Potential Government.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

This has something to do with politics, so I guess it might go here.

When do you think it would be the earliest possible period of history (medieval-modern) to implement a quasi-democratic government based on the ideals of the Enlightenment.

For example, say you were a leader of a nation-state during the high middle ages. Would you be able to rule without the attempted iron fist which developed throughout nations? Would the people be ready for such a new, inovative government?

[Patrick Degan]

This has something to do with politics, so I guess it might go here.

When do you think it would be the earliest possible period of history (medieval-modern) to implement a quasi-democratic government based on the ideals of the Enlightenment.

For example, say you were a leader of a nation-state during the high middle ages. Would you be able to rule without the attempted iron fist which developed throughout nations? Would the people be ready for such a new, inovative government?

The idea of consensual government predates the Enlightenment by many centuries. There are, of course, the examples of Athens and Rome to look at. There is also the example of the althingi, the Icelandic national assembly. It is considered one of the oldest representative governments in existence, founded in AD 930.

[Xenophobe3691]

A long time ago, but you need to have a tradition of responsible self-rule among the people. Hell, the Greeks pulled it off.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

I know some ideas dated back into the classical period, but I wonder if the people of the middle ages could deal with it. They weren't stupid, especially as the late middle ages wore on, but I am wondering if they could cope with something even along the lines of the 18th century/early 19th century republican era.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I know some ideas dated back into the classical period, but I wonder if the people of the middle ages could deal with it. They weren't stupid, especially as the late middle ages wore on, but I am wondering if they could cope with something even along the lines of the 18th century/early 19th century republican era.

There were numerous examples of limited consensual government in medieval times. Many cities in both Italy and the Holy Roman Empire had elected offices, and full enfranchisement occasionally occurred when populist groups seized control of Italian city states. Even in more centralized kingdoms, cities often had elected posts, and corporations (which means, of course, something entirely different then than it does now) usually operated with a degree of internal democracy.

Really, the only thing seperating modern democracy from classical democracy--or a classical republic--is the failure to implement representation. Such governments had democratic segments (or were entirely democratic) which were balanced with more autocratic segments and functioned much like many modern republics--but the democratic segments relied on direct vote of the assembled populace. This limited population size and territorial expanse for effective democracy. Had the concept of representation come into existence in classical times, the result could have been truly revolutionary.

[Gil Hamilton]

A long time ago, but you need to have a tradition of responsible self-rule among the people. Hell, the Greeks pulled it off.

Depends on what part of ancient Greece. Much of Greece was never democratic in the Periclean age where Athens was a democracy, and even Athens I wouldn't really call a democracy. Every citizen had the right to vote, but a "citizen" was a land owning male from Athens. If you were a women, a foriegner, really poor, or a slave, you were screwed. Then again, that pretty much describes America too until the early 20th century, so maybe you could get away with calling Athens a real democracy... but I'd give it a large asterix.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

I did read how the cities had more freedoms than the majority of areas, especially italy for a time, but they also said the feudal order kept much power away from the masses outside of the cities. was that true?

There were numerous examples of limited consensual government in medieval times. Many cities in both Italy and the Holy Roman Empire had elected offices, and full enfranchisement occasionally occurred when populist groups seized control of Italian city states. Even in more centralized kingdoms, cities often had elected posts, and corporations (which means, of course, something entirely different then than it does now) usually operated with a degree of internal democracy.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Depends on what part of ancient Greece. Much of Greece was never democratic in the Periclean age where Athens was a democracy, and even Athens I wouldn't really call a democracy. Every citizen had the right to vote, but a "citizen" was a land owning male from Athens. If you were a women, a foriegner, really poor, or a slave, you were screwed. Then again, that pretty much describes America too until the early 20th century, so maybe you could get away with calling Athens a real democracy... but I'd give it a large asterix.

The land qualification was abolished in Athens, so all adult male citizens could vote. That's what made Athens different from the other city states; in most of which there was a requirement to own at least ten acres of land before you had the right to vote.

[Gil Hamilton]

The land qualification was abolished in Athens, so all adult male citizens could vote. That's what made Athens different from the other city states; in most of which there was a requirement to own at least ten acres of land before you had the right to vote.

I could have sworn that Athens had a land owning voting policy, even in the Periclean age. Oh well, that still makes the amount of people in Athens even able to vote, like what, 10% of the population?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I could have sworn that Athens had a land owning voting policy, even in the Periclean age. Oh well, that still makes the amount of people in Athens even able to vote, like what, 10% of the population?

I would suggest looking around at this site.

[Gil Hamilton]

I would suggest looking around at this site.

Fascinating, thanks for the link.