Why the Emperor Isn't a Moron

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2004-08-26 09:57pm

My apologizies if this has already been covered. I searched and didn't find anything.

Obviously the Emperor shouldn't have been on DS II and it wasn't necessary for him to be there in order to trap the rebel fleet, but he did have good reasons (from his perspective) for being there.

1. The Emperor is a Sith Lord. He is heir to an ancient tradition that has fought the Jedi for millenia. They have both risen and fallen into near extinction several times. From a Sith point of view, the most important thing is the final extermination of their ancient enemies, the Jedi.

2. Darth Vader is obviously good at Jedi slaughter, but not particularily reliable in the case of his own son. He has already failed to convert or kill Luke, the last known surviving Jedi. The extermination of the last true threat (from a Sith point of view) to his regime is too important to be left to chance. The Jedi must fall before he destroys the Sith of trains more Jedi.

3. Adding his presence to DS II makes the bait irresistable. The Jedi will be their and Palpatine will be on hand to make sure Vader gets the job done or take charge himself.

4. Protected by a planetary shield generator with a reinforced garrison, an operational DS II, and an Imperial fleet waiting in ambush; the risks to the Emperor are minimal.

5. Obviously, it didn't work out. But the Emperor did have good reasons for doing it.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2004-08-26 10:13pm

Uh huh................

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-08-26 10:21pm

Uh... what is the point of this thread?

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2004-08-26 10:43pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Uh... what is the point of this thread?

To make up silly and nonsensical excuses for why Palpatine was being a dumbass.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2004-08-26 11:01pm

my question is, if luke was meant to be a sithlord, palpy must have been sure vader was plotting a coup.

cmon people. rule of two.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2004-08-26 11:07pm

1. "We will rule the galaxy together as father and son!" Vader may have been only saying that to convert Luke, but the Emperor may believe he was thinking it.

2. Convert him or kill him. Either way the Emperor sees the end of the Jedi.

3. The Emperor was willing to trade Vader from Luke after Luke beat Vader
down and sliced off his (artificial) hand.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-08-26 11:12pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:Uh... what is the point of this thread?
To make up silly and nonsensical excuses for why Palpatine was being a dumbass.

Actually, he is completely right.

The only real threat to Palpatine immortal rule always was and always would be the users of the Light Side; the entire point of the pure military triumph of ANH is that it suceeded in only giving pause to the juggernaught. Luke was not stupid enough to simply pop out of nowhere and give himself to Palpatine. And the risks to Palpatine should have been nonexistant. Not only the aforementioned; but he had fucking precognition.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2004-08-26 11:13pm

as I recall, mara jade notes that vader loses another hand when the emperor finds out about the bespin offer.

return of the jedi states that luke was making the right move, drawing his saber on palpy, but it wasnt the right time. from vader's point of view.

bringing a jedi to the throne room means someone is going to die. vader, palpy, or luke. youd think all of them would have been more prepped.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-08-26 11:20pm

No, Vader lost his "hand" (the meaning of this is debated; see SWTC) after the Death Star blew up.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2004-08-26 11:29pm

he also lost in aotc. . .

iirc, tales from tatooine, mara jade, states he loses his hand there as well.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2004-08-26 11:35pm

I read this clever solution to that in a fanfic years ago...

"Your thoughts are focused on how I will punish you," Palpatine said. Vader stiffened even more. "You think you failed to save my battle station. Perhaps I will cut off your hand...that would be a fitting payment for your failure, don't you think?"

Vader's mind reeled in sudden confusion. He wasn't sure he had heard his Master correctly. Both of his arms and hands were prosthetic, and losing them would only mean that the cybernetic specialists would have to replace them. It was no punishment at all.

The Emperor spoke into the silence to reassure his servant. "I do not blame you for what happened, Lord Vader. If Governor Tarkin had treated the attack with proper seriousness and deployed the Death Star's fighter defenses, that freighter could not have gotten through. I cannot punish him for that, but I can punish others in the command structure. I want them all to hear the rumor that even you were a victim of my wrath. For if you are not safe from my anger...then who is?"

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-08-26 11:38pm

Cool. What was the fanfic, Galvie?

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2004-08-26 11:39pm

A New Enemy by Brendon J. Wahlberg.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2004-08-26 11:40pm

that helps, certainly.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2004-08-26 11:46pm

He's the best SW fanfic writer there is, IMO. You can see all his stuff here.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2004-08-26 11:55pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Actually, he is completely right.

Just seems like a godawful idea on the surface: using yourself as bait for a trap? Ugh! I suppose that your statement does make sense once I think about it.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-08-27 12:33am

I've said a similar thing before, but not in so many words.

I'll repeat it: the Rebellion is immaterial. Why?

1. Would Princess Leia had been rescued without Luke?

No.

2. Would the Death Star have been destroyed without Luke?

No.

Luke was the only factor that prevented the utter annihilation of the Rebellion in one stroke at Yavin.

3. If everything had proceeded as it had at Endor with the sole exception of Luke not being there, would the Rebels have had victory? No. The Emperor and Vader would've undoubtedly escaped and the Rebels would be back where they started.

The Emperor's plans were based around turning Luke to the Dark Side- destroying the Rebel fleet before his very eyes and killing his friends was a means to that end. The Rebellion's defeat was secondary.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-08-27 12:35am

Galvatron wrote:He's the best SW fanfic writer there is, IMO. You can see all his stuff here.

Yeah, I tried posting one of his fanfics with his permission and clearly stating it was not mine, and despite the fact Phongn has done this on multiple occassions, Kuja went apeshit and bit off my head so I stopped.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-08-27 01:50am

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:Actually, he is completely right.
Just seems like a godawful idea on the surface: using yourself as bait for a trap? Ugh! I suppose that your statement does make sense once I think about it.

When one takes into account Palpatine's ego, it makes sense from a certain POV.

saethar · Post by **saethar** » 2004-08-27 04:18am

Imperial Overlord wrote:1. "We will rule the galaxy together as father and son!" Vader may have been only saying that to convert Luke, but the Emperor may believe he was thinking it.

2. Convert him or kill him. Either way the Emperor sees the end of the Jedi.

3. The Emperor was willing to trade Vader from Luke after Luke beat Vader
down and sliced off his (artificial) hand.

I think this is as simple as "old cripple guy" or "hip young guy"
*shrug* I know that I would pick the hip young guy, who has never been fully trained and thus should be easy to turn to the darkside (slaying his father being the act to push him over the "edge").
Basicly the Emperor was having a mid-life crisis and wanted to trade his "wife" in for the hotter, younger "trophey wife"

Saethar

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-08-27 04:20am

JME2 wrote:
Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:Actually, he is completely right.
Just seems like a godawful idea on the surface: using yourself as bait for a trap? Ugh! I suppose that your statement does make sense once I think about it.
When one takes into account Palpatine's ego, it makes sense from a certain POV.

It doesn't change the fact that there is no good reason the Imperials should have had ANY trouble at Endor save for the fact that Palpy, arrogance or no, made some damn stupid decisions. Given the sheer amount of resources in terms of manpower and starships available, the Imperials should have easily been able to crush the Rebels under almost ANY circumstance.

Endor cerrtainly does not negate the other various accomplishments Palpatine has garnered, but at the same time its hard to justify what happened as anything other than dumb-ass choices. (And its not precisely his only fuck up either - the his "death" and the loss of the Eclipse in Dark Empire, his repeated and foolish attempts at turning first Luke then Leia, etc.)

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2004-08-27 09:05am

If the rumors are true, Palpatine will go head to head with two leading Jedi Masters and win. I think this, coupled with apparantly exterminating the entire Jedi Order + wooing what could be the most powerful Jedi ever, will give him a fatal ego boost.

The galaxy is in your hands, you´ve got a powerful bodyguard who killed dozens of his kind, you´ve got an enormous fleet and army, your brand new, all-the-bugs-fixed, super-weapon is nearing construction... Come on, you´d be a bit cocky too.

Besides, he´s lived a long and fulfilling life, what else is there left to do anyway? Play Dark Side-Bingo? Go to the umpteenth propaganda-laden theatre play? Jeez, you people don´t know what it´s like to be a Galaxy-spanning dictator?

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2004-08-27 11:59am

Wasn't it his goal to turn everyone in the galaxy into Sith drones or somesuch?

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2004-08-27 12:13pm

I think ROJ clearly shows Palpatine's personality problems (sadism, gloating, megalomania) in their full glory. Power corrupts and how do you get more corrupt and arrogant than a Sith Lord who is the ruler of the galaxy?

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2004-08-27 12:14pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Yeah, I tried posting one of his fanfics with his permission and clearly stating it was not mine, and despite the fact Phongn has done this on multiple occassions, Kuja went apeshit and bit off my head so I stopped.

That's strange, though the only stories I recall posting in full were Marina's DIG-universe ones. Most of the others were links.