STGOD 4 OOC Thread (part 2)

[Alyrium Denryle]

hell, he even fucked yp on the issue of salvage

So rather than complain, use it. That senator is laughed out of the chamber, comes up for election next week, and loses. Problem solved.

hehehe

[Straha]

No. but it isnt Strahas place to decide it frankly. It is not his nation, he has no idea what the personal motvations of the people are. hell, he even fucked yp on the issue of salvage

So, it's not my place as another player in the STGOD to act as opposition. I have no idea what the personal motivations of an Altruistic Libertarian pack society are. And the senator cannot spin stories. Golly gee whiz batman! I guess all we can do is let the opposition not speak and everything travel along just the same as before, completley ignoring the last chapter in the STGOD!

[/sarcasm]

[Alyrium Denryle]

No. but it isnt Strahas place to decide it frankly. It is not his nation, he has no idea what the personal motvations of the people are. hell, he even fucked yp on the issue of salvage

So, it's not my place as another player in the STGOD to act as opposition. I have no idea what the personal motivations of an Altruistic Libertarian pack society are. And the senator cannot spin stories. Golly gee whiz batman! I guess all we can do is let the opposition not speak and everything travel along just the same as before, completley ignoring the last chapter in the STGOD!

[/sarcasm]

Look, I will simply call it even, if the mods dont rule in my favor I will take control of your government officials...

[SirNitram]

Since it's apparently encouraged to landgrab NPN's without any kind of reprecussion... The Etern get their swing at the game.

[Thirdfain]

Look, I will simply call it even, if the mods dont rule in my favor I will take control of your government officials...

Perhaps you don't understand. You'd be perfectly in your rights to post a couple of parliament guys lobbying for fixing the environment or saving the whales or yelling at the Princes or something, but they'd get shot down; after all, the current government has brought the people through a brutal invasion, defeated the enemy, and made Monacora the foremost power in Known Space.

your own political mishaps will spawn a LOT more public controversy.

[Straha]

No. but it isnt Strahas place to decide it frankly. It is not his nation, he has no idea what the personal motvations of the people are. hell, he even fucked yp on the issue of salvage

So, it's not my place as another player in the STGOD to act as opposition. I have no idea what the personal motivations of an Altruistic Libertarian pack society are. And the senator cannot spin stories. Golly gee whiz batman! I guess all we can do is let the opposition not speak and everything travel along just the same as before, completley ignoring the last chapter in the STGOD!

[/sarcasm]

Look, I will simply call it even, if the mods dont rule in my favor I will take control of your government officials...

WAIT! WAIT! HOLD ON! From the LAST page!

And if there was such a situation with me screwing up that royally I'd let you do the same thing.

So yeah. I wouldn't have a problem with you controlling members of parliment and jumping on me for *fill-in-the-blank-fiasco-which-I-have-never-committed* as long as you understand that a lot of the parliment (~20% and the Prime Minister) was elected post-Rape, and are blood-thirsty uber-patriotic bastards. And just as long as you don't, say, try and control the Prince, Prime Minister, cabinet officials, I wouldn't care. Got that?

[Thirdfain]

Hey, I would have accepted controvesy in the Council, but now that Elanie's in control, they'r mostly just meat puppets anyways, so I'm a safe ship

Some of my military guys, on the other hand? Remember, Atja is still non-sequestrated, and a nive guy. keep him in mind.

[Thirdfain]

< About your last In-game post>

Come, now, Alyrium. Didn't you just say posting on the topic in-game was suspended? Wait for a ruling before you start posting on it yourself.

[Pablo Sanchez]

My opinion on the matter of the Senator:

The substance of Straha's post is correct--there should be opposition senators castigating Alyrium's government over the treaty and the craven retreat in the face of Monacora. It should, OTOH, be Alyrium's responsibility to RP such obvious and inevitable backlash as part of a democratic society. Not to sound cynical or anything, but the chance of the "democratic" players running their countries in a realistic manner seems rather remote. So far they've been mainly pleased to make spurious claims like "democracies are automatically stronger than dictatorships" and to play the game as if their government never has to worry about election campaigns.

So it's a bit of a difficult point, isn't it? On the one hand, players should be allowed to run their own governments, and on the other it isn't as if we can trust the players to make bad decisions just to stay in character.

My ruling is:
Due to the fact that Straha's post changed no official policy nor contained an out-of-character action by any member of the Draconis Republic, but rather described an inevitable characteristic and result of his governmental organization and recent actions, the post will be allowed to stand as is. As for further posts in this vein, I will judge them on a case-by-case basis.

[Straha]

Now that that's settled, Aly, I really have to question did you miss the point of the speach? It's not against the salvage rights, it's not against the hiring of the Krell. It's whose going for them. Your negotiators said that they couldn't raise taxes. You also, with this knowledge, hired out Mercenaries who you really cannot afford to pay. So unless you play your automators, programmers, etc. as stupid people who miss obvious points in a speach (I don't even have to explain what that entails) you might want to change that. You want ambigious, stunned silence, you can work off of that whenever you want later on.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Now that that's settled, Aly, I really have to question did you miss the point of the speach? It's not against the salvage rights, it's not against the hiring of the Krell. It's whose going for them. Your negotiators said that they couldn't raise taxes. You also, with this knowledge, hired out Mercenaries who you really cannot afford to pay. So unless you play your automators, programmers, etc. as stupid people who miss obvious points in a speach (I don't even have to explain what that entails) you might want to change that. You want ambigious, stunned silence, you can work off of that whenever you want later on.

How do you figure we cant hire a fleet on retainer now? Hell they have been on retainer for at most a couple days, we will be dismissing them shortly, as soon as the final treaty is rattified by the federal and planetary senates. Not that expensive in the broad sceme of things. And, we will be paying less in reparations than the treaty you saw indicates.

[SirNitram]

Much better. Now everyone has something to react to.

[Marcao]

I went over the actions of the senator and I have come to a conclusion similar to those of Pablo. The Senator did not change any policy of the Draconis and did not orchestatre any OOC action. The senator can be dealt with in a myriad of ways, and I am certain that Alyrium will find a way to deal with the situation. My only point to add is that Straha was using an older version of the treaty. The final version has real modifications, some of which are relevant to the Senator's argument. When the finalized version of the treaty is revealed (probably tomorrow, I am pretty damned tired right now) some changes may be something to consider.

[Straha]

Now that that's settled, Aly, I really have to question did you miss the point of the speach? It's not against the salvage rights, it's not against the hiring of the Krell. It's whose going for them. Your negotiators said that they couldn't raise taxes. You also, with this knowledge, hired out Mercenaries who you really cannot afford to pay. So unless you play your automators, programmers, etc. as stupid people who miss obvious points in a speach (I don't even have to explain what that entails) you might want to change that. You want ambigious, stunned silence, you can work off of that whenever you want later on.

How do you figure we cant hire a fleet on retainer now? Hell we will be dismissing them shortly, as soon as the final treaty is rattified by the federal and planetary senates. Not that expensive. And, we will be paying less in reparations than the treaty you saw indicates.

So? The point is that either way you either raise taxes (something you can't do) or you cut your military budget (something so obviously bad I shouldn't have to explain it here.) You have no other options, and considering these are pirates you're paying after you just lost ~1 million men to them, do you really think people are going to be happy about paying them at all?

[Spyder]

Just as a little note. If this was taking place on ASVS I would allow it on the grounds that it's acceptable to have a character that's actually a member of another person's nation as long he doesn't start setting policy. That includes characters that are members of an opposition party. The characters can say what they want as long as they don't breach canoninity but must not take any physical action that would present a conflict of interest with your main power.

[Bugsby]

I am in support of Straha's and Thirdfain's senator posts. They bring of legitimate issues. Aly, if I read your OOB right, your government is very small with limited powers of taxation. So where is the money coming from? I like being paid, but this is something you have to consider in game. Are you going to contract out the debt? That would be fun. "Who wants to pay the government's debt?" would get a lot of bidders. Are you going to raise taxes? That won't go over well with your people, if your society is as you described it. Will you cut funding from other areas? Like your current military budget? Or.... what other programs do you have? National security programs? That's the problem with a minimalist government, every bit of it is necessary.

Tell us where the money for your purchases (reperations and hiring me) is coming from such that no one could have a problem, and I'm sure everyone will shut up and go away. But if there isn't a good answer, you have to address the concerns that Straha and Thirdfain are posting. At least that's how I see it.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I am in support of Straha's and Thirdfain's senator posts. They bring of legitimate issues. Aly, if I read your OOB right, your government is very small with limited powers of taxation. So where is the money coming from? I like being paid, but this is something you have to consider in game. Are you going to contract out the debt? That would be fun. "Who wants to pay the government's debt?" would get a lot of bidders. Are you going to raise taxes? That won't go over well with your people, if your society is as you described it. Will you cut funding from other areas? Like your current military budget? Or.... what other programs do you have? National security programs? That's the problem with a minimalist government, every bit of it is necessary.

Tell us where the money for your purchases (reperations and hiring me) is coming from such that no one could have a problem, and I'm sure everyone will shut up and go away. But if there isn't a good answer, you have to address the concerns that Straha and Thirdfain are posting. At least that's how I see it.

Hiring you came out of the military budget oddly enough. We do have some set aside for that sort of thing.

But, you have been under contract for roughtly 2 days, being hired on retainer as per our aggreement, shouldnt be that large(n the broad scheme of things)

Now, what we CAN do is not raise the FEDERAL tax. But the federal government could issue a yearly bill to the planets(like the US did before the 16th amend) each planet owes X amount and with a planet as well populated as ours, an exta .1% on a sales tax for that year, would probably pass and not cause to many problems(not everything is necessarily at the federal level)

[SirNitram]

You know, wouldn't carving out a section of your military budget for hiring mercenaries reduce the amount of money you can spend on fleets and armies, especially since you are among those of us working with a reduced military?

Also, would a bunch of libertarians really enjoy getting a bill from the government? We already hear, in this country, how 'TAXATION IS SLAVERY'. What sort of riots would start at this?

This whole thing makes my head hurt.

[Alyrium Denryle]

You know, wouldn't carving out a section of your military budget for hiring mercenaries reduce the amount of money you can spend on fleets and armies, especially since you are among those of us working with a reduced military?

Also, would a bunch of libertarians really enjoy getting a bill from the government? We already hear, in this country, how 'TAXATION IS SLAVERY'. What sort of riots would start at this?

This whole thing makes my head hurt.

Actually, back when the US didnt have an income tax, we did the exact same thing.

And the amount set asside anually on hiring mercs is relativly small. And accounted for in the budget, it simply builds up in an interest bearing account until it is needed.

[SirNitram]

You know, wouldn't carving out a section of your military budget for hiring mercenaries reduce the amount of money you can spend on fleets and armies, especially since you are among those of us working with a reduced military?

Also, would a bunch of libertarians really enjoy getting a bill from the government? We already hear, in this country, how 'TAXATION IS SLAVERY'. What sort of riots would start at this?

This whole thing makes my head hurt.

Actually, back when the US didnt have an income tax, we did the exact same thing.

And the amount set asside anually on hiring mercs is relativly small. And accounted for in the budget, it simply builds up in an interest bearing account until it is needed.

So how many ships did you sacrifice to have this in your normal military budget, exactly? Oh yea.. None. You just declared it when you realized people were going to pay attention.

[Rogue 9]

He's already at 2/3rds.

[SirNitram]

He's already at 2/3rds.

That would be my point. I am also at 2/3rds. If, tomorrow, I have enough cash lying around to hire on the Krell without impacting my nation at all, would you not be a little vexed?

[Alyrium Denryle]

He's already at 2/3rds.

That would be my point. I am also at 2/3rds. If, tomorrow, I have enough cash lying around to hire on the Krell without impacting my nation at all, would you not be a little vexed?

Am I hiring the Krell for ctive duty? No. They were hired on retainer, and have been on retainer for two days.

When someone hires a lawyer on retainer, do they pay his full rate? No, they pay a fraction of it per month to remain in contact with him and to make sure he doesnt work for the other guy. we hired the Krell on retainer, to secure their services in case of war. It was a down payment essentially. To keep them from going somewhere else for the contract. It would therefore cost less money than hiring them on active duty.

[Marcao]

Hello everyone!

I am planning on visiting a few friends over the weekend, so my access to the internet may be spotty at best. However, the purpose of this OOC post is my re-reading of the Manticoran annexation posts of Arkanians. I have noticed some bits and pieces that I felt needed to be touched upon.

1. The Arkanians are an ex-colony of the Manticorans, that splintered off 50 or so years ago. That is fine enough. no troubles here.

2. The Arkanians do not possess a massive Tortugan like Navy. no troubles here.

3. The entire annexation took part in two posts, all auto-ed by a single player. That is a bit of a problem, as I am certain it has been already established there are inherent conflict of interests when you directly and forcefully annex a nation and there does not seem to be any sort of work done. Yes, it has happened before the Asgard annexed the PIR in a soloed post and no one complained about it, but what I recall from the Asgard post certainly showed more work than what I am seeing from the Manticorans.

4.

The Unstoppable's impeller wedge flared as it charged towards the destroyer formation, missiles pouring from it in a thick swarm. The destroyers launched out-dated countermissiles that failed to hit even one of the incoming targets, and then the missiles detonated.

This seems like outright bullshit to me. Even 50 year old counter-missiles should not have a 0% hit rate. Furthermore, the idea that a -single- decoy pod could fool dozens of sensor systems of the Arkanians is extremely questionable. The Arkanian navy and defense forces are portrayed as being the equivalent of a hot wheels force, infinately less capable than Amarr or Tortugan forces. That does not sit well with me, unless we are to assume that EVERYTHING in the planet is similarly crap, and that the Manticorans will have to raze everything to the ground and start over with their own tech.

5. The more I read about the invasion of the Arkanians the less I like it, and while I may be off base in some regards I have a hunch that I am not the only one not thrilled about what he/she read. I would like a debate about the entire situation to be brought up on the matter.

[SirNitram]

Hello everyone!

I am planning on visiting a few friends over the weekend, so my access to the internet may be spotty at best. However, the purpose of this OOC post is my re-reading of the Manticoran annexation posts of Arkanians. I have noticed some bits and pieces that I felt needed to be touched upon.

Pretty much exactly what I'm expressing with the absurd expansion scheme of the Etern. I could write posts like that, but there's a house rule about computing and masturbation, IE, don't do it.