Borg vs Firearms

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-09-01 04:13pm

Kurgan wrote: If their replicators can produce a working Tommy Gun, and other working 20th century earth firearms, how far a stretch is it to say they can't start producing them for real?

Replicators have never to my knowledge produced working Tommy guns. Fed holodecks have simulated them. Wether or not replicators can create functional firearms is pretty much undecided.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-09-01 04:21pm

I posted my edit, but not fast enough for your quote to catch it!

I meant holodecs (not "replicators").

Perhaps Holodecs just make bullets fly, rather than creating all the internal workings of a Thompson Submachinegun or other 20th century firearm that we've seen. Perhaps not.

But even if all the records of such firearms have been destroyed over the years, could the federation figure out how to create such a weapon? Gunpowder? Bullets?

Kirk was able to build a rudimentary firearm in a very short time in TOS's "Arena." Sulu collected guns as a hobby and knew how to operate them (and Kirk himself had several in his collection, even if they were just replicas and not "the real thing"). Harnessing the knowledge and records of these collectors and possibly even their collections, the Federation could theoretically replicate (or build, the old fashioned way, which they surely still do) them for use in combat if they so desired. Again, with major policy changes in the Federation...

Then there's the example of the "Federation sniper rifle" of DS9 that apparently fires a physical bullet (aided by a microtransporter). This might be a railgun I suppose, but there's a possibility that it might work like a 20th century firearm to toss the bullet out, and then this would show that the technology still exists in the 24th century, even if rarely used.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-09-01 04:32pm

Kurgan wrote:I posted my edit, but not fast enough for your quote to catch it!
I meant holodecs (not "replicators").

Great. The one time I'm actually reasonably fast in reacting to a post I get dissed for it.

Perhaps Holodecs just make bullets fly, rather than creating all the internal workings of a Thompson Submachinegun or other 20th century firearm that we've seen. Perhaps not.

Hence my saying that their ability to replicate working firearms is undecided.

But even if all the records of such firearms have been destroyed over the years, could the federation figure out how to create such a weapon? Gunpowder? Bullets?

Technologically, almost certainly, and personally I don't see why the Feds should have lost the information. Actual manufacture as opposed to replication I have absolutely no quarrel with.
Hell, I don't even have a quarrel with replication if replicators have been shown to be capable of it. I was merely pointing out that the Tommy example is inconclusive.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-09-01 05:27pm

Batman wrote:
Kurgan wrote:I posted my edit, but not fast enough for your quote to catch it!
I meant holodecs (not "replicators").
Great. The one time I'm actually reasonably fast in reacting to a post I get dissed for it.

Perhaps Holodecs just make bullets fly, rather than creating all the internal workings of a Thompson Submachinegun or other 20th century firearm that we've seen. Perhaps not.
Hence my saying that their ability to replicate working firearms is undecided.
But even if all the records of such firearms have been destroyed over the years, could the federation figure out how to create such a weapon? Gunpowder? Bullets?
Technologically, almost certainly, and personally I don't see why the Feds should have lost the information. Actual manufacture as opposed to replication I have absolutely no quarrel with.
Hell, I don't even have a quarrel with replication if replicators have been shown to be capable of it. I was merely pointing out that the Tommy example is inconclusive.

Hey man, we really have no argument. I'm not dissing you in any way, didn't mean to either (if you thought I was).

I agree with you 100%.

And for Vs. Debates this doesn't do anything either way either. It's like those arguments where they are like "Q would save the Federation from the Empire." And then the Wars side always says "Oh yeah? Just like Q saved the Federation from the Borg and the Dominion, etc."

Just because they have the ability (and we'd want them to if they were smart) doesn't mean they would (in-character). ; )

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-09-01 05:34pm

Kurgan wrote: Hey man, we really have no argument. I'm not dissing you in any way, didn't mean to either (if you thought I was).

Kurgan, just in case the smiley wasn't a dead giveaway, I was kidding.
It's just that I have a history of being a slow poster and the one time I'm not this happens-that was too good an opportunity to pass up.
I know we don't have an actual argument, I was basically nitpicking.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-09-01 05:35pm

Yeah, but you used the "tongue sticking out smiley" so I had to be sure...

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-09-01 05:39pm

Kurgan wrote:Yeah, but you used the "tongue sticking out smiley" so I had to be sure...

I consider

the ultimate of 'I'm kidding' smileys, which is why I used it. If that goes contrary to established BBS behaviour you have my apologies.

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2004-09-01 05:45pm

Batman wrote:
Kurgan wrote: If their replicators can produce a working Tommy Gun, and other working 20th century earth firearms, how far a stretch is it to say they can't start producing them for real?
Replicators have never to my knowledge produced working Tommy guns. Fed holodecks have simulated them. Wether or not replicators can create functional firearms is pretty much undecided.

Actually, it's canon that replicators can produce funcitonal firearms, at least if a Starfleet officer accesses the relevant replication files. For that matter, Romulans can apparently replicate all but perfect copies of Federation phaser rifles (that, or they set up a dedicated conventional factory to produce hundreds, even thousands, of Federation phaser rifles to support a political destabilization op).

DS9, Field of Fire

SISKO Chief, did you ever hear of the TR-one-one-six rifle?

O'BRIEN (nodding) It was a prototype. Developed by Starfleet Security to operate in energy dampening fields or radiogenic environments.

SISKO That's right. Anywhere that a normal phaser would be useless. If I'm not mistaken, the TR-one- one-six fired a chemically propelled tritanium "bullet."

ODO You said it was a prototype -- were they ever mass-produced?

O'BRIEN No, Starfleet abandoned the TR- one-one-six in favor of regenerative phasers.

SISKO That doesn't mean our killer couldn't have gotten hold of the rifle's replication patterns.

O'BRIEN But only Starfleet officers have access to those files.

…

SISKO Bertram didn't kill anyone. (This comes as a shock to Ezri.)

EZRI Then why was the Security Team chasing him?

SISKO Because a month ago, he accessed the Replicator patterns for the TR-one-one-six... without authorization.

JORAN Sounds guilty to me.

EZRI (to Sisko) Why would he replicate a rifle unless he was going to use it?

SISKO He collects weapons. Federation, Klingon, Cardassian...

TNG, The Mind's Eye

GEORDI -- the Romulans.

WIDEN OUT to reveal Picard, Kell, Vagh and his two Klingon guards in the room with Geordi. The phaser rifle is on Vagh's desk.

GEORDI They fashioned a perfect Federation rifle... but they had to charge it from their energy sources. So the discharge crystal and the emission beam pattern correspond to those you'd find in a Romulan disrupter.

Vagh eyes the rifle, lifts his gaze to Picard.

VAGH The Romulans have no interest in Kriosian independence. The planet is too far from their borders.

PICARD But they do have an interest in driving the Federation and the Empire apart. Our alliance is the only thing that keeps them in check.

GEORDI'S POV - ON VAGH (OPTICAL) As the Romulan targeting telemetry focuses on him.

VAGH (musing) Romulan replications... using stolen Federation technology...

KELL It's a typical Romulan ploy...

The POV PANS around to take in Kell as he finishes...

KELL (continuing) ... an attempt to sow dissension and mistrust. Kell turns to face the camera.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-09-01 06:02pm

Batman wrote:
Kurgan wrote:Yeah, but you used the "tongue sticking out smiley" so I had to be sure...

I consider the ultimate of 'I'm kidding' smileys, which is why I used it. If that goes contrary to established BBS behaviour you have my apologies.

Apology accepted... *Darth Vader impression*

All these smileys confuse a poor old fogey like me I guess. Cartoon emoticons are becoming their own subtle language!

PS: Interesting about the replicated rifles. Forgot all about that...

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2004-09-02 06:48am

Batman wrote: Hence my saying that their ability to replicate working firearms is undecided.

In the episode of DS9 season 7 "Field of Fire", a weapon is replicated.

Ignore this. I am too slow.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2004-09-02 05:13pm

The way I see it, the Borg don't use kinetic shielding for one of two reasons:
1) They don't know how
2) They know how, but they have not done so, despite numerous kinetic attacks on their drones. Therefore, they are unable to adapt. At all.

So which is it? Either they can't make KE shields or all the claims that Borg can adapt are false.

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2004-09-02 09:59pm

Why are the Borg stupid?
Because they don't use personal K.E. shielding!
.
.
.
In all seriousness, that is bull. For reasons not up for debate in this thread energy weapons rule the battle field in the 24th century. Borg drones have demonstrated time and again their capability to defend against such attacks. Put another way, Borg drones are nearly impervious to the weaponry of just about any race they engage in battle.
They don't need to spend resources defending themselves from a threat as rare as ranged K.E. What a shock that the Borg, pursuers of efficiency to the exclusion of most other things, don't waste resources on such a useless commodoty

A theory for the operating concept of such a defense has been proposed, but the bottum line is simple:
In a world where guns are rare there is no point in trying to protect yourself from them. Adapt to the times, energy weapons rule, defend against them!

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-09-02 10:04pm

The Silence and I wrote:Why are the Borg stupid?
Because they don't use personal K.E. shielding!
.
.
.
In all seriousness, that is bull. For reasons not up for debate in this thread energy weapons rule the battle field in the 24th century. Borg drones have demonstrated time and again their capability to defend against such attacks. Put another way, Borg drones are nearly impervious to the weaponry of just about any race they engage in battle.
They don't need to spend resources defending themselves from a threat as rare as ranged K.E. What a shock that the Borg, pursuers of efficiency to the exclusion of most other things, don't waste resources on such a useless commodoty
A theory for the operating concept of such a defense has been proposed, but the bottum line is simple:
In a world where guns are rare there is no point in trying to protect yourself from them. Adapt to the times, energy weapons rule, defend against them!

Actually they adapt to only a very specific system.

Note that a Power that did not use a Frequency based system ripped through them like hot butter?

So please...they don't adapt to energy whatsoever, they adapt because the Federation and the other power use a technology that utilizes frequencies...and brute force effects shred through them still.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-09-03 01:43am

Ghost Rider wrote:Actually they adapt to only a very specific system.

Note that a Power that did not use a Frequency based system ripped through them like hot butter?

So please...they don't adapt to energy whatsoever, they adapt because the Federation and the other power use a technology that utilizes frequencies...and brute force effects shred through them still.

Everyone (presumeably) knows that brute force can overcome any defensive system if strong enough, GH. This applies in any case, not just the Borg. I fail to see why you even brought up Species 8472, since we know even starship hulls and generated forcefields cannot stop even an injured member of Species 8472 from tearing through them (ref STVOY "Prey").

To claim a drone even sporting a KE shield could stop them is wishful thinking.

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2004-09-03 01:47am

I would ask you then:

Why go to the bother and expense to outfit every borg drone with a personal shield that only defends against a few variations of energy weapons?
What example was this? Because I doubt it can be considered the norm that most non federation energy weapons by-pass the shields.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-09-03 07:24am

Robert Walper wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:Actually they adapt to only a very specific system.
Note that a Power that did not use a Frequency based system ripped through them like hot butter?
So please...they don't adapt to energy whatsoever, they adapt because the Federation and the other power use a technology that utilizes frequencies...and brute force effects shred through them still.
Everyone (presumeably) knows that brute force can overcome any defensive system if strong enough, GH. This applies in any case, not just the Borg. I fail to see why you even brought up Species 8472, since we know even starship hulls and generated forcefields cannot stop even an injured member of Species 8472 from tearing through them (ref STVOY "Prey").
To claim a drone even sporting a KE shield could stop them is wishful thinking.

This invalidates GR's point that the Borg don't adapt to raw power how?
Drone KE shields may very well have been useless against 8472, that's beside the point. They would still have been useful on several other occasions, and we didn't see them there.
Given that KE weapons are the most basic one any civilization employs given the number of races the Borg have supposedly assimilated expecting them to NOT have run into any is preposterous. Since they didn't develop individual KE shields (or at least not ones that are any use) chances are they can't.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-09-03 07:33am

The Silence and I wrote:I would ask you then:
Why go to the bother and expense to outfit every borg drone with a personal shield that only defends against a few variations of energy weapons?

1.Because those 'few variations' apparently make up the vast majority of weapons thy're up against (which actually makes sense as for a given firepower those weapons are actually MORE effective than brute force ones)
2.Who said they defend only against those? they adapt only to those.
They WILL hold up against most of them until they're overcome by sheer energy input.

What example was this? Because I doubt it can be considered the norm that most non federation energy weapons by-pass the shields.

They do NOT automatically bypass the shields. IF the shield'S capacity exceeds the weapons' it will still hold. However, if it does NOT, the shield can't adapt tho that, as opposed to the frequency shenanigans of Trek's major powers. Notice how the Cube in FC got plastered despite being able to adapt to phasers-the Fed's by then apparently had the sheer power to just break down the shield.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-09-03 10:51am

Batman wrote:This invalidates GR's point that the Borg don't adapt to raw power how?

Who said the Borg "adapt" to raw power? Either their power capabilites are sufficient or not.

Drone KE shields may very well have been useless against 8472, that's beside the point.
They would still have been useful on several other occasions, and we didn't see them there.

Borg drones aren't typically fitted with KE shielding. This has already been established. In fact, we've only seen one Borg drone utilize it. This does not refute the capability to construct and employ said shielding.

Given that KE weapons are the most basic one any civilization employs given the number of races the Borg have supposedly assimilated expecting them to NOT have run into any is preposterous.

Yet the Borg conquered these thousands of assimilated races, despite your assertion that they should've employed the most "basic" KE weapons. Obviously, they failed and the Borg succeeded. Without KE shields. Obviously they don't need them that badly, huh?

Since they didn't develop individual KE shields (or at least not ones that are any use) chances are they can't.

We've seen modern Borg technology construct a fully functional KE shield and we saw it effectively used. Given the enormous success of the Borg Collective, obviously the "need" to employ KE shielding is quite insignificant.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-09-03 03:54pm

Robert Walper wrote:
Batman wrote:This invalidates GR's point that the Borg don't adapt to raw power how?
Who said the Borg "adapt" to raw power? Either their power capabilites are sufficient or not.

You do indeed never seem to have made that assumption. My apologies.

Drone KE shields may very well have been useless against 8472, that's beside the point.
They would still have been useful on several other occasions, and we didn't see them there.
Borg drones aren't typically fitted with KE shielding. This has already been established. In fact, we've only seen one Borg drone utilize it. This does not refute the capability to construct and employ said shielding.

Yes it does, as that drone employed 29th century technology to do it.
They may have the theory behind it (which would explain how One knew to do so with the right materials) but they do not have the capability as such.

Given that KE weapons are the most basic one any civilization employs given the number of races the Borg have supposedly assimilated expecting them to NOT have run into any is preposterous.
Yet the Borg conquered these thousands of assimilated races, despite your assertion that they should've employed the most "basic" KE weapons. Obviously, they failed and the Borg succeeded. Without KE shields. Obviously they don't need them that badly, huh?

They have assimilated thousands of cultures. Wether or not those were conquered is unestablished (assuming no canon evidence to the contrary, of course). And given that just about every time KE is employed against them they get reamed, if they do have them one wonders why they don't use them...
If you're arguing that for whatever reason the Borg don't have them,
why has this gone on for so long?

Since they didn't develop individual KE shields (or at least not ones that are any use) chances are they can't.
We've seen modern Borg technology construct a fully functional KE shield and we saw it effectively used.

By a drone with access to 29th century technology.

Given the enormous success of the Borg Collective,

Excuse me? They regularly get thwarted by what may very well the most inept important military power in the history of TV SciFi...

obviously the "need" to employ KE shielding is quite insignificant.

Given that virtually every time they are attacked via KE they get their asses handed to them, wether or not they need them if they have and don't use them that merely reaffirms everybody's conclusion that the Borg are stupid like nobody's business...

Once more-
DO you, or do you NOT claim that 24th century Borg have effective individual- level KE shields?
If you DON'T, what's the fucking problem?
If you DO, why pray tell do they NEVER EVER use them (and NO, One was NOT strictly a 24th century Borg)?

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-09-03 07:33pm

Batman wrote:
Borg drones aren't typically fitted with KE shielding. This has already been established. In fact, we've only seen one Borg drone utilize it. This does not refute the capability to construct and employ said shielding.
Yes it does, as that drone employed 29th century technology to do it.

Explain how the 29th century holoemitter designed and built a KE shield then, and made it practical. This should quite interesting, since we know the mobile emitter was adapted to regulate One's neural functions...and that was it. The nanoprobes replicated the emitter's alloy as One's armor, but other than that the emitter's contributions seem to be quite minor.

They may have the theory behind it (which would explain how One knew to do so with the right materials) but they do not have the capability as such.

The technology was built and worked fine. That is more than just a "theory".

Borg technology also has the ability to create a drone, from scratch, within a day. Impressive, no? Then why don't they employ it? Because the Borg's current method of expanding their numbers is much faster. They can gain new drones in just a couple of hours by assimilating a victim (minutes if we ignore not being fully equipped), without the resource drain of One's creation.

The Borg's ability to construct functional and practical KE shielding is also established, however as I pointed out earlier, the necessity of employing them in minor at best.

Yet the Borg conquered these thousands of assimilated races, despite your assertion that they should've employed the most "basic" KE weapons. Obviously, they failed and the Borg succeeded. Without KE shields. Obviously they don't need them that badly, huh?
They have assimilated thousands of cultures. Wether or not those were conquered is unestablished (assuming no canon evidence to the contrary, of course).

I suspect we can safely assume the Borg have in fact "conquered" many cultures(quite easily thousands, they've classified at least 10,026 as of STVOY "Dark Frontier"). The fact their space/deployment spans an entire quadrant or more would seem to justify this assumption.

And given that just about every time KE is employed against them they get reamed, if they do have them one wonders why they don't use them...

You mean like in First Contact, where the drones, despite this "horrible vulnerability", sent the Starfleet force packing and made them so desperate as to try and self destruct their own ship?

We've seen modern Borg technology construct a fully functional KE shield and we saw it effectively used.
By a drone with access to 29th century technology.

Which has absolutely zero credibility for designing and constructing said Borg technology.

Given the enormous success of the Borg Collective,
Excuse me? They regularly get thwarted by what may very well the most inept important military power in the history of TV SciFi...

Riight. At best, the Collective has a passing interest in humanity. The Borg Queen herself identified humanity as a low quality/priority assimilation target. The fact is the Borg lost their intial assault on the basis of a fluke, and their second assault was a miscalculation on humanity's ability to resist their assimilation attempt (no one here is saying the Borg are infalliable). That hardly qualifies as "regularily thwarting" the Borg. Everyone here (I presume) seems to rationally acknowledge if the Borg really wanted to, they'd crush the Federation like a bug.

obviously the "need" to employ KE shielding is quite insignificant.
Given that virtually every time they are attacked via KE they get their asses handed to them, wether or not they need them if they have and don't use them that merely reaffirms everybody's conclusion that the Borg are stupid like nobody's business...

For the last time, the Borg technology base can easily construct a functional and practical KE shield. We've seen it done and used. But the Borg don't need it to the degree you're attempting to imply.

We know Borg technology can grow a fully adult drone within a day. But their current method of expanding their numbers is much faster, and *gasp* more efficient.

The only arguements you've been able to submit about the "desperate need for KE shielding" are, at best, minor exceptions to the rule:

First Contact can be easily written off as a scenario where KE shielding was "desperately" needed, because the Starfleet forces lost that battle.

Data's ability to throw drones around can also be written off, unless someone would moronically suggest the Borg should efficiently deploy KE shielding throughout the Collective to combat a unique and single andriod, which can be man handled by a couple of drones anyhow (how do you think they strapped him down in FC? Hell, even Locutus gave Data a run for his money in a test of strength in BOBW).

Worf's presence can also be written off, since his presence did precisely jack shit about saving the Enterprise, and his presence was also an unanticipated variable. Since the Borg took the Enterprise anyhow, obviously their boarding action had sufficient redundancy for unexcpected variables. Had it been a Klingon ship, the Borg would've sent different types of drones. As we saw in STVOY "Unimatrix Zero", the Borg have drones that can engage and bitchslap Klingon warriors with armed with melle weapons (Bat'Leth in that case). (Again, despite their "vulnerability" to KE attacks).

Once more-
DO you, or do you NOT claim that 24th century Borg have effective individual- level KE shields?

They obviously and irrefuteably possess the technology, but chose not to employ it. Given the Borg are hardly in need of it (like their ability to build a drone from scratch in less than a day), the fact it's not employed is hardly worth note.

If you DO, why pray tell do they NEVER EVER use them

Because drones aren't equipped with KE shielding, because from a cost to benefit ratio, they are hardly worth the effort (it is inefficient to equip your troops with technology if the expectation is that they will not need it in any significant scenario). Drones already bitchslap enemy units in hand to hand well enough. Drones can even manhandle Data.

(and NO, One was NOT strictly a 24th century Borg)?

The assertion One was a "29th century" Borg is supported solely by dialogue by a Starfleet crew that SDN members take enormous glee in pointing out are morons(until upping their intelligence level supports their arguements...how surprising).

His capabilities come across as nothing more than just Borg technology that is either not widespread or the Collective doesn't feel the need to use (like KE shielding, drone creation within a day, etc).

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-09-03 07:35pm

Oh lord, Robert is spewing this 'One' bullcrap again? Here's two things to remind him of:

It's a Holo-Emittor. Therefore, it is not inaccurate to simply assume One may be a Hologram like the Doctor, inspired by the Probes. Are any of his demonstrated abilities outside of a Projector?(Can't remember)

If there's nothing in One that can't be replicated by the Collective, you great flipping retard, why were they desperate to Assimalte him?

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-09-03 07:53pm

SirNitram wrote:Oh lord, Robert is spewing this 'One' bullcrap again? Here's two things to remind him of:

It's a Holo-Emittor. Therefore, it is not inaccurate to simply assume One may be a Hologram like the Doctor, inspired by the Probes. Are any of his demonstrated abilities outside of a Projector?(Can't remember)

Resistance to energy weapons which routinely disrupts the mobile emitter hologram for one. Resistance to physical impacts which has knocked the emitter our of comission as well.

That idea is absurd if only for the question why did the nanoprobes required DNA samples and physical material to assimilate and work with? If One was merely a hologram, all the nanoprobes would've needed to do is create/implement a program, nothing else.

If there's nothing in One that can't be replicated by the Collective, you great flipping retard, why were they desperate to Assimalte him?

Excuse me? Where is it determined the Borg were "desperate" to "assimilate" One? Because a sphere showed up?

One's Borg technology activated a proximity signal in order to be picked up. The Collective's response to One was no different than their response at picking up Hugh (aka Third of Five), or the Collective's response in picking up Borg survivors in STVOY "Survival Instinct".

While on that note, One's ability to "disrupt" and take over a sphere seems to be just an extension of Hugh's unintentional act of infecting a Borg vesssel with "individuality" in STTNG "I, Borg".

The Collective might require extra measures to re-assimilate a drone which exhibits individuality (could be a technological limitation or some such). Simply jacking into the Collective immediately can cause problems, like Hugh's effect and One's. And before you protest, we know the Borg can in fact re-assimilate drones which exhibit individuality, as seen in STVOY "Survival Instinct". Apparently a memory wipe is good enough.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-09-03 07:57pm

Robert Walper wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Oh lord, Robert is spewing this 'One' bullcrap again? Here's two things to remind him of:

It's a Holo-Emittor. Therefore, it is not inaccurate to simply assume One may be a Hologram like the Doctor, inspired by the Probes. Are any of his demonstrated abilities outside of a Projector?(Can't remember)
Resistance to energy weapons which routinely disrupts the mobile emitter hologram for one. Resistance to physical impacts which has knocked the emitter our of comission as well.

That idea is absurd if only for the question why did the nanoprobes required DNA samples and physical material to assimilate and work with? If One was merely a hologram, all the nanoprobes would've needed to do is create/implement a program, nothing else.

Gathering data for the hologram and how to augment it beyond the weaknesses you described. It certainly beats the idiotic 'Nanoprobes disobey conservation of mass' crap you spew.

If there's nothing in One that can't be replicated by the Collective, you great flipping retard, why were they desperate to Assimalte him?
Excuse me? Where is it determined the Borg were "desperate" to "assimilate" One? Because a sphere showed up?

Probably the dialogue where One was afraid the Borg would keep following him, the Sphere that was sodding huge.. Stuff like that. Stuff never gone to for Voyager itself, which did have tech the Collective doesn't. Let's hear the excuse you reach into your ass for on this.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2004-09-03 08:01pm

SirNitram wrote: It's a Holo-Emittor. Therefore, it is not inaccurate to simply assume One may be a Hologram like the Doctor, inspired by the Probes.

Wha?

One underwent medical scanning, which would reveal a holographic nature and it seems somewhat odd that the doctor was trying to medically repair somebody who he knew to be a hologram, but then again a hologram being injured physically is also somewhat odd.

Unless I am missing something that idea seems rather, odd, to say the least.

The way I see it One's KE shield can easily be explained by the fact that the holoemitter is in essence a mobile KE shield, although I personally don't subscribe to that theory it is an easy explanation of why One had a KE shield.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-09-03 08:15pm

TheDarkling wrote:
SirNitram wrote: It's a Holo-Emittor. Therefore, it is not inaccurate to simply assume One may be a Hologram like the Doctor, inspired by the Probes.
Wha?

One underwent medical scanning, which would reveal a holographic nature and it seems somewhat odd that the doctor was trying to medically repair somebody who he knew to be a hologram, but then again a hologram being injured physically is also somewhat odd.

Unless I am missing something that idea seems rather, odd, to say the least.

The way I see it One's KE shield can easily be explained by the fact that the holoemitter is in essence a mobile KE shield, although I personally don't subscribe to that theory it is an easy explanation of why One had a KE shield.

Since the Doctor could manipulate matter, it does seem to have KE and momentum influencing properties, so yea, that's the easiest explanation. I was unaware of the medical exam.