Republicans: We tend to forget 9/11

[Perinquus]

Kerry's record of voting against military spending is hardly confined to a single bill. And its not at all surprising from a man who basically came home from Vietnam and stated that the U.S. military is composed overwhelmingly of war criminals.

Perinquus, show us the exact quote where Kerry said such a thing. I'll give you hint: You'll find it right next to members of the Alabama Guard who will vouch for Bush and say they saw him show up -only in your imagination.

From Kerry's testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, 22 April, 1971 (with emphasis added):

I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command....

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

You can read Kerry's testimony here, and this is not a partisan political site run by Republicans, Bush supporters, or swift boat veterans.

VIETNAM WAR VETERAN JOHN KERRY'S TESTIMONY BEFORE THE SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE, APRIL 22, 1971

You might also find statements where Kerry makes such accusations in a 1971 book of Kerry's called "The New Soldier." If you can find a copy that is. Kerry won't let the book be reprinted because he's trying to distance himself from some of the things he said back then.

[Vympel]

Hardly. A politician with over 20 years experience certainly ought to be experienced enough to have some idea which bills have a serious chance of passing and which don't. This bill had overwhelming support from both parties in congress. Given that fact, it is highly unlikely that any alternate bill, or any amendment to that bill will pass.

And what does that prove? Jack and shit- all I can garner from this paragraph is that you think politicians shouldn't bother putitng in a Nay vote and trying to amend a bill they don't like if it's got X amount of support. What, is the Senate a rubber stamp now and those who disagree should just bend over and take one up the ass without trying for change? To what end?

Anyone with as long a career in the government as Kerry also certainly ought not be surprised at the glacial pace at which needed equipment if procured and disseminated to the troops.

Appeal to tradition- that doesn't mean its justified.

Besides though, there's just something awfully two faced about expressing outrage that the troops don't have something they need, after voting to kill the only bill up for vote that would provide it for them.

Bullshit. He didn't vote to kill anything, he voted to amend it so some roll-back of tax cuts would pay for it. Two-faced my arse.

How about a source for that statement?

Look up his voting record goddamit. In 16 of his 19 years in the Senate, he voted for defense appropriations bills. This is not controversial information - he has voted no to entire defense appropriations bills in 1990, 1995 and 1996. That's it.

No it doesn't. When his amendment didn't pass, he then voted against the bill, which, had the vote gone his way, would have failed to support the troops.

You've got to be fucking kidding- his amendment didn't pass because it didn't have enough support. The very fact that it didn't pass demonstrates that no matter how Kerry would've voted, Bush's original bill would've fucking passed- his vote against was fucking inconsequential, and your hypothetical ("well IF everyone had voted like Kerry") is complete and utter bullshit- if everyone thought like Kerry, his fucking amendment would've passed in the first place and that $87 billion would've still been fucking paid out.

[Vympel]

I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command....

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

We've seen it before, and as I said then: There's nothing in his statement to indicate that he accuses the overwhelming majority of committing atrocities- neither "day-to-day" basis or "full awareness of officers at all levels of command" implies that- frankly, anyone who seeks to argue that the officers didn't know what was going on is lying to himself.

He's speaking specifically of the Winter Soldiers Investigation testimony of 150 men- at no point in his testimony does he cast a net around the entire US military as is implied repeatedly by some; the kind of people who think that Vietnam was some sort of splendid little war ruined by those meanie liberals and atrocities just didn't happen, even when they've been testified to by such people as Colin Powell in his own damn book. And My Lai. And Tiger Force 3. Jesus. I've got a headache.

[Lord Poe]

They really are like fucking robots. Even among the speakers they repeat the same words and phrases, the pundits regurgitate the loads put into their mouths from the Party line and they all sound teh fucking same.

This is no different from the Bush bashers. The same shit, over and over. "He just SAT THERE, as the WTC was attacked!" WTF was he supposed to do? Jump up and pull off his suit yelling SUPERMAAAAN!!!

Fuck no. He was TOLD to stay put. There's no way the Secret Service would let the President on a plane or even leave that building until they had a level of certainty that he could be protected.

But fuck all of this. If I were Kerry, I'd mention my war record too. I'd shove it down Bush's throat every chance I got. I can't wait to see the upcoming Presidential debates.