I wonder if shes' still Undecided?Charleston DailyMail wrote:Two students not allowed at Bush rally; man removed, let back in
One woman is Kerry supporter, the other was undecided, they say
Monday August 30, 2004
WHEELING -- Two college students, one of whom is an undecided voter, said they were denied access to President Bush's campaign rally, and campaign workers briefly removed a math professor known to support Bush's challenger.
The incidents on Sunday mark at least the third time that Bush supporters in West Virginia have clashed with those who hold opposing views.
Students Jeff Rogers and Jessica Williams, both 23 and from Wheeling, got tickets for the rally from a friend.
Rogers, who interned with the Ohio County Democratic Party, said he supports Democratic Presidential nominee John Kerry, but Williams was undecided.
The two decided to compare Bush's speech with what they'd heard from Kerry on his July 31 visit to the city.
"I was just there to listen . . . and get a perspective of what he thinks about the issues," Rogers said. "Neither one of us was going to cause any disturbance.
We were just going to respectfully listen, and afterward, process through what we agreed with and disagreed with."
They made it as far as the ticket table. Then a Secret Service agent said he believed Rogers worked for Kerry's advance team, which Rogers denies.
"They said, ‘We're not going to let you in. Nice try, though,' " Rogers said.
Rogers said he was surprised, given publicity surrounding other Bush events.
Last month, Charleston City Council apologized to two protesters arrested for wearing anti-Bush T-shirts at a July 4 rally.
The pair was taken from the event in restraints, but trespassing charges were ultimately dismissed.
Charleston Mayor Danny Jones has repeatedly said local police were acting on orders of the Secret Service.
A story about that incident aired this week on NBC news.
On Aug. 17, the lone heckler at a Hedgesville rally was escorted from the crowd after shouting comments about the war in Iraq.
Glen Hiller, who had obtained a ticket through a client of his employer, was later fired for embarrassing the company and the client.
Mary Diamond, a Bush spokeswoman in West Virginia, referred calls to the main Bush-Cheney press office and the Secret Service. Neither press office immediately returned phone calls.
In a separate incident Sunday, Wheeling professor John Prather was briefly ejected from the rally but then allowed to return.
Prather was removed from a Bush rally in Cambridge, Ohio, on July 31 and came to the Wheeling event to find out whether he had been blacklisted.
He stood quietly in line with no campaign memorabilia, wearing a T-shirt with the phrase, "D is for Democracy."
But once inside, a campaign volunteer found him.
"He asked whether I was a Bush supporter. I said no, and he said, ‘This is a Bush rally. We don't want other people here,' " Prather said.
The volunteer then took his ticket. Outside, the volunteer asked a Secret Service agent where to send protesters.
"The Secret Service person asked me, ‘Are you leaving of your own accord?' " Prather recounted.
"I said, no, and he said, ‘Escort him back in.' "Prather watched the rally without incident.
Diamond blamed Prather's removal on an overzealous campaign worker.
She said she saw Prather at the event. "We're happy to have him there," Diamond said. "Anyone who wants to listen to Bush's message in a way that does not prevent others from also listening is welcome."
Rogers, who hopes to have a career in politics, said it's disturbing to see alternative views stifled. Bush supporters carrying signs were allowed in the Kerry rally, he said.
"I wasn't a big fan of the Bush administration to begin with, but this makes it worse," he said Sunday evening. "They use fear to intimidate people and try to limit any criticism. . . . They take away that essential right of freedom of speech that our whole country was founded on."
A spokeswoman for Kerry said, "Politics is supposed to be an open process. It is not intended to be an exclusive club. This is a really disturbing pattern that keeps happening in West Virginia.
WV Students Not Allowed at Bush Rally
Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital
WV Students Not Allowed at Bush Rally
Yes, Bush was in WV again this weekend. Here's the story:
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Hey now, aren't the Republicans supposed to be a big tent with room for everyone? When an election campaign makes you sign oaths of loyalty it makes for many incidents like this one down the road.
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Question about the article.
In the first incident, a Secret Service agent is the one who removes the person, yet in the second case a Secret Service agent makes the campaign volunteer allow the professor entrance.
Doesn't that pique your interest a little? I thinks it's likely that the story is not completely accurate on who did the removing but it does raise a little red flag in my mind.
In the first incident, a Secret Service agent is the one who removes the person, yet in the second case a Secret Service agent makes the campaign volunteer allow the professor entrance.
Doesn't that pique your interest a little? I thinks it's likely that the story is not completely accurate on who did the removing but it does raise a little red flag in my mind.
The so-called 'Freedom of Speech" zones aren't going to last forever. If Bush gets re-elected, there's a very good chance that further repression and useage of these zones will violently explode -- and Bush will have no one to blame but himself for ordering their creation in the first place (though he'll blame it on terrorists).
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No, they are public events and as such members of the public have a right to be there. At least that's the way things used to be in America before the man who once joked about being a dictator came into the White House.Talon Karrde wrote:For the 50th time, campaign rally's are for campaign supporters.
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Then why do you need a ticket to get in?Patrick Degan wrote:No, they are public events and as such members of the public have a right to be there. At least that's the way things used to be in America before the man who once joked about being a dictator came into the White House.Talon Karrde wrote:For the 50th time, campaign rally's are for campaign supporters.
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Requiring a paid admission does not make a public event nonpublic. Sporting events are public events. Concerts are public events. Both require a paid admission for entrance.Glocksman wrote:Then why do you need a ticket to get in?Patrick Degan wrote:No, they are public events and as such members of the public have a right to be there. At least that's the way things used to be in America before the man who once joked about being a dictator came into the White House.Talon Karrde wrote:For the 50th time, campaign rally's are for campaign supporters.
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So you don't get 50,000 people showing up in a tent big enough for 200. Or some similar mishap that can happen. This would be this thing called common sense, as other public events, such as plays, also sell tickets.Glocksman wrote:Then why do you need a ticket to get in?Patrick Degan wrote:No, they are public events and as such members of the public have a right to be there. At least that's the way things used to be in America before the man who once joked about being a dictator came into the White House.Talon Karrde wrote:For the 50th time, campaign rally's are for campaign supporters.
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Funny how someone always screams out that they are being denied their rights with stuff like this... Sure, this wasn't the best thing they could do, but I'd also like to know *why* they were denied from entering the area. Were they screening everyone who came in? Surely they did something to be kicked out.
I'm just curious as to where the media and public uproar was when the protestors at the DNC were caged off in one area.
I'm just curious as to where the media and public uproar was when the protestors at the DNC were caged off in one area.
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Bush gets the benefit of a doubt this far after his litany of First Amendment abuses and treatment of protestors/unsupporters? Hell we have a thread like this every week; people lost their jobs. Excuse me for not forwarding some warm doubt to an asshole like that.Nathan F wrote:Funny how someone always screams out that they are being denied their rights with stuff like this... Sure, this wasn't the best thing they could do, but I'd also like to know *why* they were denied from entering the area. Were they screening everyone who came in? Surely they did something to be kicked out.
Maybe because Kerry had not been doing it at every single speech he has been giving for years.Nathan F wrote:I'm just curious as to where the media and public uproar was when the protestors at the DNC were caged off in one area.
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The tickets are free, handed out by the GOP.Iceberg wrote:Requiring a paid admission does not make a public event nonpublic. Sporting events are public events. Concerts are public events. Both require a paid admission for entrance.Glocksman wrote:Then why do you need a ticket to get in?Patrick Degan wrote: No, they are public events and as such members of the public have a right to be there. At least that's the way things used to be in America before the man who once joked about being a dictator came into the White House.
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
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Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
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A Red Herring, to attempt a Golden Mean? Two fallacies in one? In a political thread? No! Impossible!Nathan F wrote:Funny how someone always screams out that they are being denied their rights with stuff like this... Sure, this wasn't the best thing they could do, but I'd also like to know *why* they were denied from entering the area. Were they screening everyone who came in? Surely they did something to be kicked out.
I'm just curious as to where the media and public uproar was when the protestors at the DNC were caged off in one area.
Maybe it's because Kerry did not instigate these caging offs.. The city he was in did.
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Almost everytime I turned on CNN during the days leading to the DNC, they would talk about the cages the city of Boston put the protestors in. I also remember seeing it on the front page of my local newspaper leading up to it.I'm just curious as to where the media and public uproar was when the protestors at the DNC were caged off in one area.
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IIRC the cages werent mandatory(nopt that I support them, they are a travesty) but the GOP has the secret service force people into Free Speech ZOnes while IIRC the DNC merely said "Look, we even created a place for people to protest, but you dont necessarily have to go in there"
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Exactly. They are free, handed out by the GOP to people they WANT to have them. I had an oppurtunity to get tickets to see Cheney in Des Moines a while back, back my information wasn't sent into the secret service in time. But this is exactly the point. They hand the tickets out to who they want to.LadyTevar wrote:The tickets are free, handed out by the GOP.Iceberg wrote:Requiring a paid admission does not make a public event nonpublic. Sporting events are public events. Concerts are public events. Both require a paid admission for entrance.Glocksman wrote: Then why do you need a ticket to get in?
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Which is why, of course, when a Democrat is given a ticket by their Republican representative, they shouldn't be turned away.Talon Karrde wrote: They are free, handed out by the GOP to people they WANT to have them.
Oh wait, they have been.
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Or tey simply hand out tickets.Talon Karrde wrote:Exactly. They are free, handed out by the GOP to people they WANT to have them. I had an oppurtunity to get tickets to see Cheney in Des Moines a while back, back my information wasn't sent into the secret service in time. But this is exactly the point. They hand the tickets out to who they want to.LadyTevar wrote:The tickets are free, handed out by the GOP.Iceberg wrote: Requiring a paid admission does not make a public event nonpublic. Sporting events are public events. Concerts are public events. Both require a paid admission for entrance.
A political rally is a PUBLIC event payed for many times by our tax dollars. And guess what, the SCOTUS has ruled that political parties, due to the nature of the subject matter are NOT private clubs, they legally canot turn people away.
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The point is that attendees of a political rally should not have to be vetted by the fucking Secret Service beforehand! A political rally is a PUBLIC EVENT, not a fucking club meeting, you brain-dead oaf!Talon Karrde wrote:Exactly. They are free, handed out by the GOP to people they WANT to have them. I had an oppurtunity to get tickets to see Cheney in Des Moines a while back, back my information wasn't sent into the secret service in time. But this is exactly the point. They hand the tickets out to who they want to.
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