Church won't waiver over wafer

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-08-19 08:57pm

BRIELLE, New Jersey (AP) -- An 8-year-old girl who suffers from a rare digestive disorder and cannot eat wheat has had her first Holy Communion declared invalid because the wafer contained no wheat, violating Roman Catholic doctrine.

Now, Haley Waldman's mother is pushing the Diocese of Trenton and the Vatican to make an exception, saying the girl's condition should not exclude her from the sacrament, which commemorates the Last Supper of Jesus Christ before his crucifixion. The mother believes a rice Communion wafer would suffice.

"It's just not a viable option. How does it corrupt the tradition of the Last Supper? It's just rice versus wheat," said Elizabeth Pelly-Waldman.

Church doctrine holds that Communion wafers, like the bread served at the Last Supper, must have at least some unleavened wheat. Church leaders are reluctant to change anything about the sacrament.

"This is not an issue to be determined at the diocesan or parish level, but has already been decided for the Roman Catholic Church throughout the world by Vatican authority," Trenton Bishop John M. Smith said in a statement last week.

Haley was diagnosed with celiac sprue disease when she was 5. The disorder occurs in people with a genetic intolerance of gluten, a food protein contained in wheat and other grains.

When consumed by celiac sufferers, gluten damages the lining of the small intestine, blocking nutrient absorption and leading to vitamin deficiencies, bone-thinning and sometimes gastrointestinal cancer.

The diocese has told Haley's mother that the girl can receive a low-gluten wafer, or just drink wine at Communion, but that anything without gluten does not qualify. Pelly-Waldman rejected the offer, saying her child could be harmed by even a small amount of the substance.

Haley's Communion controversy isn't the first. In 2001, the family of a 5-year-old Massachusetts girl with the disease left the Catholic church after being denied permission to use a rice wafer.

Some Catholic churches allow no-gluten hosts, while others do not, said Elaine Monarch, executive director of the Celiac Disease Foundation, a California-based support group for sufferers.

"It is an undue hardship on a person who wants to practice their religion and needs to compromise their health to do so," Monarch said.

The church has similar rules for Communion wine. For alcoholics, the church allows a substitute for wine under some circumstances, however the drink must still be fermented from grapes and contain some alcohol. Grape juice is not a valid substitute.

Haley, a shy, brown-haired tomboy who loves surfing and hates wearing dresses, realizes the consequences of taking a wheat wafer.

"I'm on a gluten-free diet because I can't have wheat. I could die," she said last week.

Last year, as the third grader approached Holy Communion age in this Jersey Shore town, her mother told officials at St. Denis Catholic Church in Manasquan that the girl could not have the standard host.

After the church's pastor refused to allow a substitute, a priest at a nearby parish volunteered to offer one, and in May, Haley wore a white Communion dress, and received the sacrament alongside her mother, who had not taken Communion since she herself was diagnosed with the disease.

Last month, the diocese told the priest that the church would not validate Haley's sacrament because of the substitute wafer.

"I struggled with telling her that the sacrament did not happen," said Pelly-Waldman. "She lives in a world of rules. She says 'Mommy, do we want to break a rule? Are we breaking a rule?"'

Pelly-Waldman is seeking help from the Pope and has written to Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in Rome, challenging the church's policy.

"This is a church rule, not God's will, and it can easily be adjusted to meet the needs of the people, while staying true to the traditions of our faith," Pelly-Waldman wrote in the letter.

Pelly-Waldman -- who is still attending Mass every Sunday with her four children -- said she is not out to bash the church, just to change the policy that affects her daughter.

"I'm hopeful. Do I think it will be a long road to change? Yes. But I'm raising an awareness and I'm taking it one step at a time," she said.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-08-19 09:01pm

Huh. So, some fiddling technicality in the Catholic Church is more important than the girl taking part in her faith? That's brill.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-08-19 09:01pm

Oh yes, dogma. Jesus is so nice and so redeeming that he came up with a path to redemption that would be closed off to little innocent and very sick girls due to no fault of their own.

Way to go, Jesus!

[Disclaimer: My congratulations to Jesus is actually mocking the absurd position by the Catholic Church that if their Supreme Diety existed, it would give jack or shit about the most inane technicalities of their overrehearsed, obsessive-compulsive, masturbatory rituals.]

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-08-19 09:03pm

Poor kid, that has to be rough on her

tharkûn · Post by **tharkûn** » 2004-08-19 09:05pm

Curious could a a wafer be prepared with sequential dilution of the wheat so as to reach next to nonexistant quantities and still count? If there are 50-50 odds that one molecule of gluten managed to make it into the wafer is it still the body of Christ or does the Catholic just have a 50-50 shot of being damned?

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2004-08-19 09:24pm

Odd, I remember a girl having a similar problem and she just brought her own wafer before Mass which the Priest handed out to her during mass.

I guess it depends who is running the show in the various parishes (and a priest who likes to talk abohout Star Trek and LOTR during his sermons probably isn't that uptight for a priest).

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2004-08-19 09:31pm

Yay to being United Methodist where I really don't have to deal with bullshit like that. That girl and mother must be so upset at this.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-19 09:36pm

I wondered when someone would put this up. I've known it for a couple days. My employers have some explaining to do.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-08-19 10:11pm

So either God doesn't want her to be a Catholic, or God wants her to die. Way to go.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-08-19 10:13pm

So tell the Pope to go fuck himself, and become a Protestant. If all the people who are denied communion did that, the Church would have to do SOMETHING.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-08-19 11:22pm

Rogue 9 wrote:I wondered when someone would put this up. I've known it for a couple days. My employers have some explaining to do.

Eh?

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2004-08-19 11:49pm

Gandalf wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:I wondered when someone would put this up. I've known it for a couple days. My employers have some explaining to do.
Eh?

He works for a monastery but isn't Catholic himself.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2004-08-20 12:01am

You know, for a religion that used to be able to be comfortably analogued to the Borg, they've become quite rigid in their beliefs...

Cyborg Stan · Post by **Cyborg Stan** » 2004-08-20 12:05am

So are supposed to believe that we can transubstantiate bread into flesh, but for some reason wheat works and rice totally doesn't?

Veramocor · Post by **Veramocor** » 2004-08-20 12:07am

Devils Advocate time: Yes the Catholic church is being retarded on this one, but she is not being denied communion totally. She could have a sip of the sacramental wine and that would be considered good enough for communion

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2004-08-20 12:23am

Veramocor wrote:Devils Advocate time: Yes the Catholic church is being retarded on this one, but she is not being denied communion totally. She could have a sip of the sacramental wine and that would be considered good enough for communion

I thought the whole ritual needed both the Body and Blood of Christ...

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-08-20 12:31am

Xenophobe3691 wrote:
Veramocor wrote:Devils Advocate time: Yes the Catholic church is being retarded on this one, but she is not being denied communion totally. She could have a sip of the sacramental wine and that would be considered good enough for communion
I thought the whole ritual needed both the Body and Blood of Christ...

No, that's an excellent point. The Eucharist wafer is often standing-in for both the Body and Blood of Christ for both adults and youth but especially kids.

Why can't a sip of sacramental wine stand-in for the wheat-wafer?

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2004-08-20 02:31am

Illuminatus Primus wrote: No, that's an excellent point. The Eucharist wafer is often standing-in for both the Body and Blood of Christ for both adults and youth but especially kids.

Why can't a sip of sacramental wine stand-in for the wheat-wafer?

It's because of legalized gay marriage, can't you see?!? It's already started to wreak its havoc upon our fragile world! Stop Gay Marriage now, before we can't eat Christ's body parts anymore!

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2004-08-20 04:34am

Xenophobe3691 wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote: No, that's an excellent point. The Eucharist wafer is often standing-in for both the Body and Blood of Christ for both adults and youth but especially kids.

Why can't a sip of sacramental wine stand-in for the wheat-wafer?
It's because of legalized gay marriage, can't you see?!? It's already started to wreak its havoc upon our fragile world! Stop Gay Marriage now, before we can't eat Christ's body parts anymore!

We'd still be able to eat Christ's body parts, but it might be considered adultery.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2004-08-20 05:40am

Never mind that the wafer is a totally absurd idea. Until the 12th century or so, the Church used leavened bread anyway...

And if she was in the Eastern churches, all they'd have to do is tell the priest and he'd probably give her a spoonful of wine with maybe a crumb of bread in it. No big deal, that's what they usually give babies anyway.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-20 09:33am

Its true that the sacramental wine would do just as well for the church's purposes, but this is still utterly ridiculous.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-08-20 01:31pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Xenophobe3691 wrote:
Veramocor wrote:Devils Advocate time: Yes the Catholic church is being retarded on this one, but she is not being denied communion totally. She could have a sip of the sacramental wine and that would be considered good enough for communion
I thought the whole ritual needed both the Body and Blood of Christ...
No, that's an excellent point. The Eucharist wafer is often standing-in for both the Body and Blood of Christ for both adults and youth but especially kids.

Why can't a sip of sacramental wine stand-in for the wheat-wafer?

It can. Far as I know, only requirements are you need to either take the wafer or the wine once a year during lent.

Korvan · Post by **Korvan** » 2004-08-20 02:11pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Oh yes, dogma. Jesus is so nice and so redeeming that he came up with a path to redemption that would be closed off to little innocent and very sick girls due to no fault of their own.

Way to go, Jesus!

[Disclaimer: My congratulations to Jesus is actually mocking the absurd position by the Catholic Church that if their Supreme Diety existed, it would give jack or shit about the most inane technicalities of their overrehearsed, obsessive-compulsive, masturbatory rituals.]

If anything, Jesus would probably be a little grossed out. "They're eating what now?!"

If transubstantiion acutally occurs, how long till some group manages to clone Jesus?

Cyborg Stan · Post by **Cyborg Stan** » 2004-08-20 03:59pm

In my view, simply subsituting or using wine in it's place still doesn't address the fundamental concern - what if someone as allergic to both wheat and grape-derived products?

And I'd still like to see them explain the process used to determine what is and is not suitable for transubstantiation.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-08-20 04:16pm

Cyborg Stan wrote:And I'd still like to see them explain the process used to determine what is and is not suitable for transubstantiation.

It's a divine mystery, of course. Jesus Christ can't stand non-wheat, non-grape products.