occuring. How can Thrawn be chastised by the Emporers Court and sent away on punishment duty in the Unknown Regions if the Emporer is at the DS2 fighting the Rebels eh?Connor MacLeod wrote:Alyeska, we had this argument before. Zaarin was hunted down BEFORE Endor and sent off as you claim after those events (which must also have been prior to Endor if they involved the Emperor). The Essential Chronology covered this as well (page 72: "Soon afterward [of having hunted down Zaarin], Thrawn had been sent to the Unknown Regions, accounting for the New Republic's oversight.")Alyeska wrote:I rather doubt that. Thrawn was a very important Admiral, yet was only in command of a VSD? And what about the stories from the Hand of Thrawn Duology how Thrawn concocted a plan with the Emporer to get Thrawn sent to the Unknown Regions. That can't really happen when Thrawn is off hunting Zaarin.IG-88E wrote:Zaarin WAS a Grand Admiral. When he went renegade and was killed, Thrawn was promoted to REPLACE him.
The events from the EU books can't fit with the events of Tie-Fighter the game.
Unless you have more compelling proof of a contradiction (IE a timeframe) or a higher source, they don't conflict as you claim.
And how long did it take the Rebels to amass their fleet? Were they destroying ships during the early, middle, or late stages? Do we have any indications of the timeframe between the two events?Alyeska wrote: There is the fact that the victory briefing from the last mission of TF when you kill Zaarin specificaly states you are awaiting word on the victory at Endor. The fact that prior to this you hunted down and destroyed Alliance ships that were already amasing at Sulust indicates this is VERY close to Endor, and the end of TF clearly states that Endor has already or is occuring. How can Thrawn be chastised by the Emporers Court and sent away on punishment duty in the Unknown Regions if the Emporer is at the DS2 fighting the Rebels eh?
Given the number of people who KNEW that Thrawn was off hunting Zaarin and even the fact that the Rebellion went after Thrawn. Then you have the fact that they stuck him on the wrong ISD (Thrawn went off in some other ISD with some other Captain). Mara Jade would have known this information. Instead she clearly states that Thrawn was exiled into the Unknown Regions.Connor MacLeod wrote:And how long did it take the Rebels to amass their fleet? Were they destroying ships during the early, middle, or late stages? Do we have any indications of the timeframe between the two events?Alyeska wrote: There is the fact that the victory briefing from the last mission of TF when you kill Zaarin specificaly states you are awaiting word on the victory at Endor. The fact that prior to this you hunted down and destroyed Alliance ships that were already amasing at Sulust indicates this is VERY close to Endor, and the end of TF clearly states that Endor has already or is occuring. How can Thrawn be chastised by the Emporers Court and sent away on punishment duty in the Unknown Regions if the Emporer is at the DS2 fighting the Rebels eh?
And what prevents the chastisement/banishment from occuring beforehand? For all anyone knew, he was PUBLICLY exiled, but kept on secretly (Considering he was promoted secretly, funneled assistance secretly to expand the Unknown Regions, etc.) his involvement in the Zaarin incident may have brought him back from the Unknown Regions temporarily to deal with Zaarin before returning.
Palpatine could easily have given such orders, promotions, etc. Before leaving for Endor.
Sorry, try again.
???? It's pretty clear that Thrawn was the thirteenth. That's why he wasn't discovered. There were 12 other GA's running around, but the Rebels accounted for all of those. The fact that Palpatine would have taken Zaarin off the books clearly indicates that Thrawn was an addition and not a replacement. Besides, during the cut-scene, Palpatine said, "You will join my circle of twelve," not something to the effect of "You are going to replace Zaarin," or, "You are to be the twelfth."Connor MacLeod wrote:Thrawn replaced Zaarin after his defection (you think the Emperor would have kept a traitor on the books as a Grand Admiral?). And the EC specifies that only twelve GA's served at any one time. So while Thrawn was at least the thirteenth (assuming no others existed prior to this) to become a Grand Admiral, there were ultimately still only twelve members at any one time.Master of Ossus wrote:Thrawn was to join the circle of twelve Grand Admirals in secret, becoming the thirteenth member. Remember the Luke was astonished to hear of another Grand Admiral in Heir to the Empire. The Rebels/NR had accounted for all twelve. Thrawn was an addition, not a replacement. Someone else was promoted to fill Zaarin's role.Alyeska wrote: I rather doubt that. Thrawn was a very important Admiral, yet was only in command of a VSD? And what about the stories from the Hand of Thrawn Duology how Thrawn concocted a plan with the Emporer to get Thrawn sent to the Unknown Regions. That can't really happen when Thrawn is off hunting Zaarin.
The events from the EU books can't fit with the events of Tie-Fighter the game.
And what do you mean by "accounted?" The Rebels didnt fight all the Grand Admiral's directly. Some died on the 2nd Death Star, a couple others went Warlord after Endor, one committed suicide, several were engaged against the Rebels (at least one was beaten by Ackbar), one was assasinated by his second in command and another by Trioculus, and one made a deal with the Rebels. Much of this is made clear in the Essential Chronology.Master of Ossus wrote: ???? It's pretty clear that Thrawn was the thirteenth. That's why he wasn't discovered. There were 12 other GA's running around, but the Rebels accounted for all of those.
And yet the Essential Chronology stated on page 72 "there could never be more than twelve [grand admirals] at one time." Either Palpatine was speaking figuratively or meant something else by "circle of twelve".The fact that Palpatine would have taken Zaarin off the books clearly indicates that Thrawn was an addition and not a replacement.
Besides, during the cut-scene, Palpatine said, "You will join my circle of twelve," not something to the effect of "You are going to replace Zaarin," or, "You are to be the twelfth."
Proof for both please. It would help if its explicit enough to demonstrate that the NUMBER of people who knew Thrawn was hunting Zaarin somehow precludes any sort of secrecy, and thta the Rebels KNEW they were going after Thrawn specifically.Alyeska wrote:Given the number of people who KNEW that Thrawn was off hunting Zaarin and even the fact that the Rebellion went after Thrawn.
You mean Niriz and the Admonitor? Or are you referring to TIE fighter?Then you have the fact that they stuck him on the wrong ISD (Thrawn went off in some other ISD with some other Captain).
Palpatine obviously never told Jade everything (Need we mention the other Hands? What bout the existence of the whole Hand of Thrawn/Unknown Territories bit?)Mara Jade would have known this information. Instead she clearly states that Thrawn was exiled into the Unknown Regions.
