New York Times calls for the end of Electoral College

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New York Times calls for the end of Electoral College

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Yahoo News wrote:NEW YORK (Reuters) - The United States should abolish its electoral college because it creates the possibility that the president will be a candidate who loses the popular vote, the New York Times said on Sunday.

he electoral college "thwarts the will of the majority, distorts presidential campaigning and has the potential to produce a true constitutional crisis," the paper said in an editorial.

In the last presidential election in 2000, Republican George W. Bush won the presidency despite losing the popular vote to Democrat Al Gore (news - web sites) by more than 500,000 votes.

"Most people realized then for the first time that we have a system in which the president is chosen not by the voters themselves, but by 538 electors," the editorial said. "It's a ridiculous setup."

The paper, one of the most respected in the United States, said "there should be a bipartisan movement for direct election of the president."

"The main problem with the electoral college is that it builds into every election the possibility, which has been a reality three times since the Civil War, that the president will be a candidate who lost the popular vote," the editorial said.

It said the system unfairly favored small states, which were awarded a minimum of three electoral votes regardless of how many residents they had.

"The majority does not rule, and every vote is not equal -- those are reasons enough to scrap the system," the Times said.

It cited other factors: "A few swing states take on oversized importance, leading candidates to focus their attention, money and promises on a small slice of the electorate.

"We are hearing far more this year about the issue of storing hazardous waste at Yucca Mountain, an important one for Nevada's 2.2 million residents, than about securing ports against terrorism, a vital concern for 19.2 million New Yorkers."
It's good to hear the NYT talking about was is really in my mind one of the most important issues facing us today. Put simply, Democracy is threatened by the continued existance of the Electoral College and until it is abolished, there will be no such thing as truly equal representation in America.

The Electoral College's benefits were always dubious, but today especially so and its continued existance along with the new wave of more accurate polling means that small groups of people are given enormous amounts of consideration and power merely based on their location. It is my hope that the public will become more aware of the problem (how many people do you suppose even understand the electoral college system?) and push for reform in this area.

Even if they don't, I think the electoral college is inevitably doomed for the simple reason that it is a Constitutional paradox as the article mentions. Although entities in the Judicial Branch have never been faced with on of these before, it is possible to imagine a scenario where the electoral college is ruled to be unconstitutional despite actually being a part of the Constituition because it is an internal paradox that is not supported by the rest of the document.
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*Waits for the states' rights psychos to scream about how this would take power from the states so I can slap them down.*
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HAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

*gasp*

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

Sorry, I needed to do that.
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Re: New York Times calls for the end of Electoral College

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The Kernel wrote: It's good to hear the NYT talking about was is really in my mind one of the most important issues facing us today. Put simply, Democracy is threatened by the continued existance of the Electoral College and until it is abolished, there will be no such thing as truly equal representation in America.

The Electoral College's benefits were always dubious, but today especially so and its continued existance along with the new wave of more accurate polling means that small groups of people are given enormous amounts of consideration and power merely based on their location. It is my hope that the public will become more aware of the problem (how many people do you suppose even understand the electoral college system?) and push for reform in this area.

Even if they don't, I think the electoral college is inevitably doomed for the simple reason that it is a Constitutional paradox as the article mentions. Although entities in the Judicial Branch have never been faced with on of these before, it is possible to imagine a scenario where the electoral college is ruled to be unconstitutional despite actually being a part of the Constituition because it is an internal paradox that is not supported by the rest of the document.
What would probably be best in the short term is to change things so there are no more "winner take all" states. Although, now that I think about it I don't know how that would be much different than a direct vote.
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Post by MKSheppard »

Their brains have been fried; it will never happen. Ever. At. All. Shows
how out of touch with reality the Times has become as of lately.
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

Tsyroc :
It wouldnt really, it's be basically a direct vote with an averaging error and slight unbalancing thrown in....along with some extra paperwork and complication....basically, mindless shite. :wink:
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Post by DPDarkPrimus »

In the other two elections in which the popular candidate lost, the popular vote in the Southern states was incredibly lopsided in favor of the losing candidate.

The Electoral College, while not perfect, prevents regional biases from misrepresenting the entire country.
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Post by The Kernel »

DPDarkPrimus wrote:In the other two elections in which the popular candidate lost, the popular vote in the Southern states was incredibly lopsided in favor of the losing candidate.

The Electoral College, while not perfect, prevents regional biases from misrepresenting the entire country.
Who the fuck cares about regional bias? This is a fucking nation not a collection of nation-states and so called "regional bias" is not a compelling reason to elevate the worth of certain people's votes over others.
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Post by Talon Karrde »

Actually, I'd say it prevents mob rule more than anything.
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

Talon Karrde wrote:Actually, I'd say it prevents mob rule more than anything.
A system where you can potentially win with around 1/4 of the vote against a single opponent with all the rest of the vote prevents mob rule? I'd say it's more fucking retarded than anything else.
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Post by Rogue 9 »

The Kernel wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:In the other two elections in which the popular candidate lost, the popular vote in the Southern states was incredibly lopsided in favor of the losing candidate.

The Electoral College, while not perfect, prevents regional biases from misrepresenting the entire country.
Who the fuck cares about regional bias? This is a fucking nation not a collection of nation-states and so called "regional bias" is not a compelling reason to elevate the worth of certain people's votes over others.
Well see, I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure one of those elections was the election of 1860...
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Post by Joe »

A system where you can potentially win with around 1/4 of the vote against a single opponent with all the rest of the vote prevents mob rule? I'd say it's more fucking retarded than anything else.
You can't win the EC with only 25 percent of the vote.
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Post by Master of Ossus »

Joe wrote:
A system where you can potentially win with around 1/4 of the vote against a single opponent with all the rest of the vote prevents mob rule? I'd say it's more fucking retarded than anything else.
You can't win the EC with only 25 percent of the vote.
I suppose it might be theoretically possible, if only one or two people in the entire states of CA and NY voted while almost everyone in less populace states did. However, you are correct that it is practically completely unfeasible.
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

Joe wrote:You can't win the EC with only 25 percent of the vote.
I dont mean in an individual state, I mean across the nation...the popular vote. 3/4's of the people can vote for someone else, but if the right 1/4 vote for you, you still win. Really really good system that....
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Post by DPDarkPrimus »

The Kernel wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:In the other two elections in which the popular candidate lost, the popular vote in the Southern states was incredibly lopsided in favor of the losing candidate.

The Electoral College, while not perfect, prevents regional biases from misrepresenting the entire country.
Who the fuck cares about regional bias? This is a fucking nation not a collection of nation-states and so called "regional bias" is not a compelling reason to elevate the worth of certain people's votes over others.
Ah, so, a candidate running on a ticket to, say, keep slavery wouldn't have a regional bias at all, back in the 1850s? :roll:
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Post by Talon Karrde »

The EC is neccessary mainly because without it, one region could completely control who becomes president, and that would alienate the other part of the country, or even metropolitan areas over rural areas. This would open up the door for certain states to attempt to leave the Union.
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Post by Joe »

I dont mean in an individual state, I mean across the nation...the popular vote. 3/4's of the people can vote for someone else, but if the right 1/4 vote for you, you still win. Really really good system that....
No, it can't. Your scenario can occur only in fantasy.
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Post by Rogue 9 »

Talon Karrde wrote:The EC is neccessary mainly because without it, one region could completely control who becomes president, and that would alienate the other part of the country, or even metropolitan areas over rural areas. This would open up the door for certain states to attempt to leave the Union.
Much as I hate to disagree with someone who's so against secession, that's a bit of a slippery slope.
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Post by DPDarkPrimus »

Talon Karrde wrote:The EC is neccessary mainly because without it, one region could completely control who becomes president, and that would alienate the other part of the country, or even metropolitan areas over rural areas. This would open up the door for certain states to attempt to leave the Union.
Ironically, it was due to the Electoral College that those soon-to-be Confederate States couldn't get their favored candidate.
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Post by Talon Karrde »

Rogue 9 wrote:
Talon Karrde wrote:The EC is neccessary mainly because without it, one region could completely control who becomes president, and that would alienate the other part of the country, or even metropolitan areas over rural areas. This would open up the door for certain states to attempt to leave the Union.
Much as I hate to disagree with someone who's so against secession, that's a bit of a slippery slope.
You really think so? I mean, isn't that the idea?
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Post by Rogue 9 »

Talon Karrde wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
Talon Karrde wrote:The EC is neccessary mainly because without it, one region could completely control who becomes president, and that would alienate the other part of the country, or even metropolitan areas over rural areas. This would open up the door for certain states to attempt to leave the Union.
Much as I hate to disagree with someone who's so against secession, that's a bit of a slippery slope.
You really think so? I mean, isn't that the idea?
Erm... What? No, secession is illegal no matter what they do to the electoral college. See Texas vs. White.
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

Joe wrote:
I dont mean in an individual state, I mean across the nation...the popular vote. 3/4's of the people can vote for someone else, but if the right 1/4 vote for you, you still win. Really really good system that....
No, it can't. Your scenario can occur only in fantasy.
Much like the bullshit total disenfranchisment of voters that's touted as a reason to keep this stupid shit. The "one region dictating the president" is what you have! The region happens to be the swing states....:roll: the winner is dictated by who appeals most to these few areas not who appeals most to the american people as a whole. My scenario is extreme, but it's supposed to be absurd...it shows how fucking absurd the system is.
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Post by Gil Hamilton »

I'm kind of in the air about the Electoral College. I suppose it's necessary, but I really don't like how it's biased against Pennsylvania. Why the hell should smaller states with tinier populations their electors worth more than my states electors? That's not right. Pennsylvania is worth every bit as much as anywhere, so our population should have just as much voice as anywhere.
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Post by Talon Karrde »

Rogue 9 wrote:
Talon Karrde wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote: Much as I hate to disagree with someone who's so against secession, that's a bit of a slippery slope.
You really think so? I mean, isn't that the idea?
Erm... What? No, secession is illegal no matter what they do to the electoral college. See Texas vs. White.
Perhaps I phrased that wrong. I didn't mean it would be basis to legally leave the union, but it alleviates an excuse to leave.
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

Talon Karrde wrote:Perhaps I phrased that wrong. I didn't mean it would be basis to legally leave the union, but it alleviates an excuse to leave.
And a strict dress code for women helps alleviate reasons for rape, but it's an ass-backwards way of thinking... :roll:
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