STGOD 4 OOC Thread (part 2)

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-09-01 02:04am

Alright then. Here goes.

Posted.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-01 08:55am

Duke Nethington took quite an interest in the whole scene. The Etern seemed to be honest enough and just following their own, unique ways. Yet the implied moral superiority of the Nashtar representative was getting to him.
"So, Mr. Brisbane," his cristal-clear voice rang out, "you are denying those people a advancement just out of spite, out of some obscure notion that to further advance themselves they have to wade through endless suffering and death? Because, despite all your enlighted talks, that is what leaving them alone would also entail. Plagues, illnesses, wars. Numerous deaths. I find it sickeing that you would let this happen before you allow the Etern to help people in need."

Dahak, you are such an airhead. DO YOU HONESTLY THINK I'M JUST GOING TO OKAY A HEGEMONY THAT LARGE ON MY DOORSTEP? Yes, this is partly about preventing colonial exploitation, not imposing such a massive OCP on that many people all at once, and all the rest of that, but it's also because I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH A 40 OR SO PLANET NATION NEXT DOOR. If your ambassador doesn't understand the ramifications of this move, he honestly doesn't have any business in the diplomatic corps.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-09-01 09:47am

Rogue 9 wrote:
Duke Nethington took quite an interest in the whole scene. The Etern seemed to be honest enough and just following their own, unique ways. Yet the implied moral superiority of the Nashtar representative was getting to him.
"So, Mr. Brisbane," his cristal-clear voice rang out, "you are denying those people a advancement just out of spite, out of some obscure notion that to further advance themselves they have to wade through endless suffering and death? Because, despite all your enlighted talks, that is what leaving them alone would also entail. Plagues, illnesses, wars. Numerous deaths. I find it sickeing that you would let this happen before you allow the Etern to help people in need."
Dahak, you are such an airhead. DO YOU HONESTLY THINK I'M JUST GOING TO OKAY A HEGEMONY THAT LARGE ON MY DOORSTEP? Yes, this is partly about preventing colonial exploitation, not imposing such a massive OCP on that many people all at once, and all the rest of that, but it's also because I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH A 40 OR SO PLANET NATION NEXT DOOR. If your ambassador doesn't understand the ramifications of this move, he honestly doesn't have any business in the diplomatic corps.

a) you could voice your problems in the game thread, couldn't you? Deal with it in the game thread!
b) He's arrogant, and doesn't very much care for your problems, does he not?
c) And if you honestly believe he's speaking the absolute, complete truth, you're an idiot. It is not the concern of my people if you have a problem with this. In fact, it might be a point to just further irritate you? Or we might come to the conclusion that the Etern would make nice friends and thus we're not obstructing? But you just assume I honestly mean everything I said. Come on, my people couldn't care less about this humanitarian ideals... But we're not handing out news bulletins with it.
Deal with it!

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-01 09:48am

Hey, Rogue, you've got forewards bases of a 41-planet hegemony right on your doorstep already, and these have been developed. Maybe you should worry about the Hajr military bases at Camaro and Ja'Del before you run around bothering a bunch of naked primitives?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-01 10:01am

Thirdfain wrote:Hey, Rogue, you've got forewards bases of a 41-planet hegemony right on your doorstep already, and these have been developed. Maybe you should worry about the Hajr military bases at Camaro and Ja'Del before you run around bothering a bunch of naked primitives?

I'm well aware of my position there, thanks. I also know that that's basically a fait accompli, and any attempt to dislodge you now would wind up with me on the receiving end of a bang bus. I've already got you in front of me; I don't need the Etern at my back.

Dahak: No, I couldn't exactly voice that in the game thread. Think about where they are. You do realize what the result would be if I gave up the charade now and just admitted that I'm interested in stopping the Etern right in front of the Etern ambassador, don't you? Come on, think!

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-09-01 10:03am

Rogue 9 wrote:
Thirdfain wrote:Hey, Rogue, you've got forewards bases of a 41-planet hegemony right on your doorstep already, and these have been developed. Maybe you should worry about the Hajr military bases at Camaro and Ja'Del before you run around bothering a bunch of naked primitives?
Dahak: No, I couldn't exactly voice that in the game thread. Think about where they are. You do realize what the result would be if I gave up the charade now and just admitted that I'm interested in stopping the Etern right in front of the Etern ambassador, don't you? Come on, think!

I do think

And thus, I can happily continue painting your nation as a heartless, fear-mongering, barbaric nation and have fun doing it

And all that with a straight face, of course

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-01 10:09am

Dahak wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
Thirdfain wrote:Hey, Rogue, you've got forewards bases of a 41-planet hegemony right on your doorstep already, and these have been developed. Maybe you should worry about the Hajr military bases at Camaro and Ja'Del before you run around bothering a bunch of naked primitives?
Dahak: No, I couldn't exactly voice that in the game thread. Think about where they are. You do realize what the result would be if I gave up the charade now and just admitted that I'm interested in stopping the Etern right in front of the Etern ambassador, don't you? Come on, think!
I do think

Your little spree of fireballing inside an alcohol-stocked bar in the last D&D game with your own teammates at the epicenter of the spell after your target was already dead suggests otherwise, but I digress.

And thus, I can happily continue painting your nation as a heartless, fear-mongering, barbaric nation and have fun doing it
And all that with a straight face, of course

Well you can go ahead with that straight face, and I can accuse you of massive hypocrisy in the matter because it's true, Mr. I Strip Mine Terran Type Worlds Just Because There's No Defense System In Evidence.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-09-01 10:15am

Rogue 9 wrote:
Dahak wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:Dahak: No, I couldn't exactly voice that in the game thread. Think about where they are. You do realize what the result would be if I gave up the charade now and just admitted that I'm interested in stopping the Etern right in front of the Etern ambassador, don't you? Come on, think!
I do think
Your little spree of fireballing inside an alcohol-stocked bar in the last D&D game with your own teammates at the epicenter of the spell after your target was already dead suggests otherwise, but I digress.

That was fun, yes. My character didn't have any problems with fire, so it was definitely fun to do

And thus, I can happily continue painting your nation as a heartless, fear-mongering, barbaric nation and have fun doing it
And all that with a straight face, of course
Well you can go ahead with that straight face, and I can accuse you of massive hypocrisy in the matter because it's true, Mr. I Strip Mine Terran Type Worlds Just Because There's No Defense System In Evidence.

Ah well, but you see, there was no sentient life present. Or at least on the ones you know about. So you have no argument at all

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-01 10:18am

That was fun, yes. My character didn't have any problems with fire, so it was definitely fun to do

Dude. In case you failed to notice, your target was dead. You hit me and killed the hostage we were supposed to rescue. This is not indicative of thinking.

Ah well, but you see, there was no sentient life present. Or at least on the ones you know about. So you have no argument at all

What do you think this is, a debate in SLAM? I don't have to have one. I just have to make the audience think I have one. That's politics.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-09-01 10:26am

Rogue 9 wrote:
Ah well, but you see, there was no sentient life present. Or at least on the ones you know about. So you have no argument at all
What do you think this is, a debate in SLAM? I don't have to have one. I just have to make the audience think I have one. That's politics.

Your accusations, out of the blue, just because my representative painted you (rightfully) in a bad light is of course not seen by anyone else as a poorly executed riposte.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-01 10:32am

Dahak wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
Ah well, but you see, there was no sentient life present. Or at least on the ones you know about. So you have no argument at all
What do you think this is, a debate in SLAM? I don't have to have one. I just have to make the audience think I have one. That's politics.
Your accusations, out of the blue, just because my representative painted you (rightfully) in a bad light is of course not seen by anyone else as a poorly executed riposte.

Both the rightfulness of said bad light and the quality of my execution of the riposte is up to the aforementioned "anyone else," now isn't it?

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-09-01 10:39am

Thirdfain wrote:Murazor: Isn't your society very closed? I.e., there's little contact with outsiders, and foreigners don't know much about your culture?

My society is extremely closed. There has been very little contact with Outsiders in over fifty years and with the exception of the UP ambassador, no alien from "Outside" has walked over the surface for a long time. I have mentioned some lesser skirmishes witht the CoG so they might have some information (images of the different species, bodies of killed Grabian soldiers...) and perhaps something was left from the initial First Contact that happened just a century ago (right before the Great War).

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-09-01 10:45am

Stormbringer wrote:Murazor, congratulations you've now created an absolute paper-clad. Modular or not you've pretty much sacrificed all your defense to get speed and power. Unless you plan on using them as swarms they aren't going to be that effective because they're going to get killed easily.

The idea is using them in wolf-pack or swarm like attacks, yes. And yes, the Striker design is not the best around, but very short range engagements are those favoured by Confederate military doctrine and the designers didn't consider that the very concept was flawed (almost defenseless frigates vs heavy enemy firepower = dead frigates).

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-01 10:48am

Murazor wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:Murazor, congratulations you've now created an absolute paper-clad. Modular or not you've pretty much sacrificed all your defense to get speed and power. Unless you plan on using them as swarms they aren't going to be that effective because they're going to get killed easily.
The idea is using them in wolf-pack or swarm like attacks, yes. And yes, the Striker design is not the best around, but very short range engagements are those favoured by Confederate military doctrine and the designers didn't consider that the very concept was flawed (almost defenseless frigates vs heavy enemy firepower = dead frigates).

Well, have fun with that.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-09-01 10:50am

Bugsby wrote:Oops, made another post on this whole OS tech thing before I read OOC thread. Let me make my point here, and see what people think. I will edit if there is still a big consensus against me.

The first thing to remember is that I have all of what was formerly Overseer space now. Meaning two things. First, if it looks even slightly Overseer-ish, I can tell. I have experience with these things. Nitram said himself that Overseer tech is pretty distinctive. Second, Shi space is RIGHT BETWEEN the salvage area and my core systems. My ships going back and forth would cut through the Shi back yard (so to speak) routinely when making the transit. So I'm in the right place and I know what to look for. Finally, recall that these are patrol ships, looking for people violating the border. I have had them there since day 1, look for yourself. As such, they are equipped with the big-ass sensor arrays just right for spotting blips of this kind. So my ships are in the right place, with the right tech to find it, and knowing exactly what to look for. And seeing as how I have had many ships going back and forth, the odds that just one of them would spot something aren't that bad. At least that's how I see it.

You say that I can't find it because you are using all the undetectable aspects of Overseer technology. How is that, exactly? All your components, just made Overseer-esque? I don't know about compatibility here. To even come close, you would have to use some Overseer components, considering the timeframe involved here. It's been what, two months since the OS died? *checks history thread* Yeah. It would take a while to adapt that tech sufficiently. And if you want this ALL your stuff, nothing that I can spot as OS tech, that would take a while. You might just be completing analysis of how to make his tech yours, not testing another round of prototypes. Can't have it both ways.

And as to how you got it.... well, you could have gotten it from the planet in your space that I helped you liquidate. Although considering the beating from orbit we gave that place, you would have a tough time finding components not horribly busted up. You could have bought it from Nashtar, as Rogue pointed out. But then again, you could have stolen it from me. Or it could be that machines coming back somehow. My guys don't know. So it is worth investigating. We deal with that part once diplomacy gets into it.

Again, this is just how I see it. If anyone still has a legitimate beef with my posts, call me on it, and I will see about editing. I welcome debate.

P.S. Pablo, you have any thoughts?

Replicator knockoffs are really the only thing I'm actively building. Since we've taken deliberate steps to not allow a returned Overseer any sort of back-door into our constructs, it should logically follow that they wouldn't be easily detectable by the same means used to find Overseer constructs.
And waste all the effort you want to looking for people running your little blockade.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-01 10:52am

I'll be careful to set my targetting lidar to "low," otherwise they might shoot em down beffore my guns get a chance to fire

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-09-01 10:59am

Thirdfain wrote:Murazor, are you a 2/3rd power or a full strengther?

Nobody told me the 2/3rd rule for starters until after posting my OOB, but I didn't push the limits, I think.

I have four not that big core worlds, six fairly developed colony worlds, five completely backwater colonies and some outposts.

About the number of super capital ships, I have 21 (19 now as I have reduced the number of motherships), 60 sub-standard cruisers (10 were recently decomissioned in order to get the materials needed to build the newer and far better Constellations) and 500 frigates that with the exception of the 50 Silent scouts are "modular" and while they can be easily and cheaply refitted for new mission profiles they aren't as efficient as their counterparts dedicated to a single task. They are attempting to correct this with the new models (in spite of the wrong turns like the Striker), but it will be some time until they correct it all. If we add the fact that only super capital ships can open Transpace portals (which seriously limits my fleet movements), I would say that my navy isn't nearly as good as the initial one of the original players.

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-09-01 11:00am

Stormbringer wrote:Well, have fun with that.

That is the idea, isn't it?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-01 11:01am

Murazor wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:Well, have fun with that.
That is the idea, isn't it?

Yeah, well I'd like to inform you that you've got skeet not warships.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-09-01 11:30am

Oh Roguey darling, I think your post is not going to fly.
The solar system in question lies squat in my territory. We observe our territory. So your pissant little ship would've been detected.
Secondly, the system in question is just a incredibly short hop away from my home systems. We like our security. You would have been detected.
Secondly, you would have discovered us, which you haven't, seeing that my nation has only revealed itself to Known speace recently (i.e. the start of this STGOD).
I would rather have you not make up things, and look into the posts ou try to refer to...

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-01 11:32am

Dahak wrote:Oh Roguey darling, I think your post is not going to fly.
The solar system in question lies squat in my territory. We observe our territory. So your pissant little ship would've been detected.
Secondly, the system in question is just a incredibly short hop away from my home systems. We like our security. You would have been detected.
Secondly, you would have discovered us, which you haven't, seeing that my nation has only revealed itself to Known speace recently (i.e. the start of this STGOD).
I would rather have you not make up things, and look into the posts ou try to refer to...

If you're relying solely on remote scans, it might. This is still on a generally Star Trek level. Trying to claim you can determine sentience with out direct observation is just plain BS.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-09-01 11:34am

Stormbringer wrote:
Dahak wrote:Oh Roguey darling, I think your post is not going to fly.
The solar system in question lies squat in my territory. We observe our territory. So your pissant little ship would've been detected.
Secondly, the system in question is just a incredibly short hop away from my home systems. We like our security. You would have been detected.
Secondly, you would have discovered us, which you haven't, seeing that my nation has only revealed itself to Known speace recently (i.e. the start of this STGOD).
I would rather have you not make up things, and look into the posts ou try to refer to...
If you're relying solely on remote scans, it might. This is still on a generally Star Trek level. Trying to claim you can determine sentience with out direct observation is just plain BS.

I can be haughty and lie through my teeth, can't I?

But he can't just make up mission that would not have worked that way just because I stepped on his toes.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-01 11:37am

Dahak wrote:I can be haughty and lie through my teeth, can't I?

Sure, but given that they'll know it the option becomes remarkably less effective.

Dahak wrote:But he can't just make up mission that would not have worked that way just because I stepped on his toes.

Given your isolationism you'd be hard pressed to say that he couldn't have explored it. But I think that's an issue for a mod to determine.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-09-01 11:40am

Stormbringer wrote:
Dahak wrote:I can be haughty and lie through my teeth, can't I?
Sure, but given that they'll know it the option becomes remarkably less effective.

Dahak wrote:But he can't just make up mission that would not have worked that way just because I stepped on his toes.
Given your isolationism you'd be hard pressed to say that he couldn't have explored it. But I think that's an issue for a mod to determine.

Even *if* he had such a survey mission there, the fact that he missed my home systems sitting basically right next to this planet, and NOT spot them would speak volumes about the quality of the surveys in question...

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-09-01 11:42am

Wow, that wasn't even Radim that time...come on guys, I made a post, someone please acknowledge that the Ravenlock representative opened his mouth on the Etern deal, please?