GAH! Foolish movie purists...

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-23 06:48pm

Maybe this goes in venting, maybe it doesn't. But it's heavily Star Wars related, so here it goes.

+http://p198.ezboard.com/fthedescentofth ... 21&stop=40]The Descent of the Jedi canon thread[/url]. I posted the new canon policy for them and they attacked me for daring to suggest that it says what it says, that is, that the EU actually counts for something. They accuse me of "ranting" for trying to debate the issue. What is it that makes people deny the printed word of Lucasfilm like this? I never thought I'd see professing Warsies supporting DarkStar's canon position, but there it is...

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-08-23 07:23pm

I've had the same thing, with Trekkies.

You start winning a ST vs SW debate or start having good arguements, and everyone starts taunting you and accusing you of ranting.

Same in Mac vs PC debates.
Or just about any online controversial topic.

You'll get used to it

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-23 07:33pm

Well, I've started to apply my own weak imitation of the Imperial Smackdown, but I'm nowhere near as good at it as some of the people here. (I've gotten out Insider #68 and all the references to the canon status of the ICS books, and they've pulled out that "parallel universe" crap.)

KhyronTheBackstabber · Post by **KhyronTheBackstabber** » 2004-08-23 08:19pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Well, I've started to apply my own weak imitation of the Imperial Smackdown, but I'm nowhere near as good at it as some of the people here. (I've gotten out Insider #68 and all the references to the canon status of the ICS books, and they've pulled out that "parallel universe" crap.)

Every time I've ran in to this "parallel universe" argument I bring up the fact that in the same quote Lucas says that the EU intrudes between the movies, and then later says that the licensed properties continues the saga. I find that usually shuts them up.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-23 08:26pm

As I can't find the quote at the moment, I have demanded that they provide it, in context. Then I shall spring that trap.

KhyronTheBackstabber · Post by **KhyronTheBackstabber** » 2004-08-23 08:39pm

Poe has it on his site, in the sources section.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-08-23 08:48pm

Just link to Poe's page.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-23 08:49pm

*Goes off to Poe's page.* Strangely enough, I've never gotten around to browsing his site.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-08-23 09:41pm

Rogue 9 wrote:*Goes off to Poe's page.* Strangely enough, I've never gotten around to browsing his site.

It's got some good stuff on it. I like the Spock debunking page.

Please keep us (or at least me) posted on how this debate goes.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-23 10:03pm

The link to it's right there in the OP.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2004-08-24 06:31am

I think you'll find that outside of the "versus sub-culture" there are actually people who don't care about canon policy or the EU.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2004-08-24 08:42am

While I consider myself to be a "movie purist" (I think that most of the EU, except for the Thrawn trilogy, is crap), I understand that it's part of the Star Wars canon and continuity. I've noticed that people on more mainstream boards go up the roof when EU is mentioned. People must accept that it's canon as long as it doesn't contradict the movies.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-08-24 10:29am

While this is the only "vs" board I really frequent (or infrequent, as the case may be), I've seen that there is a wide range of opinion in the Star Wars "community" at least the bits I've seen.

Some people love the movies, hate the EU. Some people love the EU, hate the movies. Others don't hate but just "like less." Some like everything Star Wars, no matter how bad. Others think Star Wars "is only for kids/nerds" (why they hang out on Star Wars forums I'll never know, maybe just to troll... anyway). Then there's the OT purists (hate the prequels), etc.

I've even met people who like the prequels, but don't like the old movies.

Finally you get tons of folks who refuse to accept the Special Editions, alongside people who think the SE's are a definate improvement and haven't looked back.

Generally though you run into fans who like some parts of Star Wars, but not all. Who pick and choose what they like.

Since they're not forced to define "what canon" for the "purposes of VS. debate against another Sci Fi franchise" like we expect here, perhaps that's why.

So it's not suprising that "dedicated Warsies" (Star Wars fans) don't take LucasFilm at their word. The forums I hang around with are full of fans who daily will bash Lucas or LucasArts or LucasFilm for something stupid (in their view) but who still call themselves fans. There's nothing hypocritical about that. It's like religion or politics or anything else. Just because you like something doesn't mean you feel it is above all criticism or interpret it the same way as everyone else. Though there are some people who hold to that view ("my ___, right or wrong, my way or the highway...").

Not all fans are so concerned about following rules and making sure it all makes sense and evaluating it by the scientific method. It's just some science fiction entertainment that they like. Some have grown up with it, others have just latched onto it recently because it's fun.

There's nothing wrong with that approach at all.

The "fanboy reaction" you got is annoying, but not unexpected. Edit: Looking at it again, it really wasn't that bad, honestly. It's not like you got brutally flamed either.

It all depends on the community you visit I guess. Some are full of different opinions (the ones I mostly frequent are), others are more "united in opinion" and you "don't dare argue something different" with them. Frankly I'd be bored to be part of such a community. What would we ever talk about? Just pat ourselves on the back for being such great fans and liking the same thing? I suppose...

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-08-24 10:50am

Oh, and we don't direct link to threads on other forums, Rogue.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-24 11:56am

*Salutes.* Yes, Comrade Marshal!

Jessie Stamos · Post by **Jessie Stamos** » 2004-08-24 02:27pm

Mange the Swede wrote:While I consider myself to be a "movie purist" (I think that most of the EU, except for the Thrawn trilogy, is crap), I understand that it's part of the Star Wars canon and continuity. I've noticed that people on more mainstream boards go up the roof when EU is mentioned. People must accept that it's canon as long as it doesn't contradict the movies.

There shouldn't be an issue if it doesn't contradict the movies, but on the other side of that, some people will go out of their way to make things fit that really don't.

Jessie Stamos · Post by **Jessie Stamos** » 2004-08-24 02:29pm

Kurgan wrote:Some people love the EU, hate the movies.

How does that happen?

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-08-24 02:32pm

Jessie Stamos wrote:
Kurgan wrote:Some people love the EU, hate the movies.
How does that happen?

It involves eating a lot of paint chips as a child and being on the TFN Lit boards.

Jessie Stamos · Post by **Jessie Stamos** » 2004-08-24 02:49pm

Ender wrote:It involves eating a lot of paint chips as a child and being on the TFN Lit boards.

So these are the wannabe artist "Star Wars EU is high class literature" types?

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-08-24 02:55pm

Kurgan wrote:
I've even met people who like the prequels, but don't like the old movies.

..

They must have been pulling your leg. Our current understanding neuropsychology shows this to be impossible.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-08-24 07:32pm

It's not really an issue of accepting or rejecting (though that definition rarely comes up except in Vs. debates), but rather with liking or disliking.

For example, one can accept that LucasFilm considers The Glove of Darth Vader and the Ewoks Cartoon to be canon (even if low level canon), even if one hates those things with a passion.

Then again, do we take a person at their word when they say something like "OMG THE ENTIRE NJO SERIES NEVER HAPPENED IT SHOULD BE ERASED FROM EXISTENCE AND THE AUTHORS SHOULD BE SHOT!" ?

; )

And seeing the appeal of the prequels is easy enough. Even without the added bonus of the nostalgia factor for those of us who grew up with Star Wars, there's the fact that the visual effects of the prequels blow the OT away. Plus they're coming out NOW so all the excitement, mystery, etc, is happening to us "for the first time." It's fresh and interesting. These folks see the old fans whining as simply that... crusty old curmudgeons being whistful about the obsolete past that wasn't as good as they said it was anyway. Sarcasm? What's that??

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-08-24 07:49pm

Jessie Stamos wrote:
Ender wrote:It involves eating a lot of paint chips as a child and being on the TFN Lit boards.
So these are the wannabe artist "Star Wars EU is high class literature" types?

Hammer. Nail. Head.

saethar · Post by **saethar** » 2004-08-28 11:41am

Got them to this point...

No way im movin on with that crap even if the OS does state it... its a freaking stupid idea... completely ludicrous...

(OS=Official Site)

This is kinda fun... Yeah I know, I'm sick.

Saethar

Barbatis · Post by **Barbatis** » 2004-08-28 06:46pm

Wow I am impressed with you people. you have combined pshycology and philosphy all into one. While bringing up great points

*Applauds Kurgan for putting up some imprtant facts.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-29 05:20pm

Damn. A whole truckload of me-tooers just busted in and started saying how if that's the official policy then the official policy is stupid and therefore no longer official.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

GAH! Foolish movie purists...

GAH! Foolish movie purists...

ok....