STGOD 4 OOC Thread (part 2)

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-08-26 10:25pm

Actually, I'm sort of shocked. The Dracs weren't in any position to dictate termsl the Tortugans would have been fine to just say "Pay reparations and get out." No one would have messed.

In fact, on third thought, the treaty accepted is too harsh on the Tortugans (Why would they allow their fleet to be dissasembled?)

It's Marcao's call, though.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-26 10:27pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:Marcao?

I take it you're retconning away my offer of ships for the Tortugans?
And the base, and all that jazz.
Are you Marcao? No? Then let him answer himself.

No I'm not, but your offer was made after the first treaty was rejected. This time around, after the retconning, the first treaty was accepted, so you'd have no reason to make the offer in the first place. It's only common sense.

Thirdfain: Because they were losing soldiers at an incredible rate and couldn't afford to wait on you guys to bail them out?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-08-26 10:27pm

I do have to agree with that. The Tortugans have got a large coalition backing them and I don't think they'd be so willing to let the Draconis off so easy.

The fact that the Draconis need to negotiate should tell them they've got a good hand.

Marcao · Post by **Marcao** » 2004-08-26 10:28pm

Stormbringer wrote:Marcao?

I take it you're retconning away my offer of ships for the Tortugans?

I am terribly sorry Stormbringer, but I think I may be. I am taking control of the Tortugans directly before the treaty posts by Straha and Aly. I have not caught on to the STGOD 100% yet so if your offer was before that point, you and I will have to play the offer out and see where it leads. If the offer was after that point, it is retconned and sadly, does not "exist" at current. However, you are perfectly within your rights to make the same offer again and I will gladly rp with you and see where it leads. Allan Westry is at the moment, trying to figure out how the hell he will safeguard the tortugan system without a fleet, and weighing his options.

Captain tycho · Post by **Captain tycho** » 2004-08-26 10:29pm

For anyone who is wondering, Arkantos is a minor former Manticoran colony that rebelled against the royal family during the UBT invasion. It has an agrarian economy, and all of its ships are leftovers from the Manticoran garrison there.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-08-26 10:30pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote: And the base, and all that jazz.
Are you Marcao? No? Then let him answer himself.
No I'm not, but your offer was made after the first treaty was rejected. This time around, after the retconning, the first treaty was accepted, so you'd have no reason to make the offer in the first place. It's only common sense.

I'll let Marcao decide especially since it was to have been made in response to a request for aid that was sent out far earlier than that.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-08-26 10:30pm

I am terribly sorry Stormbringer, but I think I may be. I am taking control of the Tortugans directly before the treaty posts by Straha and Aly. I have not caught on to the STGOD 100% yet so if your offer was before that point, you and I will have to play the offer out and see where it leads. If the offer was after that point, it is retconned and sadly, does not "exist" at current. However, you are perfectly within your rights to make the same offer again and I will gladly rp with you and see where it leads. Allan Westry is at the moment, trying to figure out how the hell he will safeguard the tortugan system without a fleet, and weighing his options.

I'll admit- Straha's conditions were over the top, but the new ones are just as under the top! Now, Tortuga's bargained away it''s defensive fleet. Why wouldn't he just take reparations and tell the Dracs to leave? They sure as fuck aren't gonna press the issue any further...

Westrey shouldn't have to throw away his fleet. Why would he? His terms are too generous for the situation.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-08-26 10:32pm

Marcao wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:Marcao?

I take it you're retconning away my offer of ships for the Tortugans?
I am terribly sorry Stormbringer, but I think I may be. I am taking control of the Tortugans directly before the treaty posts by Straha and Aly. I have not caught on to the STGOD 100% yet so if your offer was before that point, you and I will have to play the offer out and see where it leads. If the offer was after that point, it is retconned and sadly, does not "exist" at current. However, you are perfectly within your rights to make the same offer again and I will gladly rp with you and see where it leads. Allan Westry is at the moment, trying to figure out how the hell he will safeguard the tortugan system without a fleet, and weighing his options.

The actual post was made after but mostly because I wasn't here. And it was supposed to have been made in response to an early request for aid.

If you want I'll be happy to re-offer it if you want.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2004-08-26 10:39pm

Page 145 of the game thread, posted by Pablo in preparation for the assassination.

The Minmatar produced a lager considered superior to most available to those under the Hajr--and though alcohol was not popularly consumed by the workaholic White Floaters, there were still people living on Jormungandr and Hudson who were less disciplined.

While Pablo probably doesn't speak for a Jormungandr company, this post was never challenged for canoninity.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-08-26 10:41pm

Spyder wrote:Page 145 of the game thread, posted by Pablo in preparation for the assassination.

The Minmatar produced a lager considered superior to most available to those under the Hajr--and though alcohol was not popularly consumed by the workaholic White Floaters, there were still people living on Jormungandr and Hudson who were less disciplined.
While Pablo probably doesn't speak for a Jormungandr company, this post was never challenged for canoninity.

Pardon me, but what exactly is it you think should be challanged?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-26 10:43pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Spyder wrote:Page 145 of the game thread, posted by Pablo in preparation for the assassination.

The Minmatar produced a lager considered superior to most available to those under the Hajr--and though alcohol was not popularly consumed by the workaholic White Floaters, there were still people living on Jormungandr and Hudson who were less disciplined.
While Pablo probably doesn't speak for a Jormungandr company, this post was never challenged for canoninity.
Pardon me, but what exactly is it you think should be challanged?

The bit about the company trading in Hudson. Thirdfain says they don't.

Marcao · Post by **Marcao** » 2004-08-26 10:45pm

Stormbringer wrote:
The actual post was made after but mostly because I wasn't here. And it was supposed to have been made in response to an early request for aid.

If you want I'll be happy to re-offer it if you want.

By all means if you want to re-offer it do so. I will get to you ASAP! ^_^

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-26 10:49pm

Captain tycho wrote:For anyone who is wondering, Arkantos is a minor former Manticoran colony that rebelled against the royal family during the UBT invasion. It has an agrarian economy, and all of its ships are leftovers from the Manticoran garrison there.

Manticoran? You're the Rh'lorrans, right?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-08-26 10:49pm

Marcao wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:
The actual post was made after but mostly because I wasn't here. And it was supposed to have been made in response to an early request for aid.

If you want I'll be happy to re-offer it if you want.
By all means if you want to re-offer it do so. I will get to you ASAP! ^_^

It is done.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-08-26 10:50pm

Nothing there explicetly says Helsinki corp works in Hudson. Just because samples of their product wind up on Hudson doesn't mean the company has business there.

Besides, it's my front, I say where it works and where it doesn't.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-08-26 11:08pm

Veitha is too new to the region to have BIC offices, recall that the BIC was formed a whole decade ago by the Hajr's forewards agents. Veitha, the UP, and the Ravenlock are all examples of nations with little or no BIC connections.

Marcao · Post by **Marcao** » 2004-08-26 11:10pm

Thirdfain wrote:Veitha is too new to the region to have BIC offices, recall that the BIC was formed a whole decade ago by the Hajr's forewards agents. Veitha, the UP, and the Ravenlock are all examples of nations with little or no BIC connections.

Ooops! I saw 20 nations and I thought well shit. Can I assume the Veithan Sphere (Manasa, Myheri, Kalderi) are clean too? If not, the post still applies. I did imply that the Empire itself was relatively clean.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-08-26 11:18pm

Rim worlds, especially those towards my entrence area, are generally clean of BIC influence. This has been mentioned before. The locus of BIC power is the Core Systems around Earth, where commerce is heavy enough to allow a lot of little things to slip through.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-08-26 11:19pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
Captain tycho wrote:For anyone who is wondering, Arkantos is a minor former Manticoran colony that rebelled against the royal family during the UBT invasion. It has an agrarian economy, and all of its ships are leftovers from the Manticoran garrison there.
Manticoran? You're the Rh'lorrans, right?

No... he's been Manticore for some time now...

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-26 11:23pm

Straha wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
Captain tycho wrote:For anyone who is wondering, Arkantos is a minor former Manticoran colony that rebelled against the royal family during the UBT invasion. It has an agrarian economy, and all of its ships are leftovers from the Manticoran garrison there.
Manticoran? You're the Rh'lorrans, right?
No... he's been Manticore for some time now...

Oh. Okay. Been a while since he'd posted, wasn't sure.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-08-26 11:24pm

Thirdfain wrote:Rim worlds, especially those towards my entrence area, are generally clean of BIC influence. This has been mentioned before. The locus of BIC power is the Core Systems around Earth, where commerce is heavy enough to allow a lot of little things to slip through.

And of course the Asgard sphere remains free mostly because of massive protectionism and the running off of just about any company they don't like.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-08-26 11:27pm

It was mentioned before, as the Asgard are near the Hudson beachhead, you were not targetted for long-term economic infiltration.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-08-26 11:29pm

Thirdfain wrote:It was mentioned before, as the Asgard are near the Hudson beachhead, you were not targetted for long-term economic infiltration.

I know. Just pointing out that changing that (or slipping spies in for that matter) is not going to be easy. The Asgard are still no less paranoid than before.

Marcao · Post by **Marcao** » 2004-08-26 11:33pm

Alrightie, I feel compelled to give a few thoughts as to why the whole tortugan situation took the turn that it did and to how/why the terms that I am accepting seem to be off.

1. Ultimately, as it was Alyrium that created the world I gave his idea for the ruling style and government style (flawed and all) a bit more credence than most. He did create the tortugans and wether his intentions were good or ill, I gave him a bit of credit for that.

2. I took control of the Tortugan fleet primarily to make sure that it was not destroyed easily or captured as a whole. I then used it in a manner that I felt was consistent with the flavor of the planet and the pirate force bit.

3. Until the interstellar community stepped in, The Tortugans were hosed and I was content with simply bleeding the Draconis as much as possible. With Straha's subtle maneuverings, The Tortugans went from a no-win situation into a situation where they could "win". I thank Straha for his maneuverings, I am...uncertain if I could have come up with the same stratagem.

4. I am aware of the situation embroiling the Tortugan situation, as is Master of Arms Allan Westryn. However, I have taken every step to seperate OOC knowledge with IC knowledge as possible. The Tortugan fleet has been driven off, and yes, the terms which at the moment the tortugans have accepted are harsh. However, with the fleet being a marauding pirate force, I had no suddenly clever and bright ideas to save the fleet without the possibility of losing moral support. This ties in with my willingness to play along with Alyrium's original vision of the world. If I had demanded the return of the fleet, I did not believe that the Dracs would go for it. While I would certainly go for it (OOC speaking) I am not certain that the Masters of Arms would. The damage to the planet is significant, hundreds of thousands of Draconis have died perhaps reaching into the low millions, and thousands of Tortugans have perished. New Tortuga has suddenly been flung into the heart of interstellar politics, and the Masters of Arms is well aware of the long reaching implications of this development.

5. At this moment, the tortugans and the Draconis have suffered quite a bit. The "evil" pirate fleet is not a direct issue, and they can't well come back and liberate the world anytime soon. The Master of Arms knows this, a small revolution of sorts has taken place with the "oppressed masses" taking charge of their future beneath the level headed and passionate executions of their master of arms.

6. I will admit, that I am winging a great deal but I think the deal is relatively equitable. It does have its problems, but I am willing to work through them. The immediate concern right now for the tortugans, is how they will manage to defend themselves from external forces without a fleet, and how they can manage to maintain their independence without joining a power block for protection. Their real state is quite valuable, strategically located and all that jazz.

7. In the end, I am more or less satisfied with the posts so far. If any of you guys have thoughts or concerns, I will happily hear them out. ^_^

Marcao · Post by **Marcao** » 2004-08-26 11:36pm

Thirdfain wrote:Rim worlds, especially those towards my entrence area, are generally clean of BIC influence. This has been mentioned before. The locus of BIC power is the Core Systems around Earth, where commerce is heavy enough to allow a lot of little things to slip through.

meh. I will think on these revelations (sawwy, stuff like that tends to slip through) and see where I will go with the black tower post. ^_^