Borg/Species 8472/Empire Debate

[Master of Ossus]

You assumed instantly that because an ISD or an SSD is very large, it must also be inefficient in terms of the way that volume is used because you assumed that they are designed the same way that a Borg Cube is. Nothing could be further from the truth. Both Imperial capital ships make extremely efficient use of space, as demonstrated by ICS and their known capabilities, which necessitate vast quantities of interior space to be effectively managed to achieve their observed results. ISD's and SSD's are big, but unlike Borg cubes, their space is not wasted with vast open areas.

[His Divine Shadow]

Well it is hard to rationalize such a powerful ship getting its ass kicked too easily in the X Wing novels.

No it's not, stackpole is a fucking moron and his books should be eliminated from the SW universe or rewritten under my supervision, at gunpoint.

[Sovereign]

In Reality The United Federation and its allies would join with the Rebel Alliance, and we all know what the Alliance did to the Empire!

[Hendrake]

In Reality The United Federation and its allies would join with the Rebel Alliance, and we all know what the Alliance did to the Empire! :twisted:

We do not forget it. It is only that the arguments tend to be SW vs. ST and not SW vs. ST+SW.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

In Reality The United Federation and its allies would join with the Rebel Alliance, and we all know what the Alliance did to the Empire!

Why would the Rebels join with the Feds anyway? With slow FTL speed, unstable warp core, weak shields, stupid ship design, laughably small industrial capacity, not to mention those civilians onboard, the Rebels will consider them **liability** instead of asset in their fight against the Empire. Thank you, drive through.

BTW, "...The United Federation and its allies..." WHAT allies?????

[His Divine Shadow]

In reality the alliance of the UFP with the alliance will screw up the line of against all odds flukes and mishaps that just happen to coincide to doom the empire, so the Empire will now instead blow the alliance away and the UFP becomes the Imperial Academy's war gaming grounds.

[NecronLord]

Sorry to post more pics on this thread, but it seems necessery.

Normal cubes do not contain spheres.

This is a normal cube



This is the first contact cube.



see a slight difference?

[Vympel]

Good work NecronLord. Where'd you find them ?

[Slartibartfast]

In Reality The United Federation and its allies would join with the Rebel Alliance, and we all know what the Alliance did to the Empire!

Why would the Rebels join with the Feds anyway? With slow FTL speed, unstable warp core, weak shields, stupid ship design, laughably small industrial capacity, not to mention those civilians onboard, the Rebels will consider them **liability** instead of asset in their fight against the Empire. Thank you, drive through.

BTW, "...The United Federation and its allies..." WHAT allies?????

He meant join as a "please protect us, we're getting our asses kicked by Imperial meanies" kind of join.

[Slartibartfast]

Sorry to post more pics on this thread, but it seems necessery.

Normal cubes do not contain spheres.

This is a normal cube

<pic>

This is the first contact cube.

<pic>

see a slight difference?

Yeah, the First Contact cube has a huge arse!

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

In Reality The United Federation and its allies would join with the Rebel Alliance, and we all know what the Alliance did to the Empire!

Why would the Rebels join with the Feds anyway? With slow FTL speed, unstable warp core, weak shields, stupid ship design, laughably small industrial capacity, not to mention those civilians onboard, the Rebels will consider them **liability** instead of asset in their fight against the Empire. Thank you, drive through.

BTW, "...The United Federation and its allies..." WHAT allies?????

He meant join as a "please protect us, we're getting our asses kicked by Imperial meanies" kind of join.

Uh, for that matter, "PROPOSAL REJECTED, CAPTAIN PICARD!!"

[Sovereign]

I cant help it. Everyone is so eager to claim Star Wars as the winner without real proof. Just a lot of "oh yeah, proove it!" Well, lets get this all figured out, without flaming.
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Well, we now have an Alliance of The Rebels, Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Breen, Dominion, Cardassian, and so on. Every species in this alliance has its own tribute. The Rebels giving the most, Hyperdrive, Proton Torpedoes, etc. The ST universe on the other hand has something to give as well.
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Ablative armour was originally developed for the USS Defiant; the Borg had proven their ability to penetrate Federation shields with ease during their encounter with the Enterprise at system J-25, and the Defiant designers wanted the ship to have a degree of protection even if the shields should be overcome in the expected future encounters.
The value of the armour was proven when the Defiant came up against Dominion forces. Like the Borg, the Dominion were able to penetrate Federation shielding systems relatively easily in the first years of hostility between the two powers, and the Defiant's ablative armour allowed the ship to withstand attacks that would have otherwise caused significant damage.

Recently there has been a massive revolution in this technology with the appearance of the ablative armour generator. This device was given to the crew of the USS Voyager by a future version of Admiral Janeway, who travelled back in time to the ship in order to assist them in returning home from the Delta Quadrant. The generator involves a series of devices placed onto the hull of a vessel; when activated these replicate a layer of armour over the surface of the ship. The effectiveness of armour is considerable. The system Voyager employed was able to withstand a simultaneous attack by several Borg cubes. One of the most useful features of this system is that as it can be materialised and dematerialised as needed, even weapons systems can be covered over when they are not actually in use. This gives a much greater degree of coverage than any standard armour protection which must leave permanent apetures to operate such systems through.

At time of writing Starfleet had had relatively little time to asses this technology, but the ease with which it was adapted for use on Voyager without spacedock or any outside support indicates that it should be reasonably easy for the remainder of Starfleet's ships to create ablative armour generators for themselves. This should multiply the hull strength of the fleet massively at a single stroke.
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Dominion ships all appear to use the phased polaron beam as their primary weaponry, and this gave them a heavy advantage in early conflicts with Federation forces. The destruction of the USS Odyssey prompted an intense flurry of activity on many fronts within Starfleet. Ship production was ramped to a maximum and starship designs were altered to increase their combat effectiveness, while the academy training program was speeded up massively to provide crews for the new ships. By themselves, however, these projects would be of little use so long as the Dominion was able to defeat Federation ships so easily.
Perhaps the most important project the Federation embarked on was that of shield enhancement. Between 2371 and 2373 the Federation put huge emphasis on the development of new shield technology. The capture of a Dominion vessel in 2373 gave the Federation an operational Dominion weapons system. This proved to be a crucial step towards the development of an effective polaron shield.

The first real test of the system came at the end of 2373, when the Dominion launched an all out attack on Deep Space Nine. The stations shields proved to be highly effective, holding off the fleet and allowing the station to destroy over fifty enemy ships. Federation ships and stations continued to be resistant to Dominion weaponry for the remainder of the war
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Banned by many Alpha and Beta Quadrant powers in the Second Khitomer Accords, these weapons are among the most dangerous ever conceived. The Accords compel all signatory governments to make all possible efforts to restrict the proliferation of subspace weapons, including restrictions on access to sensitive records; as a result information concerning them tends to be very hard to come by.

In the Federation, subspace weapons were first proposed in the 2330's. A low level research project was initiated, and when the researchers began achieving promising results the pace of development was stepped up in 2339. In the late 2330's and early 2340's relations with the Klingon Empire deteriorated significantly, to the point where it was widely predicted that war was imminent. The Federation Council pushed for a test weapon as soon as possible, and by 2343 a device was ready for detonation. The Federation's first subspace weapon was detonated by the Excelsior class USS T'Plek in the Sigma 387 system on Stardate 21347.8.

The weapon was an Isolitic device; many records have still not been made public, but from what has been published it appears that the subspace warhead was composed of a large matter-antimatter charge surrounded by a set of concentric shells composed of Verterium Cortenide and Tungsten-Cobalt-Magnsium. The same material as used in standard warp coils, these converted a large part of the detonation into a pulse of subspace radiation which would be of sufficient magnitude to cause a sympathetic detonation within the nacelles of any Starship within one light second. Such an secondary explosion would release more than enough energy to destroy the ship, while the subspace effect would be virtually unaffected by most known forms of shielding. Starfleet expected this weapon to boost the combat effectiveness of its Starships by at least an order of magnitude.

However, the Isolitic burst did not perform as predicted. Early in the project the development team had worried that such a large release of subspace energy would breach the space / subspace barrier, causing a tear which would allow the two sides to come into contact. Extensive research was conducted in order to determine the likelihood of this type of rift, and after considerable experimentation combined with theoretical models it was finally determined that the barrier between space and subspace was virtually impossible to breach using this form of weapon. Unfortunately, the test weapon detonated by the T'Plek formed a subspace tear immediately; the tear quickly began to spread across space towards the T'Plek.

The T'Plek attempted to evade and retreat at impulse speed, but the tear rapidly closed the distance; Captain Senak initiated warp drive to clear the area. The instant the warp drive was engaged the tear virtually exploded towards the T'Plek, enveloping and destroying the ship with all hands still aboard. Subsequent analysis indicated that the effect was attracted to the residual subspace radiation within the T'Pleks warp core and nacelles. With the strength of the attraction proportional to the intensity of the radiation, the T'Plek had done the worst possible thing by going to warp; the fully active warp core had dragged the tear across space at an estimated Warp 9.9992, almost equal to subspace radio speeds.

Despite the loss, Starfleet continued with its research throughout 2343. However, the weapon effects quickly proved themselves to be hugely unpredictable. Less than 5% of the devices tested performed as intended; some 60% simply exploded in a near normal matter/antimatter reaction, with no apparent subspace effect at all. The remaining 35% caused subspace tears which would then expand rapidly towards a nearby source of subspace energy. Even this effect was unpredictable; the research teams took to positioning large subspace radiation generators near the test areas in order to attract any subspace tear away from monitoring vessels. Despite these precautions, the USS Armin was almost lost when a tear headed for it rather than the decoys. Only the Captains quick thinking in jettisoning both warp core and nacelles saved the ship from destruction. For subsequent tests purpose built monitors were provided which contained no subspace technology at all.

After the loss of the Enterprise-C at Narendra III in 2344, tensions with the Klingons eased considerably. The second Khitomer conference was held in this year; at the arms control talks the Klingons announced that they, too, had been developing Isolitic subspace weapons - also with very limited success. It was agreed that these devices were simply too unpredictable for either side to employ, and production and deployment of these weapons was outlawed by the Second Khitomer Accords. Although initially applying only to the Federation and Klingons, virtually all other Alpha and Beta Quadrant powers have since signed up to this particular provision. Among several notable exceptions are the Son'a, an offshoot of the Ba'ku species who were reported to have fitted their warship fleet with subspace weapons. This was confirmed when a Son'a vessel fired an Isolitic burst at the Enterprise-E in 2375; a subspace tear was formed which headed directly towards the Enterprise. This ship was already suffering from battle damage at the time, and was unable to manoeuvre well as the battle was fought within a large set of anomalies known as the "Briar Patch" - not that being in open space would have made a great deal of difference...

In the event, the crew ejected the ships warp core and detonated it inside the tear. This tactic had been suggested during the Federations research program, but the unpredictability of these weapons made the theory tenuous at best and no ship had the opportunity to test the idea out. Fortunately for the Enterprise, the tactic worked on this occasion and the ship was subsequently able to use the "Riker Manoeuvre" to defeat the Son'a ships.
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Like the ablative armour, the transphasic torpedoes were given to Voyager's crew by a future version of the ship's own captain. Even though the ship lacked any access to a spacedock or outside support of any kind, it was still a relatively quick proceducre to prepare the weapons systems for these devices. At time of writing Starfleet has had little chance to asses the technology, but Voyager used several of them during its battles with the Borg when returning to Earth and they were massively effective on this occasion. Voyager was able to destroy a Borg cube with two hits, and a second with only a single hit.
Starfleet is sure to conduct a rapid assessment of these weapons, and it is highly likely that they will make a fleetwide deployment of them in the near future. It seems certain that this will result in a massive increase in the offensive firepower of all torpedo-equipped vessels. Given that the ablative armour generator technology is also likely to spread through the fleet shortly, it seems that Starfleet will shortly eclipse all of its competitors in military strength.
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The trilithium torpedo was created by Doctor Tolian Soran, an El Aurian scientist who had an encounter with the Nexus in 2293. Soran searched for a safe method of re-entering the Nexus for decades; eventually he hit upon the idea of altering its course to bring it close to a planetary surface. This would allow him to wait on the planet in safety. In order to alter the course of the Nexus, Doctor Soran needed to significantly alter the mass of stars at certain points close to its course. The trilithium torpedo was his solution to this problem.
Precise details of the trilithium weapon are uncertain, but members of the Enterprise-D crew were able to scan a torpedo at close range. Subsequently the ship was able to record detailed sensor information when the Amargosa system was destroyed by Doctor Soran. Those records indicate that the torpedo initially causes a massive flare-up in the stars output. This initial burn lasts for some seven seconds, and consumes approximately 23% of the mass of the star - sufficient to significantly alter the gravitational forces in the region. As a secondary effect the detonation releases some 4.2 x 1046 Joules, producing a shock wave more than powerful enough to destroy everything in the solar system.

Immediately subsequent to the primary energy release, a quantum implosion occurs within the star. This causes a very rapid breakdown in all remaining fusion processes; starved of the thermal pressure that normally holds a star inflated, the remnants of the Amargosa star collapsed under their own weight into a black dwarf.

Doctor Soran attempted to launch a further weapon at the Veridian sun, but was prevented in doing so by two Starfleet officers. This weapon was destroyed together with all of its supporting facilities when it exploded on launching.

The Federation has classified its information concerning trilithium weapons and outlawed any attempt at production, in line with the laws against the production and use of weapons of mass destruction. However, it is likely that detailed research is proceeding and it is conceivable that Starfleet will eventually be allowed to add trilithium weapons to its fleet should the Dominion war require it.

[NecronLord]

Good work NecronLord. Where'd you find them ?

Thank you my lor

Hey wait.. I'm the Necron-Lord. I do the "Good work" thing!

just

http:\\www.shipschematics.net

[Illuminatus Primus]

Idiot. Now I just find you irritating. Don't expect us to debate when you haven't bothered with even a passing reference through Mike's excellent site which dismisses 90% of this with well-thought out, intelligent, and logical arguments.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Prove that the ablative armor generator cannot be defeated by sheer gigatonage from any one of a Star Destroyers dozens of dozens of heavy guns. Show that it isn't another frequency dependent defense system, which is useless against the Empire. The transphasic torpedoes merely penetrate Borg shielding/defenses IIRC using frequencies. Useless against the Empire. Show how trilithium torpedoes are not a lost tech.

[NecronLord]

Well, we now have an Alliance of The Rebels, Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Breen, Dominion, Cardassian, and so on. Every species in this alliance has its own tribute. The Rebels giving the most, Hyperdrive, Proton Torpedoes, etc. The ST universe on the other hand has something to give as well.

[/quote]Lets get this! there is no rebel assistance

Ablative armour was originally developed for the USS Defiant; the Borg had proven their ability to penetrate Federation shields with ease during their encounter with the Enterprise at system J-25, and the Defiant designers wanted the ship to have a degree of protection even if the shields should be overcome in the expected future encounters.
The value of the armour was proven when the Defiant came up against Dominion forces. Like the Borg, the Dominion were able to penetrate Federation shielding systems relatively easily in the first years of hostility between the two powers, and the Defiant's ablative armour allowed the ship to withstand attacks that would have otherwise caused significant damage.

OK several quantum torpedoes penatarate it, so a LTL will slice though it like a hot knife through butter.

In the Federation, subspace weapons were first proposed in the 2330's. A low level research project was initiated, and when the researchers began achieving promising results the pace of development was stepped up in 2339. In the late 2330's and early 2340's relations with the Klingon Empire deteriorated significantly, to the point where it was widely predicted that war was imminent. The Federation Council pushed for a test weapon as soon as possible, and by 2343 a device was ready for detonation. The Federation's first subspace weapon was detonated by the Excelsior class USS T'Plek in the Sigma 387 system on Stardate 21347.8.

Make stuff up will you? half a week after the battle of yavin the fifth death star squadren consisting of 10^343 Death stars was deployed.

The weapon was an Isolitic device; many records have still not been made public, but from what has been published it appears that the subspace warhead was composed of a large matter-antimatter charge surrounded by a set of concentric shells composed of Verterium Cortenide and Tungsten-Cobalt-Magnsium. The same material as used in standard warp coils, these converted a large part of the detonation into a pulse of subspace radiation which would be of sufficient magnitude to cause a sympathetic detonation within the nacelles of any Starship within one light second. Such an secondary explosion would release more than enough energy to destroy the ship, while the subspace effect would be virtually unaffected by most known forms of shielding. Starfleet expected this weapon to boost the combat effectiveness of its Starships by at least an order of magnitude.

Blather balther, have you got any proof?

Like the ablative armour, the transphasic torpedoes were given to Voyager's crew by a future version of the ship's own captain. Even though the ship lacked any access to a spacedock or outside support of any kind, it was still a relatively quick proceducre to prepare the weapons systems for these devices. At time of writing Starfleet has had little chance to asses the technology, but Voyager used several of them during its battles with the Borg when returning to Earth and they were massively effective on this occasion. Voyager was able to destroy a Borg cube with two hits, and a second with only a single hit.
Starfleet is sure to conduct a rapid assessment of these weapons, and it is highly likely that they will make a fleetwide deployment of them in the near future. It seems certain that this will result in a massive increase in the offensive firepower of all torpedo-equipped vessels. Given that the ablative armour generator technology is also likely to spread through the fleet shortly, it seems that Starfleet will shortly eclipse all of its competitors in military strength.


The trilithium torpedo was created by Doctor Tolian Soran, an El Aurian scientist who had an encounter with the Nexus in 2293. Soran searched for a safe method of re-entering the Nexus for decades; eventually he hit upon the idea of altering its course to bring it close to a planetary surface. This would allow him to wait on the planet in safety. In order to alter the course of the Nexus, Doctor Soran needed to significantly alter the mass of stars at certain points close to its course. The trilithium torpedo was his solution to this problem.
Precise details of the trilithium weapon are uncertain, but members of the Enterprise-D crew were able to scan a torpedo at close range. Subsequently the ship was able to record detailed sensor information when the Amargosa system was destroyed by Doctor Soran. Those records indicate that the torpedo initially causes a massive flare-up in the stars output. This initial burn lasts for some seven seconds, and consumes approximately 23% of the mass of the star - sufficient to significantly alter the gravitational forces in the region. As a secondary effect the detonation releases some 4.2 x 1046 Joules, producing a shock wave more than powerful enough to destroy everything in the solar system.

I can't be bothered, someone disprove this calc... *waves hand dismissivly*

Immediately subsequent to the primary energy release, a quantum implosion occurs within the star. This causes a very rapid breakdown in all remaining fusion processes; starved of the thermal pressure that normally holds a star inflated, the remnants of the Amargosa star collapsed under their own weight into a black dwarf.

Doctor Soran attempted to launch a further weapon at the Veridian sun, but was prevented in doing so by two Starfleet officers. This weapon was destroyed together with all of its supporting facilities when it exploded on launching.

The Federation has classified its information concerning trilithium weapons and outlawed any attempt at production, in line with the laws against the production and use of weapons of mass destruction. However, it is likely that detailed research is proceeding and it is conceivable that Starfleet will eventually be allowed to add trilithium weapons to its fleet should the Dominion war require it.

So I'll trade you your Tri-litium torpedo with a sun-crusher type resonance torpedo.

[Mr Bean]

I cant help it. Everyone is so eager to claim Star Wars as the winner without real proof. Just a lot of "oh yeah, proove it!" Well, lets get this all figured out, without flaming.

Let this forever stand as the statment that DEFINES Soverign...

Well, we now have an Alliance of The Rebels, Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Breen, Dominion, Cardassian, and so on. Every species in this alliance has its own tribute. The Rebels giving the most, Hyperdrive, Proton Torpedoes, etc. The ST universe on the other hand has something to give as well.

Ahh I see, Though several of these races have a hatred of each other they activly align with each other? Just like the Dominion alliged with the Federation aginst the Borg?...... Oh wait noo there was this little thing called the DOMINION WARS
Do you have some magic method by which the will suddenly completly forget everything that made them go to War with each other to begin with
So you start your aurgment off by staying that everyone would magicly ally with each other
Bad start
NEXT

Ablative armour was originally developed for the USS Defiant; the Borg had proven their ability to penetrate Federation shields with ease during their encounter with the Enterprise at system J-25, and the Defiant designers wanted the ship to have a degree of protection even if the shields should be overcome in the expected future encounters.
The value of the armour was proven when the Defiant came up against Dominion forces. Like the Borg, the Dominion were able to penetrate Federation shielding systems relatively easily in the first years of hostility between the two powers, and the Defiant's ablative armour allowed the ship to withstand attacks that would have otherwise caused significant damage.

Ahh the Batmobile armor as I remeber, This same armor that can take less than half a gigaton of damage will be useful version ships that mount LIGHT WEAPONS in the gigaton range is useful... How?

*snip nice background information
This should multiply the hull strength of the fleet massively at a single stroke.

Massivly? A doubleing while massive is nice, it still can not overcome the roughly 40x at BEST assuming the Batmobile Armor increases the protection of ST ships by a MAGNITUDE, IE if the Armor is 10x more effective than anything else ever seen, its still 3-4x to little to stop the Light guns of an ISD

Dominion ships all appear to use the phased polaron beam as their primary weaponry, and this gave them a heavy advantage in early conflicts with Federation forces.
*snip
The capture of a Dominion vessel in 2373 gave the Federation an operational Dominion weapons system. This proved to be a crucial step towards the development of an effective polaron shield.

The problem with Federation Tecnology is like the Borg oddly enough, they are quite weak aginst anything they have never encountered before due to the finiky nature of thier shielding and weapon systems means anything brand new is likley to be increably effective for awhile before countermeasures can be discovered

Unlike Imperal Tecnology....

The same material as used in standard warp coils, these converted a large part of the detonation into a pulse of subspace radiation which would be of sufficient magnitude to cause a sympathetic detonation within the nacelles of any Starship within one light second. Such an secondary explosion would release more than enough energy to destroy the ship, while the subspace effect would be virtually unaffected by most known forms of shielding. Starfleet expected this weapon to boost the combat effectiveness of its Starships by at least an order of magnitude.
*Snip rest of intresting but useless information

Intresting weapon but as its been noted there are... how many Warp Nacelles on Imperal Ships?

Infact besides Scanners and a BACKUP subspace communcation device there are no subspace devices on Imperal ships


Subspace Weapons are useful on Subspace purposion ships and as you noted in your own information they are much more likley to destroy the ship
that fired them then smug the paint on any Imperal Ships....
And agian

Starfleet expected this weapon to boost the combat effectiveness of its Starships by at least an order of magnitude.

The thing is, one needs to boost thier combat effectivness by THREE orders of the magintude to bring them in line with SW, LOW END weapons figures

It seems certain that this will result in a massive increase in the offensive firepower of all torpedo-equipped vessels. Given that the ablative armour generator technology is also likely to spread through the fleet shortly, it seems that Starfleet will shortly eclipse all of its competitors in military strength.

Except... We only see them used aginst the Borg, Except we know the Borg to be highly dependant on Adaptaion rather than acutal raw power, Except in we hear from Seven of Nine that the Borg would quickly adapt to them and render them useless agian, indicating that they are not a application of Raw power but rather trick

The Federation has classified its information concerning trilithium weapons and outlawed any attempt at production, in line with the laws against the production and use of weapons of mass destruction. However, it is likely that detailed research is proceeding and it is conceivable that Starfleet will eventually be allowed to add trilithium weapons to its fleet should the Dominion war require it.

Except the Dominion War DID call for it, If it where not for the Deus Ex Machina of the Wormhole Aliens the Federation would have lost and several times came very close to loosing yet we never saw any Trilithium Torps ever introduced or reasurched or any indications fo this


So you present a nice but ultimatly useless armor tecnology,
A Completly USELESS weapons tecnology(Or do you think near 40% Weapons falure when one must fire thousands of them at a SINGLE ISD even if they are a 150x! more powerful that normal ST weapons) aginst the Empire
A Gimic Weapon
And a weapon used twice and never seen agian....


Next...

[Mr Bean]

Somone Disprove this Calc

himm ok

As a secondary effect the detonation releases some 4.2 x 1046 Joules, producing a shock wave more than powerful enough to destroy everything in the solar system.
4.2x1046=4393.2 J or less than a 1KT Bomb... Or does he mean 4.2^1046 which is more than a star producs in a few million years....

Thats over a Gogleplex(gogle times a gogle) which is the higest named number I know off

Or to put it another way the Good Doctor is saying that his weapons does...

4.2 Yottatons to the 1021 Power....


Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhht

[Illuminatus Primus]

Did we mention there's no way the Alliance will discover the wormhole so much sooner then the Empire to trade technology and teach the Feds how to use it/even get them up to the bare minimum tech level to deploy it.

If I give ancient Rome and full schematic and materials for a jet engine, can they build it?

[Vendetta]

Blather balther, have you got any proof?

Sounds like he's cribbing it off of Graham Kennedy.

So it's entertaining fanfic, but nothing else...

[Rightous Fist Of Heaven]

IT seems that he just does not know hard numbers. Riker mentioned that 4.2GW is enough to power a small phaser bank, using Pegasus photon torpedoes the E-D has are around 500 kt.

Now i assume that you know how the chart of tonnage goes.
1kt = 1000 tonns of tnt
1mt = 1000 kt
1gt = 1000 mt
1tt = 1000 gt

An ISD's shields are over 100tt, heavy weapons over 5 tt per shot. Medium weapons 200gt per shot and light weapons at low gt level excluding AA quad cannons. Now if you seriously try to claim that a Feddie ship would survive even a single shot from a light gun then you are seriously dillusioned. It doesnt matter how much fancy technobbable shit and shining stuff the Feddies have invented since they still cannot come even near the Empire in terms of power. You are talking how the Borg are strong etc etc etc they are strong in the ST galaxy but compared to the empire, they are less than an annoyance.

[SirNitram]

Sovereiegn: You are quoting DITL.org. This site is full of bullshit claims and lies. You will need to find support in the episodes if you wish to claim these nonsense figures.

All the impulse drives, warp core, photon torps, and so forth, can't save the Federation from one Acclamator transport.(Light guns rated at 200GT per shot, acceleration rated at 4500G's, shields rated at 1e23J, armour belt capable of laughing off fusion nukes. All the above taken from the AOTC Incredible Cross-Section book).

[Sovereign]

Wher do you get SW info, this site, how does this site get its info? From Cannon SW books? I do get mine from DITL, but what makes that wrong and this site right?

[starfury]

Wher do you get SW info, this site, how does this site get its info? From Cannon SW books? I do get mine from DITL, but what makes that wrong and this site right?

that is going to get a very rough response, considering that reputation of the DITL site here.

[Mr Bean]

Wher do you get SW info, this site, how does this site get its info? From Cannon SW books? I do get mine from DITL, but what makes that wrong and this site right?

Simple this site is done as an acutal method of scienfic analyis of events


Portal was done as a joke(At least the Fanfic)

That and GK was already defeated by Wong long ago if you bothered to check his hatemail/debate pages

High school teacher in Britain. Prone to exaggerating his own level of scientific education. Maintains a website called the Daystrom Technical Institute, on which he espouses his views on Treknology and publishes his fanatically anti-Star Wars crossover fanfic. One of the most extreme pro-Trek "vs" debaters around. He actually subscribes to the idiotic "no laser" argument. This is not a flame-mail exchange, although I put Graham Kennedy on this page simply because we have exchanged such harsh words in the past. It is a point-by-point criticism of some of his claims, provoked by his dishonesty about his own level of scientific education and necessitated by the fact that a lot of Star Trek fans take his work quite seriously.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Hat ... nnedy.html
He critices most of Grams site

Along with Gram's creditals(He's a High School Teacher)
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Hat ... dyHND.html