OMG, Bush Floats NST?

[Talon Karrde]

Um.... correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Bush say, "I'm not exactly sure how big the national sales tax is going to have to be, but it's the kind of interesting idea that we ought to explore seriously."? And this endorses the idea... how? I don't believe he immediately jumped up and said, "YES! Lets have a national sales tax!" It seems to me pretty apparent he said it was an "interesting idea that we ought to explore."

[MKSheppard]

Having a VAT type tax is a good supplement to the income tax but shouldn't replace it. It needs to be a VAT tax, a simple sales tax is regressive.

*shoots Jalinth for gross stupidity*

VAT is evil; can you imagine the goddamned paperwork involved in
VAT? Just do a simple damn sales tax.

[jegs2]

Um.... correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Bush say, "I'm not exactly sure how big the national sales tax is going to have to be, but it's the kind of interesting idea that we ought to explore seriously."? And this endorses the idea... how? I don't believe he immediately jumped up and said, "YES! Lets have a national sales tax!" It seems to me pretty apparent he said it was an "interesting idea that we ought to explore."

If it came from Bush at all, most around here will assault it as though it were a giant spider on the wall within their closet.

[Xenophobe3691]

If it came from Bush at all, most around here will assault it as though it were a giant spider on the wall within their closet.

Hey, we'd assault Kerry if he ever said something stupid like that as well. Only difference is, he isn't.

[Illuminatus Primus]

And its untrue that the sales tax is loophole free.

The Legislature whores out loopholes for the lawyers and special interests.

For example, apparently haircuts are real important in Florida, because they're tax exempt. Don't even ask me about that one.

[Xenophobe3691]

And its untrue that the sales tax is loophole free.

The Legislature whores out loopholes for the lawyers and special interests.

For example, apparently haircuts are real important in Florida, because they're tax exempt. Don't even ask me about that one.

Eh, I'll say probably because Rich and Poor get them. And is there anything else tax free here in FL? I might as well take advantage of it

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Yes, a simple sales tax is progressive. It taxes you as a percentage of what you spend, not what you earn. Someone like Paris Hilton is going to get hit just as bad as they are now, today--but someone who is, say, lower middle class is going to benefit, because they will not be taxed on things like saving money to buy a home, saving money to send their kids to college, establishing a rainy-day fund, etc. Furthermore, most state sales taxes exempt food and other essentials. If a national sales tax did the same, the only way it would punish truly poor people is if they purchase frivolities that they don't need to survive, anyway. So what this tax would do is encourage and reward saving, protect the ability of individuals to buy necessities, and draw its greatest revenue from people who are on constant spending binges for frivolous items, the majority of whom are rich.

[Dahak]

Having a VAT type tax is a good supplement to the income tax but shouldn't replace it. It needs to be a VAT tax, a simple sales tax is regressive.

*shoots Jalinth for gross stupidity*

VAT is evil; can you imagine the goddamned paperwork involved in
VAT? Just do a simple damn sales tax.

We have both an income tax and value added tax.
For me, there is no paperwork, I just buy my things. The fact that in the price already 16% VAT is included doesn't touch me.
And for the companies, it doesn't really make their tax declaration any more complex than it would be without it...

[LMSx]

*snip*

*snip*

*snip*
Also, its easy enough for those who can to drive over to the next state over with no tax, or to use the internet, which also often has no sales tax. That, along with the food thing, makes this sort of tax more regressive than a properly constructed income tax.

This is at best only tangentally related, but there are people in WA near the Oregon border who live there and shop in Oregon, there's no income tax in Washington and no sales tax in Oregon so they get the best of both worlds.

It's easy to bitch about any kind of tax. There's no such thing as a tax which will receive rave reviews from those who pay it. But the GST is not more regressive than income tax.

How does the GST specifically apply to Canadian citizens? I.E tax rates and the ilk?

[MKSheppard]

And for the companies, it doesn't really make their tax declaration any more complex than it would be without it...

Try keeping track of VAT, over whether it got it's value added to it
or not, throughout the entire chain from raw wood into finished
product.

*head explodes*

[Stuart Mackey]

And for the companies, it doesn't really make their tax declaration any more complex than it would be without it...

Try keeping track of VAT, over whether it got it's value added to it
or not, throughout the entire chain from raw wood into finished
product.

*head explodes*

Its easy..what you do is this{with GST in NZ):
Every one in the chain from munufactuer to customer, pays and everyone except the end buyer gets a full rebate at the end of the financial year.

[Jalinth]

Having a VAT type tax is a good supplement to the income tax but shouldn't replace it. It needs to be a VAT tax, a simple sales tax is regressive.

*shoots Jalinth for gross stupidity*

VAT is evil; can you imagine the goddamned paperwork involved in
VAT? Just do a simple damn sales tax.

Unfortunately, simple sales taxes are 1) significantly regressive 2) very limited in scope 3) are inherently more "leaky". They can also cause double tax problems pretty easily (retail and wholesale businesses often end up paying sales tax - they should only be charging it to the final end-user).

Sales taxes are a very poor taxing mechanism in the 21st century. They do not pick-up significant economic activity (the entire damn sales sector - the main growth sector for most 1st world economies)

The paperwork isn't that bad - if you keep decent enough records to do your tax return, it isn't that much harder to separate out the GST. Sales taxes can be as bad if not worst- any exemptions need to be backed up with certificates, the need to prove where you bought any equipment (if out of province, you are supposed to pay the sales tax).

It is also much easier to defraud the system. If one vendor drops out of the system, the entire sales tax on the final sale disappears. In a VAT system, you only lose that amount of the value added by that retailer. The rest of the tax still remains in the tax system.

Sales taxes also are prone to taxing business input - this is conceptually bad since sales taxes are only supposed to be charged to the final consumer. VATs avoid this by allowing a credit for taxes paid, ensuring that only an end user actually pays the tax.

So I am advocating a VAT rather than a sales tax. It is not stupidity, it is just recognizing that the day for a sales tax on tangible goods is long past (think all the commerce over the internet). It is a good supplement to an income tax. It provides a stable revenue stream that is harder to defraud (can still be done, just the consequences are reduced) and also taxes ALL consumption - services as well as goods. This is fairer given that services are more heavily consumed (in $ terms) by the wealthier and goods by the poorer.