What makes TPM suck?

[Knife]

I actually like the movie. Tis not the best SW movie but I've noticed that alot of people can't stand or are irritated by the movie.

The way I see it, the actual plot line is solid. Where the movie hits it's low is the whole Anikin subplot on Tatooine. Perhaps if Anikin were alittle older, say his teens, then the movie might have been better.

A standard Jedi enters his/her apprenticship at around 5 years of age. Anikin was only 4 years behind schedual. The use of the 'so called' little kid and all that it entails kind of cheapens the movie. Some what what some people say of the whole Ewok thingy in RotJ.

Of course, Jar Jar could be deleted and not many would care but even in TPM, his scences are actually few and irrelevant.



What do you think?

[Ghost Rider]

I think for many it's two things.

Anakin's age being a ten year kid combined just bad acting and poor lines, and Jar-Jar being utterly useless and annoying. He's there as some poorly done extra that really get irksome.

Overall it's not bad, I don't particularly care for it, but for me it's those factors and a few others I've asked really have pretty much come down to that agreement.

Though overall it did at least give us a really good Jedi battle.

[Knife]

Again, I thought the core plot was solid, the whoe Phantom Menace thingy. I agree with you (and your buddies) that the whole Anikin thing sucked balls. If you could erase Tattoine from the movie, it'll be a new and better thing.

Imagine, if you will, Anikin being a fighter pilot of the age of around 20, in the service of Naboo. Keep the original plot of TPM, and Anikin being one of the pilots saved from the Theed hanger.

He's grateful of the save, serves the Queen of Naboo, and perhaps ten years later, serves the Senator of Naboo.

This would give him consistancy with Palpatine, why he's the apprentice, and a better 'grown up story' than the poor, slave boy from Tatooine.

[Techno_Union]

Liked:
1. Coruscant
2. Trade Federation ships/ground forces
3. Amidala
4. Obi-wan/Qui-gon
5. Palpatine
6. the music
7. The invasion/battle scenes
8. YODA!!!

Didn't Like:
1. The Gungans (very annoying people)
2. Any of the Tatooine scenes
3. Anakin was annoying
4. the relationship between Obi-wan and Qui-gon
5. Darth Maul's teeth... ewwww

[Ghost Rider]

Again, I thought the core plot was solid, the whoe Phantom Menace thingy. I agree with you (and your buddies) that the whole Anikin thing sucked balls. If you could erase Tattoine from the movie, it'll be a new and better thing.

Imagine, if you will, Anikin being a fighter pilot of the age of around 20, in the service of Naboo. Keep the original plot of TPM, and Anikin being one of the pilots saved from the Theed hanger.

He's grateful of the save, serves the Queen of Naboo, and perhaps ten years later, serves the Senator of Naboo.

This would give him consistancy with Palpatine, why he's the apprentice, and a better 'grown up story' than the poor, slave boy from Tatooine.

Actually that would have been very cool.

The race was fun but really the whole ten year old uber prodigy(and that whole speech he had with his mom......urgh) was something I just didn't even begin to mesh.

But yeah a 20 year Anakin would've been cool.

It's a bit funny but a small part of me wished AoTC was the first part...well age wise and that Obi-Wan and Anakin were Jedi and Padawan.

Because seriously I wanted to know more about Obi-wan's line when he described him to Luke.

[Knife]

Qui Jon, now that was a character and I was really sad when he bit it. I understand that it was a fore gone conclusion that Qui jon died, but he was the perfect Jedi, IMHO.

[Stofsk]

I think for many it's two things.

Anakin's age being a ten year kid combined just bad acting and poor lines, and Jar-Jar being utterly useless and annoying. He's there as some poorly done extra that really get irksome.

JarJar SOUNDS annoying, but some of the things he states I remember being relevant - criticising Qui-gon for relying (or depending) on the Force, and chastising Queen Amidala for only thinking of her people and not the gungans, who share the same planet.

At least... I seem to remember those two lines that come off like that. I'm sure in no hurry to slap the DVD into the player and find out.

The way I see it, the actual plot line is solid. Where the movie hits it's low is the whole Anikin subplot on Tatooine. Perhaps if Anikin were alittle older, say his teens, then the movie might have been better.

It's more than that; he needs to be older, and on more 'equal' terms with Obi-wan (they were supposed to be friends, something which is always easy to establish when the pair is close in age), but more than that; he needed to display some of the characteristics that Alec Guiness described of him in ANH: cunning warrior, best pilot in the galaxy. TPM shows Anakin at the rediculous age of 10 blow up a Doughnut Battleship, practically with little effort. (I always thought it was Artoo steering the ship. )

Plus I hated the Tattooine connection. If Anakin was older, closer to Obi-wan's age, and was on Naboo as a mercenary pilot it would go some way into establishing his character in a more interesting manner. Certainly a lot better than an irrelevant podrace tangent on a planet I'm thoroughly SICK of, as well as an equally stupid fighter battle with Anakin winning not through sheer wits or impressive tactics, but fucking DUMB LUCK.

[Knife]

snippy

There you are, did you get my return PM?

I'm thourougly convinced that the 9 year old Anikin was the worst development of SW and Lucas trying to get a 'new generation' to follow the new movies.

[Ghost Rider]

I think for many it's two things.

Anakin's age being a ten year kid combined just bad acting and poor lines, and Jar-Jar being utterly useless and annoying. He's there as some poorly done extra that really get irksome.

JarJar SOUNDS annoying, but some of the things he states I remember being relevant - criticising Qui-gon for relying (or depending) on the Force, and chastising Queen Amidala for only thinking of her people and not the gungans, who share the same planet.

At least... I seem to remember those two lines that come off like that. I'm sure in no hurry to slap the DVD into the player and find out.

Possibly...but for me it's like going.

"There's a pearl or two in that ten ton heap of crap."

I watch so far the leas of the SW movies and he unfortunatly is a big aprt why...and sadly it's not him being a coward and stuff...it's him doing utterly pointless things liven up the atmosphere.

*shudder*

[SCRawl]

Part of the problem with the first movie in a trilogy is all the set-up that's necessary, and all of the (usually banal) expository dialogue that goes with it. ANH didn't suffer from such a problem, though; it really was more like a middle act than a first act. That's part of what gets me hooked, the tease of a backstory. Vader saying "There will be no one to stop us this time." Well, I really wanted to know about *last* time....

Anyways, specifically about TPM, I really didn't like the whole Tattooine experience, and Jar Jar, well, let's just say that a little of Jar Jar goes a long way. The dialogue was weak, the performances were less than inspired, and really, who can get amped up about trade disputes?

I really thought that seeing Jedi at their prime was quite something, and the fight at the end had me drooling for more.

As for the core plot, I'm willing to give Lucas all the rope he wants before I start tying a noose. Maybe he has a master plan which will tie it all together, and maybe he doesn't. I'm firmly in the "we'll see" camp.

[Stofsk]

There you are, did you get my return PM?

Yeah. I'll have to look in my local library to see if they even have some of the books of the NJO.

There's a trilogy at the end of the NJO written by a couple Aussies (IIRC I think it was called FOrce Heretic). Can you let me know how they stack up when you get to them? I'm curious, because I've seen other books by those writers.

I'm thourougly convinced that the 9 year old Anikin was the worst development of SW and Lucas trying to get a 'new generation' to follow the new movies.

Definitely.

[Stofsk]

I really thought that seeing Jedi at their prime was quite something, and the fight at the end had me drooling for more.

I would have really liked to see more than one Sith warrior, and more than two Jedi. But that's likely a symptom of KOTOR fever - they have lightsabre fights coming out their arses in that game.

I'm not sure how it could be added into TPM. But then there's a lot that could have been cutted out of the film where lightsabre fights could have been added in.

Possibly...but for me it's like going.

"There's a pearl or two in that ten ton heap of crap."

I can't really argue with that.

[JediMaster415]

I personally believe the movie is the worst but only because I like all the other movies so damn much. There are a few things in the movie that could have been done better.

Below, I list a few of the things I find wrong and what I think could've made it better. It doesn't change anything now but I've given it a lot of thought. Ah well, it's a moot point. I'll list them anyway.

Anakin could've been older. Maybe 18, like Luke was when he started training. Having him as a little kid is not as bad for the galaxy as maybe having him, at least, into his teens. Him being a teenager would make his temper much more dangerous. There's a deleted scene that has Anakin attacking Greedo, who said he cheated. Currently, it seems like just a child reacting to another child's taunting, though it's obviously meant to introduce his temper. That would be much worse if Anakin were a teenager and attacking a peer who said something similar, and makes it a bit more difficult to change because it's so ingrained in him.

Jar Jar, despite popular opinion, is necessary, actually. Though Palpatine and Vader stab the Jedi and the Old Republic in the back, it's Jar Jar who hands them the knife. He could have been a bit smarter or a bit less clumsy, but some things have to be sacrificed, I guess. Or Palpatine could've tricked someone else.

It's the space battle and Maul's death that irk me the most.

Anakin doing what several adults cannot, while promoting him, is simply braindead. It would be believeable if he were older and had maybe helped fly a cargo ship every now and then, or working for Jabba as a bodyguard or smuggler. Instead, he's a little kid and a slave in a junkyard. The only piloting experience he has is flying a podracer. His entire victory is an accident since he had no idea what did what.

Instead of Maul dying, he could've survived and become a Vaderlike presence, Obi-Wan failing to defeat him for over a decade, only succeeding within the climax of the third movie. It would've made Obi-Wan's past a bit darker, as I don't think Maul would've liked loose ends.

That's just my opinion and I have a tendency to use time I could spend writing SW and anime fanfics to think of ways my favorite movies or books could've been different.

[Knife]

Part of the problem with the first movie in a trilogy is all the set-up that's necessary, and all of the (usually banal) expository dialogue that goes with it. ANH didn't suffer from such a problem, though; it really was more like a middle act than a first act. That's part of what gets me hooked, the tease of a backstory. Vader saying "There will be no one to stop us this time." Well, I really wanted to know about *last* time....

Quite honestly, ANH didn't have to worry much about backstory and all. Lucas didn't know that he'd be able to make another SW so ANH was really rather self contained.

Anyways, specifically about TPM, I really didn't like the whole Tattooine experience, and Jar Jar, well, let's just say that a little of Jar Jar goes a long way. The dialogue was weak, the performances were less than inspired, and really, who can get amped up about trade disputes?

While Jar Jar is really not the best part of SW, he's really minor compared with the Anikin thingy on Tatooine, imo. I would have chalked Jar Jar up to a minor anomally if the Anikin thing was dealt with better. In AotC's his part actually made sense and was more or less perfect as a patsy.

I really thought that seeing Jedi at their prime was quite something, and the fight at the end had me drooling for more.

You and me both bud. Even as a kid, (yes, I'm that old) the scene in RotJ with Luke and Jabba's guards struck me as messy. Ever since then, I've dreamed of what a Real Jedi could do. Personally, I like the Jedi action in the TF ship better than the end with Maul.

As for the core plot, I'm willing to give Lucas all the rope he wants before I start tying a noose. Maybe he has a master plan which will tie it all together, and maybe he doesn't. I'm firmly in the "we'll see" camp.

Agreed, though if he fucks it up, he better have a good fall out shelter alread made. [/i][/b]

[Knife]

There's a trilogy at the end of the NJO written by a couple Aussies (IIRC I think it was called FOrce Heretic). Can you let me know how they stack up when you get to them? I'm curious, because I've seen other books by those writers.

Noted. I'll give you the 411 when I get there.

[Knife]

Instead of Maul dying, he could've survived and become a Vaderlike presence, Obi-Wan failing to defeat him for over a decade, only succeeding within the climax of the third movie. It would've made Obi-Wan's past a bit darker, as I don't think Maul would've liked loose ends.

While I personally didn't mind the untimely death of Maul, I understand the problem

Maul, the main active badguy of EpI died in EpI. Jango, who was introduced in EPII, died in EPII.

Supposedly, Dooku, who was introduced in EPII will die in the opening scenes of EPIII.

In the OT, you had a constant badguy, Vader and the Emperor (ESB-RotJ) who were always there as a threat. In the PT, the obvious bad guys change every fucking movie. Palpitine is always there but he is not the obvious badguy. Maul would have had some serious scenes in EpII if he had lived.

[Darth Wong]

Glorification of the villain is a good idea for any kind of action movie, because it makes him seem scarier. They haven't been doing enough of that in the prequels to please audiences that have become accustomed to this shtick.

[Knife]

Glorification of the villain is a good idea for any kind of action movie, because it makes him seem scarier. They haven't been doing enough of that in the prequels to please audiences that have become accustomed to this shtick.

Presumably, I assume you are talking about Maul. Sidious is sooooooo low key that he is not really the villan rather a plot device in TPM. In that, if correct, I agree with you. I didn't really see Mauls death as a tragic thing but put in context of the other PT and overlaped into the OT, the major villians of the PT don't last as long, or close, to the villans of the OT. That, IMHO, is a bad thing.

[Vympel]

So, will Anakin be glorified in Episode III? Frankly, I got a kick out of the whole 1938 Nuremberg rally nature of the massive parade ground with the Clonetroopers marching into their assault ships to go off to war at the end of AOTC- if that's what to expect from Revenge of the Sith, bring it on.

Supposedly, Dooku, who was introduced in EPII will die in the opening scenes of EPIII.

In the OT, you had a constant badguy, Vader and the Emperor (ESB-RotJ) who were always there as a threat. In the PT, the obvious bad guys change every fucking movie. Palpitine is always there but he is not the obvious badguy. Maul would have had some serious scenes in EpII if he had lived.

I think it goes to show, more or less, that unlike in the OT, the villains in the PT are just mere tools to Sidious ends- expendable.

[Knife]

So, will Anakin be glorified in Episode III? Frankly, I got a kick out of the whole 1938 Nuremberg rally nature of the massive parade ground with the Clonetroopers marching into their assault ships to go off to war at the end of AOTC- if that's what to expect from Revenge of the Sith, bring it on.

One would hope so, the fall of Anikin would follow such trends, I would think. Super uber Jedi knight followed by super uber fall, into a super uber Sith.

I think it goes to show, more or less, that unlike in the OT, the villains in the PT are just mere tools to Sidious ends- expendable.

Granted, though Sidious is a background character in the PT. To say that he is a prime character is false, IMO. He is a plot device that propels the story line. Once the OT comes into play, Palpatine becomes a secondary character to the story, rather than a plot device. In the PT, he's just a means to an end, once ESB comes around he becomes importent because he's the one that need to be defeated to win. Before that, he's just a intangable myth, a ideal if you will.

[JediMaster415]

I think that Anakin/Vader is the only villian we're really supposed to have any feeling, other than disappointment or surprise, for. I'm not too sure but the way everything is lining itself up, that seems to be the case.

[Knife]

I think that Anakin/Vader is the only villian we're really supposed to have any feeling, other than disappointment or surprise, for. I'm not too sure but the way everything is lining itself up, that seems to be the case.

We're suppost to have an emotional attachment to Anikin, though that doesn't mean that every other 'badguy' should be one dimentional. (damn spiced rum makes it hard to spell)

Dimentional, Diamentional, ......whatever.

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

Glorification of the villain is a good idea for any kind of action movie, because it makes him seem scarier. They haven't been doing enough of that in the prequels to please audiences that have become accustomed to this shtick.

I know this is a big stretch, but perhaps the first two films are the "build up" for Palpatine....

[18-Till-I-Die]

TPM could've been better, yes, but i think it was very good. Better than most movies i've seen. I actually enjoyed it more than the original Star Wars New Hope, which means it is prety high on my list.

And i liked Jar Jar, i dont care who says he sucked, he was funny and endearing for me.

[Galvatron]

TPM bothered me because of it's early start in the SW timeline, lack of a strong presence by a compelling villain, and the underdevelopment of the (IMO) all-too important friendship between Anakin and Obi-Wan.

This is how I'd have done it...

The Clone Wars would be bigger and involve scores of regional galactic superpowers embroiled in an ever-escalating series of wars against each other with the various factions continually devising faster or more efficient means of generating and supplying their enormous clone armies.

The Republic and the Jedi would be caught in the middle, trying to keep the peace whenever possible and rendering assistance to those who request aid in defending their territories against the aggressors.

That's where Episode 1 would begin.

Anakin would start out as a brilliant yet dutiful 20-something fighter pilot in General Kenobi's army. Old beyond his years from seeing too many of his comrades die, he's developed a hatred for war and a cynical resentment toward the Republic and the Senate for not taking decisive action to achieve a lasting peace. At this point, Anakin isn't personally acquainted with Obi-Wan...

Speaking of Obi-Wan, he'd start out as a legendary Jedi Knight and general of the 202nd Galactic Army which has been ordered by the Chancellor to defend the Alderaan sector against incursions by the Mandalorian Hegemony. Like Anakin, Obi-Wan is war weary, but has the maturity and training to remain collected and serene in most situations. He's a true leader of men.

Anyway, battles take place, Anakin meets Obi-Wan, they get shot down and end up stranded within hostile territory. Adventure ensues. The two men end up as good friends, saving each others lives time and again, yadda, yadda, yadda...

That's how I'd set the tone for the prequels...