Zell wants a duel with you (seriously, no Zell thread yet?)

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Hamel
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Zell wants a duel with you (seriously, no Zell thread yet?)

Post by Hamel »

Slap that city
Maybe Zell Miller was just strung too tight following his wild-eyed attack on John Kerry Wednesday night. But following his primetime convention address, he made the rounds on the cable TV circuit and stole the show -- and not in a good way. Miller’s speech was so over-the-top (he essentially questioned Kerry’s loyalty to America), it prompted mild-mannered talking head David Gergen to compare Miller to racist demagogue Lester Maddox, while Time’s Joe Klein had to pick his jaw up off the ground before he could analyze it. But Miller's post-speech cable performance was even more jaw-dropping, as he first badly fumbled questions from CNN anchors, then lost it with "Hardball's" Chris Matthews, repeatedly challenging the MSNBC host to a duel and telling him to "shut up."

On CNN, he came under respectful but close questioning from Wolf Blitzer, Judy Woodruff and Jeff Greenfield, who pressed the wayward Democrat about why he mocked Kerry for using the phrase "occupiers" when describing U.S. troops in Iraq (Miller prefers "liberators"), when President Bush has himself used the same phrase for the same U.S. troops. Miller clearly had no idea that was the case and passed on giving a response. He was also asked why just three years ago he had introduced Kerry in Georgia as an American hero who had worked hard for our nation’s security (the speech is still up on Miller's Web site). Miller suggested he was new to the Senate at the time and basically didn’t know what he was talking about.

And about those weapons system votes that Miller criticized Kerry for making over a decade ago -- wasn’t it true while as Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney raised similar doubts about those very same systems? Miller said he’d let Cheney answer that himself. Finally, Blitzer asked Miller why he looked so angry during his speech, and couldn't that hurt the cause he was pushing? Miller, who in fact looked like he was suffering from flashback Atlanta road rage at the podium periodically, said he was sorry if he came across as angry because he didn’t mean to.

But that was just the warm up. Next it was over to Chris Matthews’ "Hardball" on MSNBC where Miller, perhaps still bruised by his wobbly CNN showing, just plain lost it. Actually, Miller appeared from Madison Square Garden, while "Hardball’s" set was over in Herald Square. And when Miller was announced he was greeted with a chorus of "boos" by the crowd of local Democrats assembled behind the "Hardball" taping area. Things went downhill for Miller from there.

Matthews asked Miller to defend his speech, and particularly his allegations that John Kerry voted "against" various defense appropriations. (As both Matthews and Miller know, voting against a large appropriations bill doesn't necessarily mean that you disapprove of every part of the bill). Miller got progressively angrier as Matthews persisted in holding him to his statement, telling Matthews several times that he wished he was in the studio so he could "get up in your face."

As Miller steamed, Matthews asked him if he thought that he was helping the political discourse in the country, and then, whether he even thought he was helping the Republicans by what he was saying. At that point Miller’s meltdown peaked. He started waving his arms around, demanding Matthews "shut up" and let him answer the question. Miller then lapsed into a dialogue with himself wondering, “I don’t know why I even came on this program,” before returning to Matthews and announcing he wished they lived in a previous era because he would have "challenged you to a duel."

Thursday morning, Miller may deny he was serious when he said all of that, but the semi-deranged expression on his face at that moment suggested he'd truly lost control. Matthews, slightly embarrassed by the whole thing, laughed off Miller's left field explosion, and invited him back tonight in person for a "more civil discussion." More importantly, Matthews insisted the show would get great ratings because everybody would be waiting to see if Miller was going to "beat me up."

Later, country star Larry Gatlin told MSNBC's Ron Reagan that Matthews was "out of line" and "rude." When the live audience booed, Gatlin told them "shut up or we'll have another duel." Another example of how Republicans are making good on George Bush's 2000 promise to "change the tone" of American politics -- apparently substituting dueling for debate. "Tonight was the night of the Angry White Men at the Republican convention," said former Howard Dean campaign manager Joe Trippi, quickly adding, "I don't mean that in a bad way," as if he was just too tired to get into a fight over it.
Frothing at the mouth~ And I bet that no one will pressure him to resign, then freepers will hail him as a straight-talker in the age of politcal correctness. Beforehand, Dean gives a cheerleader yelp and suddenly he's Mistar Psycho whose actions get analyzed by pundits for weeks on end.

Should we treat this sad little fuck for rabies?
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Post by frigidmagi »

Yes, while PCness tends to irrate me, this is just looniness.

Send the fucker off to have his shots.
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Post by Perinquus »

Oh Jesus Christ! I saw the interview. He was not frothing at the mouth, he was not betraying some heretofore unknown mental instability. He was a man understandably irritated by a very smarmy Chris Matthews who was asking loaded question, and asking them again after they had already been answered, and who would ask Miller a question and then interrupt him when he tried to answer it.

This article also slants things slightly. For example, Miller did not "demand that Matthews shut up", when Matthews inquired if he could he could ask Miller another question, Miller asked him if he was going to shut up so he could answer it this time - his previous attempts to answer questions having been continually interrupted. His expression was not "semi-deranged" it was irritated, as anyone would be from being interrupted constantly, and from being asked the same - loaded - question over and over again, even after it's already been answered. When Miller said he didn't know why he came for the interview, and wished he hadn't, it was because he was unsurprised to find Matthews using the same tactics he did against columnist Michelle Malkin in an interview on August 20th, when Matthews kept interrupting her, and putting words in her mouth, and at one point almost shouting at her. She was responding to a point from the book "Unfit For Command", which Matthews admitted he hadn't even read. Miller even referred to this, saying: "You are not going to do to me what you did to that young lady the other day, browbeating her to death."

Miller may have overreacted a little. But this business of characterizing him as being ready for the bughouse is every bit as much an overreaction.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Standard lib reaction: Villify and discredit your opponents rather than addressing their arguments. Its the same thing they're doing to the Swifties.

Zell Miller is not insane, not deranged, and could probably take Chris Matthews in a fight if he had to. Matthews was being a gianormous cock, not letting Miller get out a complete sentence. His speech was quite moving, and an attempt to retrieve his beloved party which he served all his life from the Michael Moores and Hillary Clintons of the world. These democrats he represents are the Southern Democrats, and if Kerry ignores them, he'll win Massachusets, California, and a blue ribbon for second place.
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Post by MKSheppard »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:His speech was quite moving, and an attempt to retrieve his beloved party which he served all his life from the Michael Moores and Hillary Clintons of the world. These democrats he represents are the Southern Democrats, and if Kerry ignores them, he'll win Massachusets, California, and a blue ribbon for second place.
DING DING DING.

Ever wonder how Reagan won? Through Southern Democrats who got called
"Reagan Democrats". There's a reason the South used to be called the "Solid
South", it ALWAYS, ALWAYS voted Demmycrat....So why the switch to republicans
over the last 20 years?
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Post by Uther »

CaptainChewbacca wrote: His speech was quite moving, and an attempt to retrieve his beloved party which he served all his life...
You're talking about Jefferson Davis's party, I do believe.
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Post by MKSheppard »

Uther wrote: You're talking about Jefferson Davis's party, I do believe.
Ah yes, nothing like throwing out random innenduoes, completely ignoring
the history of the Democrats, which included men like Harry Truman, who
integrated the US Armed forces in one day by EO, or LBJ......
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Uther wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote: His speech was quite moving, and an attempt to retrieve his beloved party which he served all his life...
You're talking about Jefferson Davis's party, I do believe.
\

And Truman, and Eisenhower, and FDR and JFK.

Point?
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Post by MKSheppard »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:and Eisenhower
Ike was a republican :D
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

MKSheppard wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:and Eisenhower
Ike was a republican :D
D'OH! Still doesn't change the fact that if Zell were running, I might vote for him.
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Post by Uther »

Miller is a good old Dixiecrat. Nothing wrong with that, really, but let's be honest here. Where do you think the rest of them went? Strom Thurmond anyone? OF COURSE Zell's with the Republicans.
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Post by MKSheppard »

Uther wrote:Miller is a good old Dixiecrat. Nothing wrong with that, really, but let's be honest here. Where do you think the rest of them went? Strom Thurmond anyone? OF COURSE Zell's with the Republicans.
Please explain why the South went from being solidly Democrat to solidy Republican 8)

They didn't split over civil rights, because even after LBJ signed in civil rights,
they still voted pretty much demmycrat. So I wonder what they split over...

Hmm....could it be that the Democratic party got hijacked by men like Richard Clarke?
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Post by Uther »

MKSheppard wrote:
Uther wrote:Miller is a good old Dixiecrat. Nothing wrong with that, really, but let's be honest here. Where do you think the rest of them went? Strom Thurmond anyone? OF COURSE Zell's with the Republicans.
Please explain why the South went from being solidly Democrat to solidy Republican 8)

They didn't split over civil rights, because even after LBJ signed in civil rights,
they still voted pretty much demmycrat. So I wonder what they split over...

Hmm....could it be that the Democratic party got hijacked by men like Richard Clarke?
It is pretty much historical fact that the Dixicrats existed to counter the burgeoning civil rights movement, beginning with the Truman administration. And guess who the Dixicrats where? Yeah, southern Democrats.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Uther wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:
Uther wrote:Miller is a good old Dixiecrat. Nothing wrong with that, really, but let's be honest here. Where do you think the rest of them went? Strom Thurmond anyone? OF COURSE Zell's with the Republicans.
Please explain why the South went from being solidly Democrat to solidy Republican 8)

They didn't split over civil rights, because even after LBJ signed in civil rights,
they still voted pretty much demmycrat. So I wonder what they split over...

Hmm....could it be that the Democratic party got hijacked by men like Richard Clarke?
It is pretty much historical fact that the Dixicrats existed to counter the burgeoning civil rights movement, beginning with the Truman administration. And guess who the Dixicrats where? Yeah, southern Democrats.
So, decades ago he was a Dixiecrat. Doesn't change the fact that he, and a good portion of Dems are conservative democrats. Kerry is ignoring them, and Zell is pissed.
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Post by Uther »

I'm just saying I have trouble getting behind a guy who at one point stood for racism and segregation. His vitriol last night, probably the biggest blow for the Republicans yet (and I give him kudos for being a fire breather), was nevertheless riddled with exagerration, bad faith distortions, and out and out meanness. If there were a crying emoticon, I'd totally use it.
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Post by Glocksman »

Zell Miller is not insane, not deranged, and could probably take Chris Matthews in a fight if he had to. Matthews was being a gianormous cock, not letting Miller get out a complete sentence.
Are you sure it wasn't Bill O'Reilly in a mask? :P
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Glocksman wrote:
Zell Miller is not insane, not deranged, and could probably take Chris Matthews in a fight if he had to. Matthews was being a gianormous cock, not letting Miller get out a complete sentence.
Are you sure it wasn't Bill O'Reilly in a mask? :P
Coulda been Anne Coulter, though.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Who the fuck gives a shit about the most religious fundamentalist, poor, badly educated, ignorant, and unhealthy region of the United States of America.

Southern "values" are not something I was propogated just about anywhere, and the reason Democrats in the South became Republicans is because they're social reactionaries. Need we tote out yet again the slim margin by which the ban to interracial marriage was lifted in Georgia? Give me a break.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Who the fuck gives a shit about the most religious fundamentalist, poor, badly educated, ignorant, and unhealthy region of the United States of America.
I don't know who DOES, but a President SHOULD.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:Who the fuck gives a shit about the most religious fundamentalist, poor, badly educated, ignorant, and unhealthy region of the United States of America.
I don't know who DOES, but a President SHOULD.
Actually, what the social and political powers in this country should do is work to drag that section of the country out of there backwards hole in the ground.
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Post by Joe »

Uther wrote:Miller is a good old Dixiecrat. Nothing wrong with that, really, but let's be honest here. Where do you think the rest of them went? Strom Thurmond anyone? OF COURSE Zell's with the Republicans.
Funny, I don't seem to remember anyone particularly caring about Miller's former segregationist views when he was praising Bill Clinton during the 1992 DNC where he was one of the keynote speakers. But now that he's with the Republicans, he's a DIXIECRAT!

I liked Zell Miller when he was with the Democratic party, and I still like Zell Miller (he really did a lot for my state, my college tuition is free because of him) and although I had mixed feelings about his speech last night, I can't say I didn't smile when I read this story. Matthews can be a real vindictive prick at times, he was asking for it and Miller was all too willing to give it to him.
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Post by Marksist »

As Jon Stewart said tonight: "Zell Miller: Building a bridge to the 18th century."

:lol:
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Post by Grand Admiral Thrawn »

John McCain wrote:I think John Kerry must have shot his dog.

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Post by SirNitram »

Marksist wrote:As Jon Stewart said tonight: "Zell Miller: Building a bridge to the 18th century."

:lol:
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Post by Aeolus »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
Uther wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote: His speech was quite moving, and an attempt to retrieve his beloved party which he served all his life...
You're talking about Jefferson Davis's party, I do believe.
\

And Truman, and Eisenhower, and FDR and JFK.

Point?
Eisenhower was a republican
For I dipt into the future, far as human eye could see,
Saw the Vision of the world, and all the wonder that would be;
Saw the heavens fill with commerce, argosies of magic sails,
Pilots of the purple twilight dropping down with costly bales;
Heard the heavens fill with shouting, and there rain'd a ghastly dew
From the nations' airy navies grappling in the central blue;
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