Swift Boat Shyster: Another Lie From John O'Neil

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-08-19 12:45am

It's bad enough that John O'Neil's co-author is a bigoted crank. It's even worse when Corsi's Jew-hating, anti-Muslim bigotry is exposed, O'Neil changes his story and now claims Corsi was just an editor, which is not what's on and in the book (and shows that O'Neil and Corsi can't get past the dustjacket without lying -a feat only Alan Dershowitz has pulled off!

). But John O'Neil went on Hardball With Chris Matthew and was caught in a lie when he claimed he wasn't involved in politics and wasn't a Republican hack.

But the people at http://mediamatters.org have exposed this huckster once again. It turns out that O'Neil gave $15,000 to candidates for public office -all Republicans. Then, like all bad liars, he compounded one bullshit story with another on Fox News: He didn't donate all that money, his partner Edward O'Neil donated almost half of it. But just as his bullshit story about Kerry's Purple Heart was proved to be a lie by the medical report of the injury and treatment, O'Neil's new story is also proven false by official documents. Media Matters obtained the FEC report that shows the Swift Boat Shyster donating all $15,000.

They say a pathological liar is someone who will lie even when he knows he'll be found out. No doubt John O'Neil is busy concocting another farcical whopper to cover his tracks. I think it'll go something like this: Lt. Rassman used his Green Beret skills to break into the FEC and forge the documents to make O'Neil look bad. Why not? It's no more preposterous than the other stories he's been pimping.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-08-25 09:55am

John O'Neil has been prancing around the country, doing all the right-wing talk shows and saying that Kerry lied about whether or not he was in Cambodia. As it turns out, John Kerry was telling the truth about being in Cambodia, while John O'Neil lied. O'Neil insists that anyone who entered Cambodia would have faced court-martial for it.

www.slate.com/id/2096127

www.atrios.blogspot.com

As the second link shows, John O'Neil is caught on tape in the Nixon White House telling the President that he had been in Cambodia!

O'NEILL: I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border on the water.

NIXON: In a swift boat?

O'NEILL: Yes, sir.

This guy has been making all sorts of charges against Kerry and each one has been exposed as a fraud. What a dick!

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-08-25 12:04pm

The problem here is that these people know the rebuttal won't entirely nullify the effect of the initial slander. It's simple psychology.

First headline: KERRY LIED ABOUT WAR RECORD

Second headline: O'NEIL LIED ABOUT KERRY'S LIES ABOUT WAR RECORD

See what happens? In both headlines, even the one in which O'Neil is proven wrong (assuming they get equal billing, which they won't, particularly on places like Faux News), Kerry's name is in the same sentence as "LIED", while George W. Bush's name is nowhere to be seen. The effect is that there are always negative-sounding headlines about Kerry, but not Bush. Even retractions to accusations leveled against Kerry have a negative sound to them, thus leading those who are driven more by emotion than thought (read: most people) to associate Kerry with negativity and dishonesty.

Modern Republican advertising techniques are highly sophisticated (bordering on sheer genius, actually) and take heavy advantage of psychological association conditioning. Basically, the thinking is that if you keep putting negative thoughts and negative words out there in association with someone's name, then the public will start to draw a connection even if you have not made your case in a logical fashion. Probably the best example of this is the fact that 70% of Americans (according to the latest polls) believe that Saddam was somehow involved in 9/11, even though Bush never explicitly said that but instead, kept saying "Saddam" and "September 11" in the same sentence over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over ...

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-08-25 08:23pm

The reason it works is because the Dems don't fight back. Someone in Salon likened them to Colonel Nicholson from Bridge On The River Kwai because they tend to abide by the rules while going up against those who ignore the rules at every turn.

Which I think shows why Kerry should spend more time attacking Bush's record than defending his own. Bush has been caught in a photo wearing a medal he never earned. Keep hammering away on it and insist Ian Williams' book Deserter be given equal time.

Fundamental Rule Of Life: If someone hits you, don't complain -hit 'em back harder. Payback is a bitch -just like Ann Coulter.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-08-25 08:35pm

And we care about this, Elfpenis, why? After the 22,12023th post by
Elfdick on OMG LOL JOHN O NEILL IS A LYING SHYSTER! I don' give
a shit no more. Stop wasting bandwidth and post something intelligent,
and provocative, rather than slinging insults around like mud is going
out of style, Elfdick.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-08-25 08:41pm

For some balance:

Christmas in Cambodia - Part VII
Washington Post Dances around SwiftVet Charges
Does America's Media outsource all of it's work to the UK?
Christmas in Cambodia - Part VIII
The Magic PCF

There's a lot more....

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-08-25 08:44pm

It's quite funny to read much of the left's indignation over the SBVFT controversy.

After 3 years of attacks on Bush's service through the AWOL pseudo issue and the relentless attacks from allied 527s such as MoveOn (the bush = Hilter ad) et al (how many discredited books, cocaine myths, etc.), including Moore's various prevarications, one little 527 with a measily 150K at it's disposal is suddenly a THREAT to democracy. Call the Marines!!

The closest that the MSM came to addressing Moore's F911 truth issues is to say he was addressing greater truths. Hilarious. And with many members of the DNC attending, applauding his d'oeuvre de merde. Not only that but inviting him as a welcome guest to the DNC convention.

Imagine if Bush welcomed the SBVFT, applauded them and they were a welcome guest at the RNC convention. The media would freak.

So far, there is little response, but the NYT thinks that six degrees of SBVFT is an indicator of a VRWC.

Give it a break. Like it or not, this is McCain Feingold and free speech at work.

Oh, I forgot, for the left, it is "Free speech for me but not for thee".

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2004-08-25 09:04pm

22,12023th post by

That's just a wee bit of an exaggeration.

I don' give
a shit no more.

Is he posting the same exact material every time, or is it a new lie every time? I would get sick of the same one, but it is interesting to see who does what.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-08-25 11:29pm

Gee, the last three posts by the Sheepfucker show how well he keeps up with current events.

It's more than six degrees. So far two men (Cordier and Ginsberg) have been caught red-handed working for Bush's campaign and the Swift Boat Scumbags at the same time -a federal offense.

How desperate are we, Shep? Desperate enough to reach into the sewer for the crank sources you linked to. The Captain's Cabin should be renamed the Captain's Log -and not in reference to a naval journal.

The essay was also bogus. If it turned out that Michael Moore was actually on Kerry's payroll when he made Fahrenheit 9-11, you might have a point, but like most moral and intellectual lepers, you confuse the truthful ads by MoveOn to the proven lies of the Swift Boat Shysters.

And no, you factually challenged putz, MoveOn did not run the ads that likened Bush to Hitler (Why would they? Unlike Bush, Der Fuhrer was legitimately elected and wasn't a deserter from the armed forces when he served.). They solicited ads from the public for a contest and out of over 1000 entries, two did the Bush/ Hitler thing. They were removed when they were discovered and the only place they could be seen afterward was on the RNCs website. So no, MoveOn did NOT liken Bush to Hitler.

Given your allergic reaction to facts, no wonder you support Bush and the not-so-Swifties. Which leads to your last pile of horseshit: You don't care? Yeah, the links and the flames prove that. You dork!

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-08-25 11:32pm

Boyish-Tigerlilly wrote:
22,12023th post by
That's just a wee bit of an exaggeration.

I don' give
a shit no more.

Is he posting the same exact material every time, or is it a new lie every time? I would get sick of the same one, but it is interesting to see who does what.

Check out the link to mediamatters.org. They discover new bullshit about O'Neil and the Swift Boat Bullshitters almost every day. Even better, they run the actual video so you can see for yourself.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2004-08-26 12:54am

The reason it works is because the Dems don't fight back.

Are you kidding? The Dems are so hypersensitive and spring into Counterattack mode so quick, it's the main reason why it's such a controversy. When F9/11 came out, the Bush response was nil. Nothing. No comment. Just ignored it, and so far, it's done no appreciable impact to his approval ratings.

Now Kerry's got his "I'm a Vietnam Superman!" thing blowing up in his face, he's trying to sue to hell (thankfully, the FEC told 'im to go take a hike) anybody that says anything less-than-blowjobbish about Saint Kerry.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2004-08-26 12:56am

Umm...

O'Neill served until the summer of 1970.

After a year on the Woodpecker, O'Neill transferred to the Swift boats in the spring of 1969, serving on them until the summer of 1970. His boat was fired on many times as it patrolled the Cambodian border, as well as the Uminh and Namcan forests in southern Vietnam. In the Swifts, says O'Neill, the average length of service was twelve months; John Kerry was in for four.

It's very possible that he actually did go into Cambodia, considering that Nixon authorized operations there in the spring of 1970.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-08-26 01:29am

Soros' Money gets to work

MoveOn.org, the organized creamy nougat center of the radical wing of the Democratic Party, is preparing to release a slew of anti-Bush ads. (Hat tip: zulubaby.)

Unveiled Tuesday night in New York, the 30-second videos are the work of artists including directors Rob Reiner, John Sayles and Benny Boom, musician Moby, comedians Margaret Cho and Al Franken, and actors Kevin Bacon, Matt Damon and Scarlett Johansson.

MoveOn PAC plans to have at least a few of the ads run on television in key states. The first to go on TV, “Everybody,” was written and directed by Boom. He’s best known as a director of videos for such rap and hip-hop artists as P. Diddy, Lil’ Kim and Nelly. The ad is to start airing Friday in a still-to-be-determined number of states.

“Everybody” follows a young African-American man who leads a group of his friends to a polling place. A white police officer stops them to ask, “What’s the problem?” The young man replies, “No problem, we’re here to vote.” Neither Bush nor Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry is mentioned. “It’s not an attack ad, it’s an enlightenment piece,” Boom said in an interview.

But most of the other videos end with the phrase “George Bush, he’s not on our side.” They will be posted on the group’s moveonpac.org Web site at the rate of one or two a week. They’re part of a “10 Weeks: Don’t Get Mad, Get Even” push by MoveOn PAC to defeat President Bush. Which ones will also run on TV will be determined in coming weeks, says Laura Dawn, MoveOn PAC’s event and cultural director.

The most memorable of the videos could be four starring “Jimmy the Cab Driver.” Actor Donal Logue reprises a role he has played in MTV promos, as a maniacal New York City hack. Jimmy regales his passengers with his political opinions. In one, he talks about how he doesn’t earn enough to take much advantage of tax cuts signed into law by Bush. “But I appreciate the gesture,” Jimmy says of the cuts.

As John Kerry continues to charge the Bush campaign with illegal connections to the Swift Boat Veterans, and his media wing (i.e. the New York Times and Washington Post) do their damnedest to dig up every speck of dirt, please remember that the Democratic Party has been openly coordinating their plans with MoveOn.org for quite some time:

WVC: Senate Democrats Introduce Plan to Stimulate the Economy.

The Democratic Party is partnering with MoveOn.org, People for the American Way, Campaign for America’s Future, and dozens of other groups representing millions of Americans to organize a massive public mobilization.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2004-08-26 01:30am

O'Neill's time in country overlaps with Nixon's widening of the war, while Kerry's oft repeated statements about being in Cambodia for Christmas 1968 have nothing to back them up.

And here's some more pimping of his Vietnam record from Kerry:

Link

I remember well April, 1968 - I was serving in Vietnam -- a place of violence -- when the news reports brought home to me and my crewmates the violence back home - and the tragic news that one of the bullets flying that terrible spring took the life of that unabashedly maladjusted citizen.

Apparently he doesn't remember that in April of 1968, he was serving on the USS Gridley, a guided missile frigate. He was not in Vietnam until November of that year, according to his own website

July 20, 1968 Kerry leaves Gridley for specialized training at the Naval Amphibious Base in Coronado, CA in preparation for service as commander of a Swift Boat. These unarmored, but heavily armed, fifty foot aluminum hulled patrol boats depended on speed and agility when engaging the enemy.

November 17, 1968 Upon completion of his training, Kerry reports for duty to Coastal Squadron 1, Coastal Division 14, Cam Ranh Bay, South Vietnam.

Kerry's doing a good job of making himself out to be a liar without any help from O'Neill.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-08-26 04:43pm

Glocksman wrote:O'Neill's time in country overlaps with Nixon's widening of the war, while Kerry's oft repeated statements about being in Cambodia for Christmas 1968 have nothing to back them up.

And here's some more pimping of his Vietnam record from Kerry:

Link

I remember well April, 1968 - I was serving in Vietnam -- a place of violence -- when the news reports brought home to me and my crewmates the violence back home - and the tragic news that one of the bullets flying that terrible spring took the life of that unabashedly maladjusted citizen.
Apparently he doesn't remember that in April of 1968, he was serving on the USS Gridley, a guided missile frigate. He was not in Vietnam until November of that year, according to his own website

July 20, 1968 Kerry leaves Gridley for specialized training at the Naval Amphibious Base in Coronado, CA in preparation for service as commander of a Swift Boat. These unarmored, but heavily armed, fifty foot aluminum hulled patrol boats depended on speed and agility when engaging the enemy.

November 17, 1968 Upon completion of his training, Kerry reports for duty to Coastal Squadron 1, Coastal Division 14, Cam Ranh Bay, South Vietnam.
Kerry's doing a good job of making himself out to be a liar without any help from O'Neill.

So the men who serve aboard ships at sea in the region during the war aren't Vietnam veterans? Talk about grasping for straws!

Shep, there's a difference between writing letters to senators a collaborating on advertising -which is against the law and has been since 1974. Try again.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2004-08-26 06:48pm

So the men who serve aboard ships at sea in the region during the war aren't Vietnam veterans? Talk about grasping for straws!

.

Kerry's own words are "I was serving in Vietnam -- a place of violence.

Last I heard, the South China Sea isn't in the middle of Vietnam.

My uncle served aboard the USS Constellation in 1971-72 on Yankee station as a supply officer, yet he never says he was 'in Vietnam' because of it.

Shit, even Kerry in 'Tour of Duty' says that 'nothing much of note' happened while he was on board the ship.

Link

Kerry never talked about his time on GRIDLEY. He says on page 74 that it is because “nothing much of note” happened while he was onboard. He uses words like monotony and tedious, when, despite being a boot ensign he was given every opportunity for responsibility by Captain Slifer and Commander Kelly (XO). He came aboard designated for Electrical Officer (80100), a grunt position in the Engineering Department and spent four months in that position. He was assigned duty as First Lieutenant, as Commander Kelly recalls, because of his knowledge of seamanship and his experiences with small boats and sailing. Besides being responsible for the decks of the ship, the First Lieutenant is also responsible for the ship’s small boats. He also was assigned collateral duties as Public Affairs Officer. Despite all the responsibilities he was given, he gives the impression that serving on GRIDLEY was somehow beneath him. He certainly had less of an opportunity to collect “gongs” there.

I'm not the one whose grasping at straws.
Kerry did indeed serve in Vietnam, just not in April 1968.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2004-08-26 06:51pm

And before you accuse me of being a Bush partisan, I don't like GWB either.

Of all the Democrats that ran for the nomination and that I was willing to support, they had to go and nominate the one asshole I could never bring myself to vote for.

Bush and Kerry are both douchebags who deserve each other.

Shit, even Gephardt would have made a better candidate.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2004-08-26 06:56pm

So the men who serve aboard ships at sea in the region during the war aren't Vietnam veterans? Talk about grasping for straws!

Forgot to clarify that yes, the men on the ships are indeed Vietnam veterans.

However, Kerry isn't saying his service on the Gridley made him a Vietnam veteran, he's saying that he was actually in the country in April 1968.

This is a lie. Period. End of discussion.

Though the veteran statement was a nice attempt to spin the issue away from his lie about being in country.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-08-26 07:07pm

Kerry said he was serving in Vietnam. He didn't say he was on land the whole time. Nice of you to quote only part of his record, Glocksman. But here's the part you left out:

June 8, 1967 – Kerry reports to USS Gridley-serves in several capacities.

February 9, 1968 – USS Gridley departs for a Western Pacific (WESTPAC) deployment, to engage in operations in support of the Vietnam War. Ship spends time in the Gulf of Tonkin off North Vietnam, at Subic Bay in the Philippines and in Wellington, New Zealand.

February 10, 1968 – Kerry requests duty in Vietnam He lists his first preference for a position as an officer in charge of a Swift Boat (designated PCF for Patrol Craft Fast), his second as an officer in a patrol boat (designated PBR, for Patrol Boat River) squadron.

May 27, 1968 – USS Gridley sets sail for the US.

So, Kerry was serving in Vietnam in April of 1968, whether he set foot on land during that time or not. By your logic, if a sailor in WW2 said he served in Europe, but spent most or all of his time at sea in the Med or the North Atlantic, he's lying. That's horseshit and you know it.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-08-26 07:13pm

New Front Opens on Kerry

Oh man, this is looking to be fun

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-08-26 07:17pm

MKSheppard wrote:New Front Opens on Kerry

Oh man, this is looking to be fun

And the point of this is?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-08-26 07:20pm

Elfdart wrote:And the point of this is?

It's funny, unlike your endless repetitions of the same subject over and
over, hurling insults at anyone who opposes your viewpoint, etc etc,
calling everyone a right wing smear machine politician, etc.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-08-26 07:49pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Elfdart wrote:And the point of this is?
It's funny, unlike your endless repetitions of the same subject over and
over, hurling insults at anyone who opposes your viewpoint, etc etc,
calling everyone a right wing smear machine politician, etc.

Pot... kettle...

You know what's funny about these Freikorps types? Even they don't actually accuse Kerry of lying when he testified before Congress in 1971. They say that Kerry's testimony was "outrageous" or that it hutt their wittle feewings. Well... TOUGH SHIT!

They are just proof that the truth hurts. If Kerry should be faulted for something, it's that he understated the atrocities US forces had committed. But then, he didn't know about Tiger Force Three, did he?

Besides, the whole notion that what Kerry said caused POWs harm is nonsense. Do you think the Vietnamese would have kicked less shit out of them if Kerry said: "Senators, all demonstrators are communist, devil-worshipping fags who need to be shot at once. Then we should firebomb all of Vietnam until every gook looks like Al Jolson. Thank you, God bless America -and don't let niggers move into my neighborhood." ?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-26 08:03pm

They are just proof that the truth hurts. If Kerry should be faulted for something, it's that he understated the atrocities US forces had committed.

Prove it, dumbass.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-08-26 08:12pm

Elfdart wrote:You know what's funny about these Freikorps types?

I only wish we did have a Freikorps, then people like you
would be thrown against the wall when the revolution comes