Stormie armor vs Jem Hadar weapons

[Chris OFarrell]

Except that he told Garak in the sickbay bed that the overloaded phaser detonation was intended to kill him.

He specifically said the phaser detonation (not sure if overloaded was said or not, but I think so).

He said it was meant to kill him yes. I never said otherwise. What I am disputing was that it was an overload. Given that overloads require around a miunite of building up with a loud whine that increases in frequency and causes much more damage, its safe to say its not the same.

[Chris OFarrell]

Oh and I checked the script. He does not say anything about an overload.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Oh and I checked the script. He does not say anything about an overload.

So that unsafe phaser can be set to blow without even overloading it. Ah, what a wonderfully safe weapon ... the phaser.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Oh and I checked the script. He does not say anything about an overload.

So that unsafe phaser can be set to blow without even overloading it. Ah, what a wonderfully safe weapon ... the phaser.

If tampered with...sure. I think you could probably do that with most weapons.

[Praxis]

And when the power pack goes off, it does less damage than a modern day grenade.

Wow, that packs a lot of power!

[Gil Hamilton]

If tampered with...sure. I think you could probably do that with most weapons.

I've yet to encounter the modern day rifle that lethally explodes if it's tampered with. Most real weapons don't catastrophically fail like a bomb when are tampered with, they just stop working. That doesn't speak well for the phasers safety.

[Kamakazie Sith]

And when the power pack goes off, it does less damage than a modern day grenade.

Wow, that packs a lot of power!

A modern day grenade will destroy an entire deck of a CCS? I don't think so...

I think all we saw was a phaser used in a manner like a grenade but also in a way that the Obrien would survive his own trap. I don't know why people constantly insist that characters would want to commit suicide....reminds me of the STV argument...or maybe the AOTC argument with Boba not wanting to kill his dad will kiloton level bursts.

[Kamakazie Sith]

If tampered with...sure. I think you could probably do that with most weapons.

I've yet to encounter the modern day rifle that lethally explodes if it's tampered with. Most real weapons don't catastrophically fail like a bomb when are tampered with, they just stop working. That doesn't speak well for the phasers safety.

You forget that it also contains enough energy to vaporize a human being....don't you think as weapons get more powerful so do the consequences of a malfuction?

[Gil Hamilton]

You forget that it also contains enough energy to vaporize a human being....don't you think as weapons get more powerful so do the consequences of a malfuction?

But it's stored in a powerpak of some sort. I could crack a full charged powerpack with a shovel all day and it wouldn't cause the energy stored in it to violently and spontaneously release, nor could I alter it to release all it's energy like a bomb. It would take poor design for such an explosion to be possible in the first place with tampering.

[Praxis]

If tampered with...sure. I think you could probably do that with most weapons.

I've yet to encounter the modern day rifle that lethally explodes if it's tampered with. Most real weapons don't catastrophically fail like a bomb when are tampered with, they just stop working. That doesn't speak well for the phasers safety.

Modern day weapons don't have power packs or batteries.

If they did, you could probably rig the battery to explode on command.

[Gil Hamilton]

Modern day weapons don't have power packs or batteries.

If they did, you could probably rig the battery to explode on command.

I know how modern days weapons work, thanks.

[Praxis]

If tampered with...sure. I think you could probably do that with most weapons.

I've yet to encounter the modern day rifle that lethally explodes if it's tampered with. Most real weapons don't catastrophically fail like a bomb when are tampered with, they just stop working. That doesn't speak well for the phasers safety.

You forget that it also contains enough energy to vaporize a human being....don't you think as weapons get more powerful so do the consequences of a malfuction?

It obviously does NOT have te energy to vaporize a human being. Haven't you heard of NDF? In one episode of DS9, a phaser blast hits a table and leaves a tiny burn mark then immediately thereafter hits a crewmember and vaporizes him, then hits a computer and only causes sparks. Chain reaction with organics, anyone?

However, you ARE right about the safety. If you recall the Voyager episode where two crewmembers (I think one was Tom Paris, the other Tuvok, but I'm not sure) are trapped in Seska's revenge holodeck program, Tom Paris manages to hotwire a phaser in two seconds, fast enough that person holding a gun to him didn't notice, so that when she took his weapon and fired it would explode.

If it takes less than two seconds to hotwire a phaser, and it can be done easily (you don't even have to remove the outside cover), phasers are certainly dangerous. A traitor that gets in a weapons locker and sabotages the weapons so that the entire allied army walks out with guns that would explode when they fire...just imagine.

[Kamakazie Sith]

You forget that it also contains enough energy to vaporize a human being....don't you think as weapons get more powerful so do the consequences of a malfuction?

But it's stored in a powerpak of some sort. I could crack a full charged powerpack with a shovel all day and it wouldn't cause the energy stored in it to violently and spontaneously release, nor could I alter it to release all it's energy like a bomb. It would take poor design for such an explosion to be possible in the first place with tampering.

And Picard busted his phaser rifle over a Reman's head and it didn't explode violently. Batteries do have warnings that indicate they can explode so maybe you could rig one to explode.

[Kamakazie Sith]

[quote="Praxis"]

It obviously does NOT have te energy to vaporize a human being. Haven't you heard of NDF? In one episode of DS9, a phaser blast hits a table and leaves a tiny burn mark then immediately thereafter hits a crewmember and vaporizes him, then hits a computer and only causes sparks. Chain reaction with organics, anyone?
[quote]

I've heard of NDF. However, since the explosion of a phaser on overload can destroy an entire deck I think it's safe to assume it has enough power to DET vaporize a human.

What episode was this? Was that the episode where they trigger some Cardassian computer program?

Since we don't know what materials those objects are made out of it I hardly think that is good enough evidence that a phaser couldn't vaporize someone through DET. But you really don't have to prove a negative and there's no evidence to support that it can besides speculation so I concede

[Praxis]

It obviously does NOT have te energy to vaporize a human being. Haven't you heard of NDF? In one episode of DS9, a phaser blast hits a table and leaves a tiny burn mark then immediately thereafter hits a crewmember and vaporizes him, then hits a computer and only causes sparks. Chain reaction with organics, anyone?

I've heard of NDF. However, since the explosion of a phaser on overload can destroy an entire deck I think it's safe to assume it has enough power to DET vaporize a human.

What episode was this? Was that the episode where they trigger some Cardassian computer program?

Since we don't know what materials those objects are made out of it I hardly think that is good enough evidence that a phaser couldn't vaporize someone through DET. But you really don't have to prove a negative and there's no evidence to support that it can besides speculation so I concede

Yes, that's it. There are dozens, maybe hundreds, of wild hits, hitting computers, the table, the wall, the computers, and when one of them hits someone he vaporizes. Forgot the name of the episode, but it was the one where they trigger the Cardassian computer program, yup.

Ironically, it appears the Federation OS is capable of running Cardassian programs, despite that the Cardassians computers probably had different API's (or something completely different) and a different processor family. Perhaps emulation? This means that Federation computers are so "user friendly" that they can run CARDASSIAN computer viruses on FEDERATION hardware.

[neoolong]

Ironically, it appears the Federation OS is capable of running Cardassian programs, despite that the Cardassians computers probably had different API's (or something completely different) and a different processor family. Perhaps emulation? This means that Federation computers are so "user friendly" that they can run CARDASSIAN computer viruses on FEDERATION hardware.

How is that suprising? The Iconian computer virus was run on Federation equipment and even made a ship blow up.

[Praxis]

Yeah, just something I never thought of before.

Perhaps the system has built in emulation, that lets it emulate any other type of known hardware and software and therefore, run almost any type of computer viruses?

[Master of Ossus]

I've heard of NDF. However, since the explosion of a phaser on overload can destroy an entire deck I think it's safe to assume it has enough power to DET vaporize a human.

Kirk ordered the EVACUATION of an entire deck in response to the threat caused by a phaser set for overload. However, that indicates that the phaser has much less power than would be required to actually destroy the deck, since he did not see fit to evacuate people on neighboring decks (even those directly above and below the explosion). It was almost certainly a precautionary measure, designed to protect people from fires or such.

[Kamakazie Sith]

I've heard of NDF. However, since the explosion of a phaser on overload can destroy an entire deck I think it's safe to assume it has enough power to DET vaporize a human.

Kirk ordered the EVACUATION of an entire deck in response to the threat caused by a phaser set for overload. However, that indicates that the phaser has much less power than would be required to actually destroy the deck, since he did not see fit to evacuate people on neighboring decks (even those directly above and below the explosion). It was almost certainly a precautionary measure, designed to protect people from fires or such.

Thanks for clearing that up MoO. I haven't seen that episode in ages.....

[Chris OFarrell]

WHY is everyone going on about how its poor design that O'Brien was able to make the phaser detonoate?

O'Brien is a frigen Federation Enginear working on a frigen Federation Phaser rifle! I'm sue he could make it sing and dance if necessary. Its not poor saftey design, its simply an energy weapon with a powerpack he is able to use to produce a designed effect. I could make a gun go boom with enough time, have all the rounds cook off together in their magazine. Is it designed to do this? No. Does it have a button that makes it happen? No. And it required an external Tricorder at any rate as well.

[Patrick Ogaard]

Yeah, just something I never thought of before.

Perhaps the system has built in emulation, that lets it emulate any other type of known hardware and software and therefore, run almost any type of computer viruses?

The DS9 incident was not a virus, though. It's well established that Federation computer systems will uncritically run almost anything, such as the computer virus transmitted by the Ikonian probe of TNG's Contagion (the virus that destroyed the Yamato, knocked Data out cold, and nearly destroyed the Enterprise-D). However, that was not what happened in DS9's Civil Defense.

In DS9, the computers were Cardassian, with some Federation workstations used by the Starfleet personnel. Thus the constant use of Cardassian isolinear rods instead of Starfleet-standard isolinear chips. The computer core had not been completely wiped and rewritten, probably in part a justifiable omission since Starfleet would otherwise have had to generate from scratch all the necessary programs to control DS9, including repair and analysis and, in effect, blueprinting the entire station. In that case, it would have probably been more practical to construct a small Starfleet-standard starbase instead. If anything, the Cardassian computers were running some limited emulations of Starfleet computer programs in addition to their standard Cardassian programs.

The program triggered in Civil Defense was a carefully buried Cardassian security program with multiple degrees of response (and with a nasty Easter egg for Gul Dukat). Of course, that doesn't change the fact that in DS9's The Forsaken, the Cardassian computer running Cardassian and Federation programs downloads and installs Rover, an alien software-based lifeform that causes no end of trouble until O'Brien builds it a "dog house" to play in.

[Praxis]

WHY is everyone going on about how its poor design that O'Brien was able to make the phaser detonoate?

We were going on about how OTHER incidents point to poor design, such as the fact that you can rig a phaser to explode when the trigger is pulled in under 2 seconds (voyager). O'Brien's case only shows that the detonation wasn't very powerful.

[The Nomad]

Reminds me of the ZF-1...

( *imagine a Klingon handling the gun, wondering what the red button is, then dropping the gun to attack a redshirt HtH...* )

[Chris OFarrell]

WHY is everyone going on about how its poor design that O'Brien was able to make the phaser detonoate?

We were going on about how OTHER incidents point to poor design, such as the fact that you can rig a phaser to explode when the trigger is pulled in under 2 seconds (voyager). O'Brien's case only shows that the detonation wasn't very powerful.

I don't recall any incident when a phaser was rigged to overload in two seconds. I recall Tuvok set upa phaser so it for whatever reason fried SESKA, but thats not an overload.

[Praxis]

Read what you quoted. I said, "Rigged to explode", not overload.

But if a phaser can be rigged to explode when the trigger is pulled in a split second...that doesn't say much about phaser safety.