STGOD 4 OOC Thread (part 2)

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-27 04:35pm

Thirdfain wrote:Oh, and nice metagaming, kids. I hope when you foolks find evidence accusing ME of espionage, you send me letters asking if I did it rather than battlefleets.

Who's metagaming? Look, I'm not going to launch an immediate invasion of anyone for anything short of direct belligerance against myself, an Alliance member, or an innocent independent nation. If you try to conquer Holdfast, I'll have a problem. A vague intel report of possible activity made through third and fourth parties isn't enough to justify a war.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-08-27 05:33pm

No war yet. And the shut down is mostly symbolic I'll agree. However the UP is clearly acting on intelligence gathered in game and not on any OOC remarks. The freezing of BIC was a guesture of support to Nashtar and frankly they don't like forgein extra-govermental corps knocking around anyways.

We still have no clue that the BIC is run by the Hajr, the Whip was accusing the Krell of making everything up wholesell for Hajr cash. Has you can see, her's was the minority view point.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-08-27 05:36pm

Hey, s'all cool. I just hope you can find something which sticks, soon, or your legislatures and your own companies are gonna get a little leery when you keep a bunch of business men locked up without pressing charges...

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-08-27 05:37pm

You just told there was no one to lock up? If there's no one of any rank, we won't waste time.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-08-27 05:39pm

No one worth your time. It's different, of course, in Nashtar. They have some higher-ups.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-08-27 11:36pm

Folks, remember. If you have a highly competitive species... Don't EVER show weakness. You get tore apart by the pack.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-08-27 11:39pm

Autooposting for my goverment officials is not cool straha, I ask that post be expunged. And for the record...

"As you may, or may not, know a treaty has just been officially signed with the Tortugans. What many of you don't know is the, literal, cost of the treaty. What I am about to read to you is from the treaty.
"First is this, 'All immobile equipment or wreckage on Tortuga or in the Tortuga system is property of whoever may find them and claim right of salvage first. The original owner rescinds all rights to said property, unless they retrieve and claim right of salvage.'

right of salvage is standard in all our treaties. It is accepted, and anything we dont have in our ossession is probably destroyed anyway.

"This is another article of the same treaty. 'The Government of the Draconis Republic agrees to pay reparations for all damages done to Tortuga, be they Economic, or Military in nature which was caused by their actions. Value shall be placed on this by a three member third party tribunal picked by the Government of Tortuga. There shall be some limited oversight by Tortugan and Draconis representatives during this process.'

This is not the article in the final version, which marcao will have up tomorrow

and HOW THE FUCK did you know in game that we hired the krell on retainer in case you attacked us? That was a secret agreement. I call you on metagaming.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-08-27 11:43pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote: and HOW THE FUCK did you know in game that we hired the krell on retainer in case you attacked us? That was a secret agreement. I call you on metagaming.

We can take this two ways:

A. The fact that the Krell showed up and were allowed to land means that there's collusion between you and the Krell.

or

B. The senator, being a member of the government, has contacts that informed him of such.

right of salvage is standard in all our treaties. It is accepted, and anything we dont have in our ossession is probably destroyed anyway.

Oooh, you're upset that the senator is using his own brand of yellow journalism. Pity pity pity.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-08-27 11:46pm

The fact is,, you do not have the right to control the actiosn of my high level government officials. Paper pushers, yeah, you can get away with it, but a federal senator, no. Just... no.

Then there is the matter that our deal with the Krell was suppose to be kept in confidence.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-08-27 11:50pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:Then there is the matter that our deal with the Krell was suppose to be kept in confidence.

They entered Tortuga. They hailed you. They landed. I mean even a reporter on the ground can figure this out. And once again your just outright discounting any leaks the Senator may have had.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-08-27 11:52pm

Straha wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:Then there is the matter that our deal with the Krell was suppose to be kept in confidence.
They entered Tortuga. They hailed you. They landed. I mean even a reporter on the ground can figure this out. And once again your just outright discounting any leaks the Senator may have had.

A leak,, yeah, he woud probably know, but he wouldnt spout it all over the place

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-08-27 11:52pm

Forget the In Character actions. Having you auto a higher up of the Aly government defeats the purpose of having players control seperate nations. It is a game killing tactic.

I have sent PMs to both Mods in request for a ruling. I ask that no futher action be taken on this front until then, please.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-08-27 11:55pm

considering the fact that our federal senate is probably second only to the constitutional courts in power...

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-08-27 11:56pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Straha wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:Then there is the matter that our deal with the Krell was suppose to be kept in confidence.
They entered Tortuga. They hailed you. They landed. I mean even a reporter on the ground can figure this out. And once again your just outright discounting any leaks the Senator may have had.
A leak,, yeah, he woud probably know, but he wouldnt spout it all over the place

Why not? He thinks, with evidence given in speach, that the government just screwed up majorly. So he's pointing this out to the people. It's a very libertarian thing to do. The government screws up, he points it out.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-08-27 11:57pm

For the record, the price one pays for a decent, peaceful democratic government is that one has to (gasp!) actually deal with legitimate internal political discourse.

I fully support Straha's actions, and if it goes through with Pablo, I'll be adding to it. This is totally independent of my in-game goals.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-08-27 11:58pm

Even a libertarian government has classified information.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-08-27 11:59pm

Thirdfain wrote:For the record, the price one pays for a decent, peaceful democratic government is that one has to (gasp!) actually deal with legitimate internal political discourse.

I fully support Straha's actions, and if it goes through with Pablo, I'll be adding to it. This is totally independent of my in-game goals.

Hey, if it goes through the mods, you can rest assured that the will be shouted into the ground by other senators, and the people in the audience. seeing as many of the points he brings up are BULLSHIT anyway. Noone is going to get pissed over salvage rights, those are a massive cultural yesyes.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-08-28 12:01am

Quite frankly, when we hear about how the lizards are very competitive and social creatures, altruistic and hating big government, I expect them to therefore act it. Competitive social creatures will leap on a sign of weakness, and the outcome of this war WILL be a sign of weakness on the administration.

Just as I would not object to someone causing a violent overthrow in the Etern if the ruling Clan fucked up, I don't see a problem here. If there are behind-the-screens effects to consider, the author of hte post and the nation's player need to discuss that and edit. But playing with yourself is no fun, and tends to get wankery.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-08-28 12:02am

Even a libertarian government has classified information.

Hiring a squadron of Krell Dreadnoughts isn't the sort of move you can keep quiet.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-08-28 12:03am

frigidmagi wrote:Forget the In Character actions. Having you auto a higher up of the Aly government defeats the purpose of having players control seperate nations. It is a game killing tactic.

Thirdfain controlled a senator on Minmatar, unless I am very mistaken, no one cried. People revolted in the Arcane Empire over voting rights. No one shed a tear. So why should this be any different?

A single senator is, individually, powerless, and would (if he wants to increase political power, prestige, coverage) probably do this once he got the news of what happened. If I were controlling a single man that had signifigant power (I.E. the President, an equivelant speaker of the house, a party boss, etc.) I would agree. But this is no such case. And if there was such a situation with me screwing up that royally I'd let you do the same thing.

Finally, who should controll the massive dissent that's going to well up in the DR if not me? Aly has a MAJOR conflict of interest. These people aren't trying to stay impartial, and no harm is done by someone who is not an ally taking over the dissent. And besides, no one is saying Aly can't deal with the issue via speaches/press statements from other senators, the president, etc.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-08-28 12:08am

Minmater was a special issue, it had been in Thridfain pocket before Spyder decided to play, it has no relation with this and you know it.

Thridfain autoed citizens, questionable to me, but no likey to decide a players moves for him.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-08-28 12:15am

frigidmagi wrote:Minmater was a special issue, it had been in Thridfain pocket before Spyder decided to play, it has no relation with this and you know it.

Thridfain autoed citizens, questionable to me, but no likey to decide a players moves for him.

No fleets moved, no wealth was shifted, one man spoke.

In other words, it's perfectly okay to shrug off any amount of failure in a democratic nation, because you can always play your political opponents as being silent for some reason. Brilliant logic there.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-08-28 12:17am

SirNitram wrote:
frigidmagi wrote:Minmater was a special issue, it had been in Thridfain pocket before Spyder decided to play, it has no relation with this and you know it.

Thridfain autoed citizens, questionable to me, but no likey to decide a players moves for him.
No fleets moved, no wealth was shifted, one man spoke.

In other words, it's perfectly okay to shrug off any amount of failure in a democratic nation, because you can always play your political opponents as being silent for some reason. Brilliant logic there.

No. but it isnt Strahas place to decide it frankly. It is not his nation, he has no idea what the personal motvations of the people are. hell, he even fucked yp on the issue of salvage

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-08-28 12:19am

Alyrium Denryle wrote:No. but it isnt Strahas place to decide it frankly. It is not his nation, he has no idea what the personal motvations of the people are. hell, he even fucked yp on the issue of salvage

Alyrium, I know you are functionally literate. So kindly do me the favor of reading my posts before you spout off on the last bit; I said there should be cooperation.

And whose place IS IT to decide when a democratic nation needs someone speaking against the party fucking things up? Hrm? Oh yea, you're little lizards will gain whatever traits you need.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-08-28 12:19am

hell, he even fucked yp on the issue of salvage

So rather than complain, use it. That senator is laughed out of the chamber, comes up for election next week, and loses. Problem solved.