Should Darth Wong Lay the Imperial Smackdown on New Targets?

[Illuminatus Primus]

Posted from theForce.net:

Syntax:

FTeik:
About Darth Vaders SSD: According to "From SW to Indiana Jones" the ship was intended to be eleven times as long as an ordinary ISD as well, as both ships have the same bridge-towers, what gives us a lenght of 17,6 kilometers.

That's hardly relevant. What is "intended" is not what is actually shown on-screen (I can cite numerous frames from ESB and RotJ), and is not what is shown in other sources, or on TOS.

Also, that source ain't exactly in-universe, and I daresay it isn't canon (unless someone can cite the LFL policy and prove me wrong).

Also, nobody has been able to prove that the bridge towers are actually identical. They LOOK the same, but there is no evidence that they are the same size as eachother. I can cite comparative data (which happens to actually be canon, and in-universe) which is to the contrary.

The opinion that SSDs are 17.6km long is a fan-made assumption with no real data for it, and is contradicted by 100% of all official statements, sources, and canon data. It is false.

Syntax:
Damn straight. Oh, also, Imperator-class ships may or may not exist, and they definately aren't in the films, despite what the SWTC will tell you. Just thought I'd mention that before it got brought up anyway, since we're discussing the SWTC's inability to admit mistakes.

Knight1192:
Take what Saxton says in Tech Commentaries with the largest grain of salt you can. He refuses to believe things could be other than he claims. Personally, he's extremely arrogant.

Syntax:
1. Um, no scene in the films show that. In fact, RotJ and ESB have numerous frames that show this ISN'T the case. Care to account for those? It's called "forced perspective", and is misleading. You are misinterpreting it. In other words, you *can't* believe your own eyes.

2. You somehow think your *FAN* opinion and interpretation is more valid and/or more correct than the explicit declarations of 100% of all canon sources? Hell, LFL itself says you're wrong. Are you going to say that ALL sources, including www.StarWars.com, are in error, and that *your* opinion is somehow correct? That's more than a little arrogant and selfish on your point, don't you think?

All sources say that 17.6 is wrong, and there *is* no evidence for the length of 17.6. Is there a reason why you won't accept it?

Hell, let's say "17.6" was correct at one point in time. LFL has explicitly released numerous "continuity fixes", whereby new data overwrites old data, so no matter what you'd like to believe, the actual length according to LFL is 12.8km in length. Somehow, people think that's debatable. Mainly because they think their fan opinion is somehow "more canonical" than the word of LFL itself.

Valiento:
"The Endor moon had no such gravitic body."

Actually incorrect. Lucas showed in his ewok movies that it a brown gas-giant in the system. Which overwrote the novel saying that planet had disappeared aeons before. This gas giant can be seen in truce at bakura, and many other sources. The only time it wasn't seen is 1-2 sources, which would imply that that whoever wrote those 2 sources were on the moon while the planet was being eclipsed, cloaked, or something(or we just count them as mistakes, on the part of the authors, and lucas changing his mind over time). Infact originally the planet endor wasn't a gas giant, as the script points to some small brown rocky globe as being the planet endor revolves around.

So indeed the planet was there for the death star pieces to fall towards. For the case of the movies, the gas-planet endor would be behind the camera of the scenes in the film.


Secondly, endor has a blackhole several lightyears away from it. While endor is outside of it's evento horizon, so it can't be damaged or hurt by the blackhole, the blackhole effects hyperspace around endor, which took some of the pieces as well.

In another case, most of the debris ended up becoming a debris field orbiting system's sun, IIRC. It was mined for useful material. Something like this happened in the yavin system as well.

Do ignorant/stupid/arrogant Warsies need the Imperial Smackdown (tm) as much as stupid Trekkies? Should there be a small-scale invasion/incursion on theForce.net's Lit Forum? Should any of them be challenged by Mike himself?

What do you think?

[Cpt_Frank]

morons. but they don't need the Imperial smackdown since they actually don't do anything.

[Illuminatus Primus]

The sadest Trek-sounding thing I've now heard is that in conjunction with the Rebel fleet vaporizing debris, setting up orbital shields, and the grand forces setting up more small shields, is that most of the material was swollowed up by a "hyperspace wormhole" somehow generated by the "Endor's Gate" black hole a couple light-years away.

[Alyeska]

All sources EXCEPT canon says that 17.6km is wrong. I guess he missed that.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Anyone who goes insulted Saxton deserves a smackdown.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Valiento:
While, you brought up one issue I don't like about saxton's site, the uniformed trying to cite it as canon.

Other issues I have is his denying the fact that zaarin was a GA.

His ewok holocaust and ignoring of marvel comics and other sources that contradict his speculation, and calling them apocryphal since they contradict his fanfic idea.

There is his lame idea on placement of droids comics, and cartoons even though no error exists.

It also gets on my nerves how he picks and chooses marvel comics depending on if they support his ideas or not.

I will admit though I do look at his site for time to time for the scans of official documenation, that he has built up, so it's convenient for that use.

Valiento (about the ICS):
Treknobabble up the wazoo. It sounds like mr. spocks guide to star wars.

You mean like that?

[Master of Ossus]

Clearly any and all morons deserve an Imperial Smack Down. If they decide to come here, then Mike should attack them. Otherwise, it's really not worth the trouble.

I find the SW:TC to be incredibly accurate. There's a reason why Saxton does not admit many errors on his site: his site is correct in damn near everything. When he cannot draw a conclusion based on the data that he has, he clearly states both possibilities. Further, attacking him because he is arrogant is an ad hominem attack, and the implication that we do not carefully check over Saxton's reasoning while we read it is insulting.

[Guest]

Clearly any and all morons deserve an Imperial Smack Down. If they decide to come here, then Mike should attack them. Otherwise, it's really not worth the trouble.

I would have to agree. I wouldn't necessarily make posts to correct any errors or poor judgements they may have on their boards, however, maybe this would be a good opportunity to start a new thread or page on Wong's site to deal with myths perpetuated by other Star Wars fans. It seems to me it would provide a saftey net for future comments that say "Well, on the Force.net they said <blah blah blah>, and if they said it there, then it must be true!"

[Spartan]

King Cosmos wrote:

I would have to agree. I wouldn't necessarily make posts to correct any errors or poor judgements they may have on their boards, however, maybe this would be a good opportunity to start a new thread or page on Wong's site to deal with myths perpetuated by other Star Wars fans. It seems to me it would provide a saftey net for future comments that say "Well, on the Force.net they said <blah blah blah>, and if they said it there, then it must be true!"

I'll second that motion.

Clearly there miss lead, but there no need for concern. Hell, I can think of a number of people who need the smackdown far more than them. As far as the attacks on Dr. Saxton I seriously doubt any of them a qualified to critize his work. For my money his ICS is worth more than all the previous ICS's and Essential Guides.

[phongn]

Valiento (about the ICS):
Treknobabble up the wazoo. It sounds like mr. spocks guide to star wars.

The only parts that come close to technobabble are on the first page that has a brief outline on technology. The rest is hardly technobabble.

[Iceberg]

Clearly any and all morons deserve an Imperial Smack Down. If they decide to come here, then Mike should attack them. Otherwise, it's really not worth the trouble.

I would have to agree. I wouldn't necessarily make posts to correct any errors or poor judgements they may have on their boards, however, maybe this would be a good opportunity to start a new thread or page on Wong's site to deal with myths perpetuated by other Star Wars fans. It seems to me it would provide a saftey net for future comments that say "Well, on the Force.net they said <blah blah blah>, and if they said it there, then it must be true!"

I just have to say your sig rocks.

"No one can resist the quad laser!"
"It is over now!"

[XaLEv]

I just have to say your sig rocks.

"No one can resist the quad laser!"
"It is over now!"

Great avatar, too.

[Guest]

"No one can resist the quad laser!"
"It is over now!"

Aqua Teen Hunger Force has to be the greatest 15 minutes of television in recent history.


"Shake, how did you get in this beam!?"
"The beam came from space, you don't own space, so stop acting like you do."

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Technobable?


Did KJA make a AOTC ICS: Revised Addition?

[Sea Skimmer]

Not unless they openly attack him here, not worth picking them off on other boards. I want SD.net updated! Not another meg of Wong taking a wood chipper to the balsa wood of Trek arguments.

[Howedar]

What a load of horseshit. I usually wouldn't support the smacking down of newbies, just give them the facts first. This guy though, he's a looney.

[Vympel]

Give us a link to the threads those fuckwits are on ....

[Illuminatus Primus]

Alright, who supports the idea that Mike, Time willing, and not taking time away from his work, family, other hobbies, and the other new page on the Enterprise-D's design fuck-ups, should eventually establish a section devoted to bullshit spread by canon completist fanatics and canon purist fanatics in the face of logic. And in the defense of his site and that of Dr. Saxton's?
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[Guest]

Alright, who supports the idea that Mike, Time willing, and not taking time away from his work, family, other hobbies, and the other new page on the Enterprise-D's design fuck-ups, should eventually establish a section devoted to bullshit spread by canon completist fanatics and canon purist fanatics in the face of logic. And in the defense of his site and that of Dr. Saxton's?
[/url]

I think that would be the next SD.net project after the page dovoted to the engineering flaws in the Galaxy class ship design. All in due time.....
But another good idea, is who else has the expertise to help Mike with his webpage? Those who can craft well reasoned, logical arugments and has a grasp on science? That would be a great idea to have a team to help update SD.net.

[Vympel]

I'd rather he continue updating the canon database personally; the TNG one is excellent and id love to see the same done for DS9 and VOY.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Perhaps we on the forum can finally contribute to easing Mike's work on his site. It is his, of coruse however.

http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp? ... 237&page=1

Enjoy. I'm "Lord_Darth_Bob" if you're curious.

[Vympel]

Made two posts as Vympel.

Idiot ... he thinks he can make an appeal to PHILOSOPHY to disprove SCALING!

[Illuminatus Primus]

I warn you: they'll attack you on the official sources are the word of God even if they're visually bullshit.

You must appeal to the "EU is Canon, but Movies Are Absolute Canon" angle to even stand a chance and avoid getting shut down by the mods or being trampled by the canon maniacs like Valiento or Genghis12.

You'll also need support. Some others are going to need to go assist you from this forum. I never bothered running Saxton's calcs personally, so I won't be much help.

[Vympel]

They think official is canon? What IDIOTS.

[Ender]

TFN isfilled with some of the biggest fucking idiots in the planet. In a number of ways, those people are worse then Darkstar. I say ignore them