STGOD 4 OOC Thread (part 2)

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-09-02 04:23pm

Beowulf, remember. Most people in this game are not metagamers. Which means you can tell people what you are planning, and they will not jump on top of it. There are some things that need to be kept secret, of course, but you can tell a lot of info in in-game posts. As long as you aren't saying it out-loud in an unsecure location, you can always ask "how do you know" if someone tries to metagame, then work from that. Dropping the most vague hints that rely on arcane knowledge from an STGOD that wrapped a year ago is, quite frankly, dumb.

And your entire modification argument is shit. "I bring in a bike, a simple bike with no problems whatsoever. But a few minutes with a tool kit and I have DAS UBER BOMB THAT DESTROYS WORLDS." That's not cool. To make this even somewhat legitimate, you should have said that the bike functioned off of a Matter/Energy converter (tech concerns aside) instaid of making vague reerences to battery life of all things.

In the future, PM the guy involved. And if you don't PM him (which you should), at least put some solid hints in your posts and dont auto your guy past customs. I admit that I have done some stuff like this before, just not thinking, but I have ALWAYS pulled back the post and tried to come to a compromise when I screw up.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-09-02 04:26pm

Aly, you let me get through customs high explosive shells for a "big game" rifle. Don't go whining that you can't get explosives. And most types of propellants for guns are actually low explosives.

Stick fo tNt? Yeah, probably. But the store would also keep a record of who bought it in case they get asked(sp) and you can be guaranteed, the republic has detailed records of those shells

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-09-02 04:28pm

If Beowulf had been honest about his form of power generation, I would have objected to it from the start. In the far more high-tech setting of STGOD2, I objected to the bullshit that is his DC power. But no. We get this ridiculous bullshit dance instead. It's total bullshit, especially for this tech level, to have a weapon that devastating and concealable.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2004-09-02 04:28pm

InnocentBystander wrote:Could you, perhaps, answer the question?

InnocentBystander wrote:how a device that converts matter to energy direction is within the tech limit

Could you perhaps answer this question?

How are Artificial Intelligences(that aren't one offs), People coming back from the dead, and Interdictors within the tech limit?

M-E convertors don't have a much different power output from a AM reactor, which is definately within the tech limit.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-09-02 04:28pm

Beowulf wrote:
InnocentBystander wrote:Beowulf; all things aside. Can I ask you how a device that converts matter to energy direction is within the tech limit? None of this "Well I already said so, and you didn't see it, ha ha".
Lemme put it this way. In all the supposedly DS9 tech level STGODs we've had, none of them have had any complaints about me starting of with this. Hell, every one of my empires has used it, from STGOD1 to STGOD2 to my first empire in this STGOD. No one has complained.

See, now that's funny. This same exact thing happened in STGOD 2, and as I recall, there was a LOT of complaining. In the end, it doesn't matter. Such ridiculous technology has been banned from this STGOD, by the ruling of the mod. Get over it and move on.

Aly, you let me get through customs high explosive shells for a "big game" rifle. Don't go whining that you can't get explosives. And most types of propellants for guns are actually low explosives.

Yeah, but explosives designed for small arms can't be used to make city-buster thermonuclear-scale bombs, by and large.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-02 04:30pm

The issue has been resolved thanks to timely mod intervention. Let's move on/

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2004-09-02 05:01pm

Beowulf wrote:
InnocentBystander wrote:Could you, perhaps, answer the question?

InnocentBystander wrote:how a device that converts matter to energy direction is within the tech limit
Could you perhaps answer this question?

How are Artificial Intelligences(that aren't one offs), People coming back from the dead, and Interdictors within the tech limit?

M-E convertors don't have a much different power output from a AM reactor, which is definately within the tech limit.

1. AI is in Star trek, by TNG, granted it is not quite as advanced as the machines, but it isn't that far fetched.
2. People are not coming back from the dead. These are new people with the same memories. To society, they are the same people, but for that person who died, he is most definatly dead. What the "people" of stgod believe and the actual truth are two different things. This is sort of on the edge, but consider that in star trek they could save entire people in transporter pattern buffers in seconds, it's not so far fetched that a copy could be made of a person's brain structure. Again, slight deviation of star trek; but nothing thats so out there.
3. Yes, output is similar. Would you like me to point out that anti-matter is, even in DS9 tech, fucking expensive? Or how about the problem of keeping it from destroying itself? Needless to say they are quite different.

Let me give a similar example.
I have two weapons. A pointy stick and a bronze spear.
Both will provide roughly the same output; a dead person. Are they similar? Yes indeed they are. Could a prehistoric human make a pointy stick? Yes. Could he make a bronze spear? Nope. That is just way beyond his technology level.

This is a clear violation of our technology level. Hell man, I don't even think they have that level of technology in Star Wars!

Post by **Beowulf** » 2004-09-02 05:20pm

InnocentBystander wrote:1. AI is in Star trek, by TNG, granted it is not quite as advanced as the machines, but it isn't that far fetched.
2. People are not coming back from the dead. These are new people with the same memories. To society, they are the same people, but for that person who died, he is most definatly dead. What the "people" of stgod believe and the actual truth are two different things. This is sort of on the edge, but consider that in star trek they could save entire people in transporter pattern buffers in seconds, it's not so far fetched that a copy could be made of a person's brain structure. Again, slight deviation of star trek; but nothing thats so out there.
3. Yes, output is similar. Would you like me to point out that anti-matter is, even in DS9 tech, fucking expensive? Or how about the problem of keeping it from destroying itself? Needless to say they are quite different.

Let me give a similar example.
I have two weapons. A pointy stick and a bronze spear.
Both will provide roughly the same output; a dead person. Are they similar? Yes indeed they are. Could a prehistoric human make a pointy stick? Yes. Could he make a bronze spear? Nope. That is just way beyond his technology level.

This is a clear violation of our technology level. Hell man, I don't even think they have that level of technology in Star Wars!

1. Every example of AIs in Star Trek is presented as a one-off, or fluke. EMH from VOY? Fluke. Data? One-off, that cannot be duplicated. Ditto Lore. Need I go on?

2. Pattern Buffer... That's not remotely similar to a constant online backup.

3. I see you failed to address interdictors

4. That's an invalid analogy. An weapon laser is higher tech than a nuclear bomb, but the nuke kills more people.

5. Starwars has even higher output power sources than even a matter to energy convertor could supply. Nice Red Herring though.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-02 05:24pm

Illudium Q-36

If that was supposed to be your giveaway (the Illudium Q-36 Space Modulator of Marvin the Martian fame, which could destroy Earth with a quantity equal in volume to half a stick of dynamite) it wasn't a good enough one. First off, I imagine that a lot of us haven't watched those cartoons in years (I haven't, but I have a nearly photographic memory) and secondly it's entirely OOC and therefore not legitimate in-game evidence. (It was a clever name, though. Gotta give you that.

)

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-09-02 05:25pm

Beowulf wrote:1. Every example of AIs in Star Trek is presented as a one-off, or fluke. EMH from VOY? Fluke. Data? One-off, that cannot be duplicated. Ditto Lore. Need I go on?

Yes. You do need to. Because you've done two of the dozens of AI entities we've found in Trek, from the self-governing ship in TOS that turned on it's owners, to the numerous times the E-D has produced intelligences.

2. Pattern Buffer... That's not remotely similar to a constant online backup.

'Cept that you can keep a person held in the Buffer 'alive' in a computer of sufficient size(DS9)

3. I see you failed to address interdictors

Worf constructs a device that yanks ships from Warp. Woops! You lose.

4. That's an invalid analogy. An weapon laser is higher tech than a nuclear bomb, but the nuke kills more people.

Yep. And if you would like to use a lower-tech device, go ahead.. It'll just get found.

5. Starwars has even higher output power sources than even a matter to energy convertor could supply. Nice Red Herring though.

Complete lie. They use hyperdense fuel, which is still limited by E=MC^2.

You lie so poorly, Beowulf!

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-09-02 05:52pm

Beowulf the Mod said no. Give it up, it's over. Take the couple Senators and whatnot Aly will give up and shut up already! You have lost and are only wasting space and frankly Nitram and the others are kicking your ass in this "debate."

Post by **Beowulf** » 2004-09-02 06:05pm

SirNitram wrote:
Beowulf wrote:1. Every example of AIs in Star Trek is presented as a one-off, or fluke. EMH from VOY? Fluke. Data? One-off, that cannot be duplicated. Ditto Lore. Need I go on?
Yes. You do need to. Because you've done two of the dozens of AI entities we've found in Trek, from the self-governing ship in TOS that turned on it's owners, to the numerous times the E-D has produced intelligences.

2. Pattern Buffer... That's not remotely similar to a constant online backup.
'Cept that you can keep a person held in the Buffer 'alive' in a computer of sufficient size(DS9)

3. I see you failed to address interdictors
Worf constructs a device that yanks ships from Warp. Woops! You lose.

4. That's an invalid analogy. An weapon laser is higher tech than a nuclear bomb, but the nuke kills more people.
Yep. And if you would like to use a lower-tech device, go ahead.. It'll just get found.

5. Starwars has even higher output power sources than even a matter to energy convertor could supply. Nice Red Herring though.
Complete lie. They use hyperdense fuel, which is still limited by E=MC^2.

You lie so poorly, Beowulf!

E-D intelligences? As I recall, they never meant to create those. Flukes the whole lot. And for that matter, I only recall one of those, but I may be wrong.

A person maybe kept 'alive' in a pattern buffer, but they certainly couldn't do anything while being kept alive.

The power requirements for a Death Star would require that they annihilate a mass on the order of that of Luna. And the DS can do multiple shots. This is enough mass to cause noticable tidal effects, which simply isn't present for Endor. I'll point you towards Wong's page on SW power generation.

Now, current state of the art puts the largest ships at about 15 GT of firepower per energy volley. This is about 200 tons of Deuterium, every two seconds. For reference, see Aly's OOB. That's a shit load of mass to use.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-02 06:06pm

Yeah. This argument is over.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2004-09-02 06:07pm

frigidmagi wrote:Beowulf the Mod said no. Give it up, it's over. Take the couple Senators and whatnot Aly will give up and shut up already! You have lost and are only wasting space and frankly Nitram and the others are kicking your ass in this "debate."

I'll accept that I only got a few Senators. It's just that them complaining that something's out of the techlevel, when there are many other things also outside the techlevel, and the DC core isn't very far outside of it, is silly.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-09-02 06:09pm

Beowulf wrote:
frigidmagi wrote:Beowulf the Mod said no. Give it up, it's over. Take the couple Senators and whatnot Aly will give up and shut up already! You have lost and are only wasting space and frankly Nitram and the others are kicking your ass in this "debate."
I'll accept that I only got a few Senators. It's just that them complaining that something's out of the techlevel, when there are many other things also outside the techlevel, and the DC core isn't very far outside of it, is silly.

Now, post the redux

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-09-02 06:38pm

I would assume, at the rate Thirdfain is puming out ships, I would be justifed in getting a batch completed yes?

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-02 06:40pm

*Barabas voice*

Stronger... and Stronger....

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-02 06:41pm

No, this latest group is being lauchned 2 months after my last batch, and I have some outside help, and I have a significantly larger industrial base than you do.

So, maybe your first launch of cruisers or escorts since your Empire's beginning, sure. Haven't you already launched new ships since then?

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-09-02 06:45pm

Beowulf wrote:I'll accept that I only got a few Senators. It's just that them complaining that something's out of the techlevel, when there are many other things also outside the techlevel, and the DC core isn't very far outside of it, is silly.

How is a total conversion reactor not very far outside the tech level?

EDIT:
Actually, never mind. It's clear that you're on a self-pitying kick, so don't explain that shit to me. Just go sing "Nobody Knows the Trouble I Seen" in the bathroom and cry.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-09-02 06:45pm

Thirdfain wrote:No, this latest group is being lauchned 2 months after my last batch, and I have some outside help, and I have a significantly larger industrial base than you do.

So, maybe your first launch of cruisers or escorts since your Empire's beginning, sure. Haven't you already launched new ships since then?

No I have not

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-02 06:46pm

Then you'd be good to launch some escorts and the like, tho probably a smaller squadron than the one I just launched.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-09-02 06:48pm

Thirdfain wrote:Then you'd be good to launch some escorts and the like, tho probably a smaller squadron than the one I just launched.

yeah, that and the heavy capitals arent done yet

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-02 06:51pm

Right. My own next batch of capitals, the one whihc started about the same time your nation made first contact, will be launched in about 3 ingame months.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-09-02 06:57pm

The UP industry MUST PUSH HARDER!!!

Just kidding, the UP fleet is nowhere near Ouster numbers, which only makes sense now doesn't it.

Gee glad I got the Alliance and the fleets of how many other powers with me...

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-02 06:59pm

All I can say is-

Mine's BIGGER!