If you hate Math...

Korvan · Post by **Korvan** » 2004-08-20 01:14pm

...you might want to try living with this Amazon Tribe.

As the article states, this rasies some interesting questions on the relationship between language and sentience.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2004-08-20 01:26pm

Very odd. Not even words for colours?

Korvan · Post by **Korvan** » 2004-08-20 01:51pm

Yeah, it's too bad that they limit contact with their kids, cause it would be interesting to see if they have an easier time picking up the concept of numbers. Even a chimp, taught at a young age can be better at math than these guys.

It was funny when they speculated that inbreeding may be a problem because a lack of number skills makes it hard to identify close kin. (How many sisters did I have again?)

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-08-20 01:54pm

this is actually pretty cool, at least for someone who likes linguistics...

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2004-08-20 01:55pm

It's so bizarre that I almost want to think that they've been pulling an elaborate prank on these anthropologists, kinda like what some believe happened to Margaret Mead in Samoa.

Companion Cube · Post by **Companion Cube** » 2004-08-20 01:55pm

They have no written language, and no collective memory going back more than two generations. They don't sleep for more than two hours at a time during the night or day.

Even when food is available, they frequently starve themselves and their children, Prof. Everett reports.

They communicate almost as much by singing, whistling and humming as by normal speech.

They frequently change their names, because they believe spirits regularly take them over and intrinsically change who they are.

They do not believe that outsiders understand their language even after they have just carried on conversations with them.

They have no creation myths, tell no fictional stories and have no art. All of their pronouns appear to be borrowed from a neighbouring language.

You couldn't make this stuff up....

The part about having no creation myths surprised me the most though, i've never heard of primitive groups having no real religion, or even no fiction- It's like something out of a Terry Pratchett book, where he describes one indigenous tribe as having as having the ancient belief that the sun was a huge ball of burning gas.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-08-20 01:58pm

bizarre. . . .how the hell does any group of humans survive for so long without knowing simple mathematics? i mean, hell, you'd think basic addition and subtraction would be essential at the very least.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-08-20 06:24pm

I found this hilarious for some reason:

More than 60 years ago, amateur linguist Benjamin Lee Whorf argued that learning a specific language determined the nature and content of how you think.

That theory fell into intellectual disrepute after linguist Noam Chomsky's notions of a universal human grammar and Harvard University professor Steven Pinker's idea of a universal language instinct became widely accepted.

So Chomsky is as stupid scientifically as he is politically?

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-08-21 04:08am

I wonder what their IQ is.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-08-21 04:14am

IUnknown wrote:I wonder what their IQ is.

It would be somewhere around "complete retard" level. Which only shows how most IQ tests are flawed, since these people are quite capable of taking care of themselves.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Dooey Jo · Post by **Dooey Jo** » 2004-08-21 06:46am

Weird, that description kinda reminds me of Mike's description of the Borg in Conquest:

They don't play, they don't marry, they don't relax, they don't study philosophy or create art, nor do they take vacations or fight amongst themselves

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2004-08-21 09:00am

MKSheppard wrote:
So Chomsky is as stupid scientifically as he is politically?

I've believed and argued that he was for a long, long time, and it is quite nice to see my reasoning--and the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis--given such a potentially firm boost.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2004-08-21 10:55am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote: I've believed and argued that he was for a long, long time, and it is quite nice to see my reasoning--and the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis--given such a potentially firm boost.

Language is a method/medium of transporting information between people.

Anyone doing any type of computer communications will tell you the medium always has a fundemental impact on how you transport the information through the medium. And the transport methodology of the information is information itself.

How can a people's language not have an impact on said people's knowledge?

lance · Post by **lance** » 2004-08-21 11:36am

I wonder what their IQ is.

I would say their IQ averages out to 100

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-08-21 07:51pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:
So Chomsky is as stupid scientifically as he is politically?
I've believed and argued that he was for a long, long time, and it is quite nice to see my reasoning--and the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis--given such a potentially firm boost.

Dammit, I was going to mention that first, Duchess!

Ah well, anything that rekindles old English Lang. studies and rains on Chomsky's parade is good.

Thinkmarble · Post by **Thinkmarble** » 2004-08-21 08:43pm

MKSheppard wrote: So Chomsky is as stupid scientifically as he is politically?

Only if you believe that Newton is an idiot.