Finally, some discussion of Kerry's Senate record.

[Glocksman]

Kerry on Castro votes

John Kerry had just pumped up a huge crowd in downtown West Palm Beach, promising to make the state a battleground for his quest to oust President Bush, when a local television journalist posed the question that any candidate with Florida ambitions should expect:

What will you do about Cuba?

As the presumptive Democratic nominee, Kerry was ready with the bravado appropriate for a challenger who knows that every answer carries magnified importance in the state that put President Bush into office by just 537 votes.

''I'm pretty tough on Castro, because I think he's running one of the last vestiges of a Stalinist secret police government in the world,'' Kerry told WPLG-ABC 10 reporter Michael Putney in an interview to be aired at 11:30 this morning.

Then, reaching back eight years to one of the more significant efforts to toughen sanctions on the communist island, Kerry volunteered: ``And I voted for the Helms-Burton legislation to be tough on companies that deal with him.''

It seemed the correct answer in a year in which Democratic strategists think they can make a play for at least a portion of the important Cuban-American vote -- as they did in 1996 when more than three in 10 backed President Clinton's reelection after he signed the sanctions measure written by Sen. Jesse Helms and Rep. Dan Burton.

There is only one problem: Kerry voted against it.

Asked Friday to explain the discrepancy, Kerry aides said the senator cast one of the 22 nays that day in 1996 because he disagreed with some of the final technical aspects. But, said spokesman David Wade, Kerry supported the legislation in its purer form -- and voted for it months earlier.

The confusion illustrates a persistent problem for Kerry as Republicans exploit his 19-year voting history to paint the Massachusetts senator as a waffler on major foreign-affairs questions such as the Iraq war, Israel's security barrier and intelligence funding.

Cuba policy is particularly treacherous for Kerry because Florida's nearly half-million Cuban-American voters could be pivotal in awarding the state's 27 electoral votes. And Republicans are preparing to unleash a wave of publicity designed to portray Kerry's new toughness as an election-year conversion from a career of liberal positions on Cuba.

Speaking to reporters Saturday after a meeting of senior Florida Republicans about increasing Hispanic turnout this year, Lt. Gov. Toni Jennings predicted that Kerry's voting record on Cuba would ''haunt'' him in the coming months.

OTHER VULNERABILITIES

Kerry will also rue past votes supporting loosened restrictions on travel and cash ''remittances'' that Cubans are allowed to send back to the island, Republicans said. They point to a 2000 Boston Globe interview in which Kerry called a reevaluation of the trade embargo ''way overdue'' and said that the only reason the United States treated Cuba differently from China and Russia was the ``politics of Florida.''

Republicans say they can increase Hispanic voter turnout in Florida from the 2000 levels, when outrage over the Clinton administration's decision to return Elián Gonzalez to his father in Cuba helped Bush crush then-Vice President Al Gore among Cuban Americans.

''Kerry is much softer on Castro than Al Gore was,'' Ken Mehlman, Bush's campaign manager, said in an interview.

Saturday's meeting came as GOP strategists worry about Bush's vulnerability on Cuba after months of criticism from some exile leaders who say Bush has failed to deliver on campaign promises to crack down on Castro.

One recent poll showed that three in four Cuban Americans planned to vote for Bush again -- but that a substantial number are concerned about his handling of Cuba policy.

Democratic strategists hope that such skepticism of Bush gives Kerry a foothold. But they acknowledge that a Democrat with Kerry's record is not likely to score points on Cuba policy among single-issue voters.

Some Cuban Americans, however, may be more flexible if they are equally skeptical of Bush and Kerry on the promise to foster reforms in Cuba. Strategists think they could be convinced by Democratic arguments on domestic matters such as jobs, healthcare and education.

''If they don't believe Bush on Cuba, then they certainly aren't going to believe someone who is new on the scene like Kerry,'' said Democratic pollster Sergio Bendixen, who is advising the centrist New Democrat Network on a new ad campaign targeting Hispanic voters. ``Cuban Americans don't believe anybody on Cuba policy, not Democrats or Republicans.''

Nevertheless, as Kerry fought for his party's nomination and began eyeing a Florida strategy, his language on Cuba morphed.

The first shift was evident in August, when Kerry told NBC's Tim Russert that he was not in favor of lifting sanctions. ''Not now,'' he said. ``No.''

Days later, in an interview with The Herald, Kerry offered a more textured explanation of his position, embracing ''humanitarian'' travel and other exchanges with the island to curb ``the isolation that in my judgment helps Castro.''

HE STRUGGLES

But there are also constant reminders that Kerry struggles with the complexities of Cuba. Asked in the Herald interview last year about sending Elián back to Cuba, Kerry was blunt: ``I didn't agree with that.''

But when he was asked to elaborate, Kerry acknowledged that he agreed the boy should have been with his father.

So what didn't he agree with?

''I didn't like the way they did it. I thought the process was butchered,'' he said.

And when he was asked last week during a town hall meeting in Broward County about immigration policies that allow Cuban migrants to remain if they reach land but do not give the same rights to Haitians and others who travel to Florida, he appeared to grasp for an answer.

First, he said all migrants have a right to make their case for asylum. Then, as if anticipating his weaknesses, Kerry turned the conversation back to the embargo, pledging that he would not support lifting sanctions.

''I haven't resolved what to do,'' he said, seeming to reflect on the full scope of Cuba concerns. ``I'm going to talk to a lot of people in Florida.''

Herald staff writer Lesley Clark and researcher Gay Nemeti contributed to this report

Hell, at least now here are actual issues that are relevant instead of more Vietnam rehashing.

[Iceberg]

Cuba is a fucking annoyance. Most Americans, given the choice, would want to normalize relations with Cuba, because frankly, we want our fucking Cuban cigars.

[Durandal]

Somehow, I just can't see Cuba being a major issue in this election. Maybe because Castro is an old fart, and he's going to kick it pretty soon. Maybe in Florida it might be, but no one else cares. The big issues are the economy and the War on Terror. And Bush has managed to fuck both up.

[18-Till-I-Die]

I have a question that is a bit off topic, but i'd really appreciate it if someone better versed in politics could answer it for me:

Can anyone explain why we constantly have to 'hate' and/or dislike Cuba? I personally see no reason in not treating it like another other neighbor country, like Canada and Mexico...you know, allowing their hazardous waste and immigrants to flood our shores.

But in all seriousness, what is the fucking deal with American politicians and Cuba, and specifically Castro? Communism isnt the most horrible thing on Earth, i could think of five items far, far more horrifying. And Castro is the least dangerous 'dictator' in the world probably, especially since Iran and North Korea are restarting their nuke programs. So whats the deal? Am i missing something other than the communism and 'dictator' thing? Is it really that bad over there, i mean like Nazi Germany bad?

[Glocksman]

It's not as bad as it used to be, but it's still your average Communist dictatorship with secret police, gulags, political prisoners, etc.

There are still an awful lot of Cuban exiles in Florida who despise Castro, and Florida is a battleground state this year.

Personally, I despise him as well and wish the Cubans luck after the old SOB dies.

[Durandal]

It's not as bad as it used to be, but it's still your average Communist dictatorship with secret police, gulags, political prisoners, etc.

There are still an awful lot of Cuban exiles in Florida who despise Castro, and Florida is a battleground state this year.

Personally, I despise him as well and wish the Cubans luck after the old SOB dies.

That's true. But they don't have oil, so naturally we don't give a shit.

[Durandal]

I have a question that is a bit off topic, but i'd really appreciate it if someone better versed in politics could answer it for me:

Can anyone explain why we constantly have to 'hate' and/or dislike Cuba? I personally see no reason in not treating it like another other neighbor country, like Canada and Mexico...you know, allowing their hazardous waste and immigrants to flood our shores.

Probably because they're communists, and their country served as a potential launching platform for nuclear missiles aimed at the US.

But in all seriousness, what is the fucking deal with American politicians and Cuba, and specifically Castro? Communism isnt the most horrible thing on Earth, i could think of five items far, far more horrifying. And Castro is the least dangerous 'dictator' in the world probably, especially since Iran and North Korea are restarting their nuke programs. So whats the deal? Am i missing something other than the communism and 'dictator' thing? Is it really that bad over there, i mean like Nazi Germany bad?

It's a big deal in Florida because a lot of Cubans/Cuban Americans live there. And Cubans who come here tend to be very soar about the shit Castro's done. But outside of that bubble, it's never really struck me as an issue, at least not in any presidential election for the past 20 years.

Seriously, you're not going to hear a journalist outside of Florida really taking Kerry to task about Cuba.

[Joe]

That's true. But they don't have oil, so naturally we don't give a shit.

What the hell are you talking about? What do you think we have sanctions in place to begin with? As an expression of the fact that we don't give a shit about Cuba?

[Durandal]

That's true. But they don't have oil, so naturally we don't give a shit.

What the hell are you talking about? What do you think we have sanctions in place to begin with? As an expression of the fact that we don't give a shit about Cuba?

We had sanctions in place with Iraq, too, genius. Obviously we don't care enough about Cuba to invade them and start nation-building. That was my point.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Followup, a little off topic, sorry:

So their communists. And they have secret police. And? Iran is an extremeist theocracy with growing nuke program, North Korea is run by a militarist psycho with nukes already, i can name numerous African states that are teeming with violence, disease and horrible atrocities. Communism is literally the extreme, bottom-of-the-list, least of our worries, Castro isnt a billionth as bad as Kim Jong-Il and certainly thousands of people in diamond minds having their hands cut off in Africa is worse than a police state.

Seriously if the worst anyone can say about Castro is "He's a communist, and a dictator with secret police" then i say fuck this anti-Cuba bullshit. Honestly, to me it seems retarded. What has he ever, EVER, done? To us? And no the nukes dont count since that was Russia too, i mean when did he last threaten us directly. It's stupid to hold on to these anti-communist hatreds after decades of the Cold War being dead, and i must remind people that, you know, we tried to kill him like a million times. If anything WE have threatened THEM more than they have ever threatened us, except for the genuine threat of the nuclear missile crisis which has long since passed. But since Florida is important, politicians who look hard on Cuba get Cuban exile votes, so there you have it.

Anyway, again i may be wrong and feel free to rip it apart if i am, but i just dont see a logic behind this, not even a faulty logic, it's just silly pandering and saber rattling.

[Stofsk]

It's stupid to hold on to these anti-communist hatreds after decades of the Cold War being dead,

The cold war has been 'over' since the fall of the Soviet Union, which was under 20 years ago. It hasn't been 'decades'.

[18-Till-I-Die]

It's stupid to hold on to these anti-communist hatreds after decades of the Cold War being dead,

The cold war has been 'over' since the fall of the Soviet Union, which was under 20 years ago. It hasn't been 'decades'.

I was mistaken then. Still, the fact remains it's long, long dead. Not just over, DEAD.

[Stofsk]

I was mistaken then. Still, the fact remains it's long, long dead. Not just over, DEAD.

Not quite. While the 'war' may have been won and over, it's legacy remains. (Cuba for example; North Korea is another prominent reminder)

[Elheru Aran]

I was mistaken then. Still, the fact remains it's long, long dead. Not just over, DEAD.

Not quite. While the 'war' may have been won and over, it's legacy remains. (Cuba for example; North Korea is another prominent reminder)

Not to mention mainland China... largest existing Communist nation right now... and which African country was it again? Angola, I believe... (not that that particular shithole really matters though).

[Loner]

This is funny when one cosiders we have relations with China and Vietnam, both of which are commie states.

[Pu-239]

This is funny when one cosiders we have relations with China and Vietnam, both of which are commie states.

A bunch of Vietnamese people in the US aren't happy with US relationship with the Commie Vietnamese government (my parents would belong to this group) and they aren't happy with Kerry's voting record on this either.

Hm... Elfdart hasn't posted in this thread yet.

[Pu-239]

This is funny when one cosiders we have relations with China and Vietnam, both of which are commie states.

A bunch of Vietnamese people in the US aren't happy with US relationship with the Commie Vietnamese government (my parents would belong to this group) and they aren't happy with Kerry's voting record on this either.

Hm... Elfdart hasn't posted in this thread yet.

Then again it could just be Vietnamese Catholics and that annoying Vietnamese radio station which spews out right wing propaganda.

[Keevan_Colton]

Hell, at least now here are actual issues that are relevant instead of more Vietnam rehashing.

I'm sorry, but since when has Cuba actually really been relevant to ANYTHING in the past 30 bloody years let alone this election? It's relevance is even less than that of vietnam to be brutally honest, vietnam is current affairs compared to the last time there was a real point to the cuba shit.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Cuba is a fucking annoyance. Most Americans, given the choice, would want to normalize relations with Cuba, because frankly, we want our fucking Cuban cigars.

Amen.

Fuck Cubans. I want my fucking Havana Cohiba.

[Glocksman]

Hell, at least now here are actual issues that are relevant instead of more Vietnam rehashing.

I'm sorry, but since when has Cuba actually really been relevant to ANYTHING in the past 30 bloody years let alone this election? It's relevance is even less than that of vietnam to be brutally honest, vietnam is current affairs compared to the last time there was a real point to the cuba shit.

It's relevant for several reasons, including the fact that Cuba is a genuine hotbutton issue in a key battleground state, how to deal with Cuba is still the subject of much debate in Congress, and that it deals with Kerry's voting record in the Senate.

In other words, Cuba is still very much a current issue.

Whereas all of the Vietnam rehashing (whether its Kerry's medals or Bush's ANG service) going on is simply character assassination.

[J]

What is it with Cuban cigars anyway? What about their wonderful white sand beaches and resorts?

[Illuminatus Primus]

Ah, by relevance I assumed you meant some real meaning to the U.S.'s future, as opposed to: "a bunch of whiny Cubans manipulate Floridian politics by bitching, so we should give them an ear to cry to."

[Mr Bean]

I tell you we outta oust Castro and put the Family back in charge of that country
j/k

[Glocksman]

Ah, by relevance I assumed you meant some real meaning to the U.S.'s future, as opposed to: "a bunch of whiny Cubans manipulate Floridian politics by bitching, so we should give them an ear to cry to."

You mean the American citizens of Cuban descent in Florida who are exercising their constitutional rights to organize and petition the government for redress of grievances?

As far as whiney people exercising an outsize influence go, I'd nominate AIPAC and all of the rest of the Israel lobby for first prize.

At least the Miami Cubans aren't forcing the US to support policies that put the interests of Israel ahead of the interests of the USA and have directly caused massive harm to the US both in the form of economic damage and in terrorism.

I'd trade the Israeli lobby for the Cubans any day.

[Master of Ossus]

What is it with Cuban cigars anyway? What about their wonderful white sand beaches and resorts?

Those are not too unique, in the Carribean. The only thing that particularly advertises them is that they aren't as crowded because there aren't many Americans vacationing there.