Finally, some discussion of Kerry's Senate record.

[Illuminatus Primus]

[snip]

Nice, strawman and false dilemma in the same post. It perhaps does occur to you I can dislike the Israel cocksuckers and still find the Cubans absurd, right?

And besides, I never said the Cubans did not have the right to bitch and moan like a bunch of idiots; so does every dumbfuck fundie have the right to try and push a constitutional amendment to take rights from them pinko faggots.

The point was their "grievance" is fucking stupid and unnecessarily strangles commerce and normalized relations with our neighbor to the south because the Cubans monopolize my state's politics. They are a special interest group, and I resent it. Am I not allowed to find their "grievance" a fucking farce because they have the constitutional right to bleat it aloud?

[Glocksman]

[snip]

Nice, strawman and false dilemma in the same post. It perhaps does occur to you I can dislike the Israel cocksuckers and still find the Cubans absurd, right?

Nice try at putting words in my mouth.
I never said a word about automatically favoring one if you oppose the other.
The Israel lobby mention was just an example of another small minority group hijacking US policy in their direction, no matter the damage it does to US interests as a whole.

And besides, I never said the Cubans did not have the right to bitch and moan like a bunch of idiots; so does every dumbfuck fundie have the right to try and push a constitutional amendment to take rights from them pinko faggots.

The point was their "grievance" is fucking stupid and unnecessarily strangles commerce and normalized relations with our neighbor to the south because the Cubans monopolize my state's politics. They are a special interest group, and I resent it. Am I not allowed to find their "grievance" a fucking farce because they have the constitutional right to bleat it aloud?

Personally I don't find the Cuban influence to be a 'fucking farce'. I agree with the embargo and US policy towards Cuba by and large. And before anyone accuses me of being hypocritical about Cuba versus China and other Communist states, I opposed normalization of relations with both China (though I was 12 at the time) and Vietnam.

[muse]

What is it with Cuban cigars anyway? What about their wonderful white sand beaches and resorts?

Those are not too unique, in the Carribean. The only thing that particularly advertises them is that they aren't as crowded because there aren't many Americans vacationing there.

Which makes them nice & affordable for poor college students like me.

[18-Till-I-Die]

And besides, I never said the Cubans did not have the right to bitch and moan like a bunch of idiots; so does every dumbfuck fundie have the right to try and push a constitutional amendment to take rights from them pinko faggots.

The point was their "grievance" is fucking stupid and unnecessarily strangles commerce and normalized relations with our neighbor to the south because the Cubans monopolize my state's politics. They are a special interest group, and I resent it. Am I not allowed to find their "grievance" a fucking farce because they have the constitutional right to bleat it aloud?

Personally I don't find the Cuban influence to be a 'fucking farce'. I agree with the embargo and US policy towards Cuba by and large. And before anyone accuses me of being hypocritical about Cuba versus China and other Communist states, I opposed normalization of relations with both China (though I was 12 at the time) and Vietnam.

May i ask why you feel so opposed to it? I'm just honestly curious as to why people still think like this about Cuba, China, etc so long after the Cold War.

[Glocksman]

Personally I don't find the Cuban influence to be a 'fucking farce'. I agree with the embargo and US policy towards Cuba by and large. And before anyone accuses me of being hypocritical about Cuba versus China and other Communist states, I opposed normalization of relations with both China (though I was 12 at the time) and Vietnam.

May i ask why you feel so opposed to it? I'm just honestly curious as to why people still think like this about Cuba, China, etc so long after the Cold War.

Well, I've changed my mind to a degree.

Open trade, but with no government subsidies or loan guarantees.

If private business wants to deal with Castro, fine, but let them shoulder the risks instead of the taxpayers.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Nice try at putting words in my mouth.
I never said a word about automatically favoring one if you oppose the other.
The Israel lobby mention was just an example of another small minority group hijacking US policy in their direction, no matter the damage it does to US interests as a whole.

If it isn't being compared to the Cubans in a "well what about them, why don't you dislike them instead?" fashion, however fallacious, why fucking bring it up?

I'm not a fucking stone; I know that the Israeli lobby is a ridiculous special interest group, it has nothing to do with the Cubans.

Personally I don't find the Cuban influence to be a 'fucking farce'. I agree with the embargo and US policy towards Cuba by and large. And before anyone accuses me of being hypocritical about Cuba versus China and other Communist states, I opposed normalization of relations with both China (though I was 12 at the time) and Vietnam.

Well at least you're consistent. But since normalized relations with totalitarian Communist states has been done in many cases, including some much worse (DPRK), and in others as an eoonomic imperative (China), it is worse than hypocritical to deny that to Cuba with a proven failure to influence the regime or force a betterment of the lot for the Cuban people.

In other words, it is an empty and shallow purely political gimmick which undermines U.S. credibility and consistency, and is counter to our economic and diplomatic interests.

It does no demonstrable good, and we cannot maintain such policies consistently against like nations, so the only proper decision is to normalize relations.