Asian Politics and Society

[Coyote]

And by Asian I mean, like most Americans, the places like China, Japan, Korea, Philippenes, Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia, Mongolia, etc...

IN talking with Lilith while home on leave I found out that as far as most Asians seem to think, Japan is not really one of them. They are more of the opinion that Japan is a Western country and cozys up to the West (specifically, but not exclusively, America).

ONe reason for this is that Japan never did face up to its imperial past or the brutality of WW 2, and this will keep them at arm's length from the rest of Asia until steps are taken to rectify that. The Japanese are percieved to be arrogant and racist by other nations in the region.

It seems that no matter how big and loud China is, or no matter how dangerous and unstable North Korea is, the entire region still sees Japan as the primary threat to stability and harmony in the region. Even if Japan admitted guilt for WW 2 and its imperial past... even if Japan abased themselves before Asia and paid reparations... Japan will still be seen as the mean wolverine in the corner that must be guarded against.

Yet the US and much of the West seems to treat Japan as the doorway to Asia... if the US has difficulty communicating with an Asian government, we ask Japan if they can help smooth things over. Is this a diplomatic blunder, or do people realize that we are just not aware of these things? To the US, Japan is a de-fanged tiger that, if anything, does not do enough to shore up its own defense. But if JApan were to build a single aircraft carrier, the Chinese would probably bomb it and the rest of Asia, despite their differences, would stand united behind this action.

What is the best course for Asia, Japan, and the West in this awkward, three-way standoff? Any insight?

[Tsyroc]

Certainly Japan should own up to it's past but It's almost funny that all of those much larger countries would still be so afraid of Japan.

[Gil Hamilton]

Well, many Japanese citizens and within the government are racist and arrogant, particularly against ethnic Chinese, Koreans, and Flipinos. That is baked in after hundreds of years of being on bad terms with any and all of them. A friend of mine illustrated this by saying that if her grandmother should ever give her too much trouble now that she's going back to her family, she'll mention how many Americans she's slept with (as in, more than zero), which would probably get her kicked out so she could move back home to the States again.

But what you've got to understand as that there really isn't "Asian Countries". Every single one of them is different from the others, and many of them have alot of bad blood with each other. Saying that Japan is kind of excluded from the Oriental Club by the others is kind of untrue, since the Club doesn't exist in the first place. They'll form economic groups, but saying to a native S. Korean that they are part of the group with China might get you a very dirty look indeed.

[desertjedi]

Each asian country is almost as bad as Japan socially. The Chinese hate the japanese, Koreans hate Chinese, Koreans can't stand the Vietnamese. I think it's true that there is no Asian Nation Club. Each nation is in it for themselves, just like the rest of the globe.

[desertjedi]

uh.. that should read Vietnamese can't stand the Koreans... trying not to pick on any one nation in particular.

[PainRack]

IN talking with Lilith while home on leave I found out that as far as most Asians seem to think, Japan is not really one of them. They are more of the opinion that Japan is a Western country and cozys up to the West (specifically, but not exclusively, America).

Never had that amongst my friends. And I knew quite a lot of chinese and indonesians.

It seems that no matter how big and loud China is, or no matter how dangerous and unstable North Korea is, the entire region still sees Japan as the primary threat to stability and harmony in the region. Even if Japan admitted guilt for WW 2 and its imperial past... even if Japan abased themselves before Asia and paid reparations... Japan will still be seen as the mean wolverine in the corner that must be guarded against.

I think one of my friend reply suit this.
"Let see what you say, when they come over and rape, pillage and loot your cities and women."

However, more importantly, the real crux of the matter lies in the belief that Japan militarism has not died out. From education texts to the honouring of war criminals to the glorification of certain actions(like, say, the Finance minister threatening to commit sucide if the US forces a interest appreciation of 20% during 1989), many people don't believe that militarism has died out totally.

Yet the US and much of the West seems to treat Japan as the doorway to Asia... if the US has difficulty communicating with an Asian government, we ask Japan if they can help smooth things over. Is this a diplomatic blunder, or do people realize that we are just not aware of these things? To the US, Japan is a de-fanged tiger that, if anything, does not do enough to shore up its own defense. But if JApan were to build a single aircraft carrier, the Chinese would probably bomb it and the rest of Asia, despite their differences, would stand united behind this action.

What is the best course for Asia, Japan, and the West in this awkward, three-way standoff? Any insight?

That's not a problem at all. Japan still remains one of the most influential nations in the region, and nobody objects to her wanting to help out. The problem lies whenever that aid starts to become "military" in nature, such as back in the early 90s, when Japan wanted to send peacekeeping forces out of the nation.

[Sea Skimmer]

Certainly Japan should own up to it's past but It's almost funny that all of those much larger countries would still be so afraid of Japan.

It's a logical fear; Japans massive economic power and technology base would let it build a much more formidable (and more importantly, deployable) military quite quickly. It also can simply use that economic power as a strong leverage over other nations if it wants to. Though there decade long recession probably makes that less of an issue.

[Shroom Man 777]

Hm? I thought Philippines, where I come from, is buddy-buddy with Japan. And most people I know don't really think the Japs are a bunch of blood sucking monsters.

[AniThyng]

it really depends on how much you know or care about the past. i know some people who were honestly shocked when they first heard about the Rape of Nanking because they'd really realised the extent of japan's WWII war crimes,and there are certainly enough people here who don't quite understand why mainland chinese and Koreans are so riled up about japan and WWII

though most of my generation is dimly aware that our grandparents [if you were chinese in malaya in WWII] suffered terribly at the hands of the japanese, on a day to day basis that doesn't affect us at all - i mean, c'mon, i got a ton of anime and play jap playstation games and all that...and i'm pretty sure 70% of my electrical appliances are japanese...

as for china, well, I personally don't see the PRC as a threat to my countries wellbeing and security, american novels about badly stereotyped chinese generals conquering "traditional chinese territories" not withstanding.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

However, more importantly, the real crux of the matter lies in the belief that Japan militarism has not died out. From education texts to the honouring of war criminals to the glorification of certain actions(like, say, the Finance minister threatening to commit sucide if the US forces a interest appreciation of 20% during 1989), many people don't believe that militarism has died out totally.

Question: What does a over-willingness to commit suicide after failure have to do with militarism. Yes, it might be part of Bushido (at least the version of Bushido used in Japan's war years), but I still don't see how that alone means any kind of militarism.

As a more general topic, I know the Chinese really suffered in WWII under the Japanese, but sometimes it gets hard to sympathize with them. Especially when they started linking the recent Soccer Match with their Diaoyutai. Yes, I know fans tend to get heated up for their home team, but this linkage just (in my eyes) makes them look narrow-minded.

I can understand demonstrations at the Japanese Embassy for reparations and even that worthless island. I don't understand linking Soccer Matches with Politics.

As for the PRC being a threat ... I suppose they might be a threat to Taiwan. But that's honestly about it.

[Coyote]

Well, I don't think that there is a big Asia Club so much as there is everyone in the region who is not Japan. I mean, typical Westerners, if asked to identify an immediate threat in Asia, would more likely say North Korea, with "Communist" China as a long-term rival, rather than Japan, but that is not how the locals seem to see it...

[PainRack]

Question: What does a over-willingness to commit suicide after failure have to do with militarism. Yes, it might be part of Bushido (at least the version of Bushido used in Japan's war years), but I still don't see how that alone means any kind of militarism.

The willingness to die for one goals and cause, is linked to the idea of a soldier willingness to die for a nation goals and cause.

As a more general topic, I know the Chinese really suffered in WWII under the Japanese, but sometimes it gets hard to sympathize with them. Especially when they started linking the recent Soccer Match with their Diaoyutai. Yes, I know fans tend to get heated up for their home team, but this linkage just (in my eyes) makes them look narrow-minded.

That's a result of the overtly nationalistic propganda built into schools during the late 80s and 90s. There is a reason why the Internet community has traditionally been the most nationalistic elements of expression. They now have a younger generation, who are extremely nationalistic, to the extent of being xenophobic. These are the same people who would throw shit at a popular actress for modelling a Japanese flag as a dress, and accuse her of being a slut and etc etc.

[SWPIGWANG]

I agree with the notion that not all Asian countries are the same.

I can only speak for myself and the few people I know, but in Taiwan no one I know fears Japan and sees it as a security threat. Being the generation that grew up on 5pm anime (on all 4 national channels...yay) and Final Fantasy, few cares about wars decades ago in an distant and alien land and many would love to learn Japanese and goto Japan. I still remember in high school in Vancouver Canada where a group of Taiwanese immigants that "took up" a new Japanese student into their wings. The only conflict between the countries I can remember in my time there is some extremely obscure nationalist dick waving over uninhabited islands.

From what I know of the last two generations, there are some that dislike some aspects Japan but the sentiment is not really that strong. The mainland chinese I know are usually more anti-Japanese though.

[Sea Skimmer]

That's a result of the overtly nationalistic propganda built into schools during the late 80s and 90s. There is a reason why the Internet community has traditionally been the most nationalistic elements of expression. They now have a younger generation, who are extremely nationalistic, to the extent of being xenophobic. These are the same people who would throw shit at a popular actress for modelling a Japanese flag as a dress, and accuse her of being a slut and etc etc.

They also proclaim photoshopped pictures of the Eurofighter to be the ultimate air weapon on earth, capabul only of being built by China.

[SWPIGWANG]

As for PRC, the Taiwanese have very good reason to be afraid of them.

My dad is talking about them blowing up Taiwanese nuclear reactors and making Taiwan a radioactive wasteland day in and day out. In anycase, the biggest reason why Taiwan does not declare independence is probably because of the fear of an war.

I feel that I should point out the Taiwanese education system. In the years during KMT rule (which is up to 2000 I believe) the standard Taiwanese Geology teaches pre-1948 Chinese boarders, political divisions and all that. History of the era is of course focused on the evils of the communists while evading the corruption and inefficiency of the KMT completely. Though all those text probably have been changed in the last few years to be more taiwan focused though.

[Drooling Iguana]

Certainly Japan should own up to it's past but It's almost funny that all of those much larger countries would still be so afraid of Japan.

They fear Japan's vast arsenal of giant robots and nuclear monsters.

And ninjas.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

The willingness to die for one goals and cause, is linked to the idea of a soldier willingness to die for a nation goals and cause.

Still not a very good link to me.

[PainRack]

The willingness to die for one goals and cause, is linked to the idea of a soldier willingness to die for a nation goals and cause.

Still not a very good link to me.

Try and remember that Hara-kiri, is not die because you fail. It means the willingness to die, to achieve your goals. Generals committed sucide not because they failed, they died because they were unable to win WWII.

[Lilith]

It seems to me that one can appreciate, like, and maybe even obsess about Japanese popular culture and not like Japan's politics. Much the same way that American popular cultural is wildly popular throughout the world but US policies are deplored by many.

Japan is the major economic power in Asia but remember that formal diplomatic with Japan did not occur until 1972/3 for the PRC and 1989 or 1990 for South Korea. There is still intense and deap resentment over what happened during and since WWII but it also goes back to the 19th century--much the way that resentment over Germany's historical aggression in Europe goes back to mid-19th century.

Japan has since WWII looked more to the rest of the world than to Asia. This of course provided Japan with enormous benefits but Japan has not worked at establishing a closer relationship with its neighbors. Again, this does not mean that Japan is excluded from economic and political events or decisions or that there is no cooperation but that the relationship is far more strained than it should be.

Much of this has to do with Japan's refusal to ackowledge the atrocities of WWII. The Pan-Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere benefitted Japan but it devastated mainland Asia. It was not just what happened in Nanjing but the millions and millions who died during the Pacific war of 1931 to 1945. The difference with Germany after WWII was that Germany was forced officially to recognize the atrocities it committed.

In Asia, despite the fact that the US occupied Japan, growing popularity of communism in Vietnam, Korea, and the 1949 Chinese Revolution made Japan the ideal US base for fighting the spread of communism. Forcing Japan to reconcile with the neighbors and with its actions was not a concern.

This of course is understandable in the historical context but the consequence today is that Japan maintains very tense relations with Asia. Since the end of the Cold War, Japan has simply expressed vague "regret" for what happened in WWII and the textbooks in Japan have not been fully corrected despite promises and promises.

The tense relations means that many nations, but in particular, Korea and China remain suspicious of Japan. Some in Japan are calling for the revocation of Japan's non-offensive military capabilities--change the constitution. That remains a profound concern for many mainland Asians again precisely because relations remain tense.

Again, these points are different than popular culture. Japanese music, movies, anime, and so on are popular throughout Asia. Korean musicians tour in Japan and vice versa. Chinese buy Japanese products and vice versa. But political tensions remain. Check out some of the major newspapers of these countries over a few weeks or months (there are on-line English versions for many major papers)--especially the editorial pages. That is a better indication of some of the continued political tensions.

[Peregrin Toker]

I thought that Mitsubishi cars were sold with Hyundai badges in South Korea due to anti-Japanese xenophobia in South Korea?

[Lilith]

You're probably right about the cars. Korean car industry came about much later than Japan's. Again, there is mutual trade and investments but political tensions remain.

BTW, My car has a Mitsubishi engine too and it was made by Ford

[Z-Ha-Dum]

Filipinos don't view Japan in the same negative fashion as China and the two Koreas. Japan is both a source of financial aid, which the Philippine government needs, and a source of employment for Philippine overseas workers.

Yet the US and much of the West seems to treat Japan as the doorway to Asia... if the US has difficulty communicating with an Asian government, we ask Japan if they can help smooth things over. Is this a diplomatic blunder, or do people realize that we are just not aware of these things?

Japan isn't a doorway to Asia, but the Japanese government has influence to an extent because of the financial aid it extends to other countries.

In some ways, Ching-ning Chu's book Thick Face, Black Heart is a good introduction to the Asian psyche. A lot of Asians practice Lee Zhong Wu's Thick Black Theory, especially Asian leaders.