Sustained gunfire reported at School

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-09-03 11:39am

I thought he won because the people thought he was the Tsar.

Post by **Edi** » 2004-09-03 11:41am

Crown wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:So if you're Putin, what do you do? Carpet-bomb Chechnya in retaliation? Blow up mosques? Outlaw Islam? Will that help prevent more of this kind of behaviour in the future?
Wasn't he elected on a platform of 'winning the war in Chechenya' in the first place

Yes, he was, and he's managed to get fuck-all done toward that goal or any other solution. All that has happened so far is that there is an almost complete news blackout over Chechnya, and has been for a couple of years.

Latest count is up to 150 dead for worst case scenario. Estimates vary from 60 to 150 killed, depending on who you ask, but they don't really know yet. It's still chaos there.

Edi

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-09-03 11:46am

Apparently it seems the Islamists switched into
Civilian clothes, then let four people with an ambulance
come in to pick up the bodies of the children who had
died from dehydration...and then opened fire on them...

Followed promptly by the female suicide bombers blowing
themselves up, causing a section of a wall to come down.
Then the children who could still move made a move for
freedom through that hole in the wall, and were promptly
shot in the back

Then the Russians began moving in.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-09-03 11:49am

Children died from dehydration?!?! What the FUCK kind of monsters are we talking about here? No compassion stirred in their fucking black hearts over watching a small child slowly dying from thirst?!

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-09-03 11:53am

Stravo wrote:Children died from dehydration?!?! What the FUCK kind of monsters are we talking about here? No compassion stirred in their fucking black hearts over watching a small child slowly dying from thirst?!

I've seen reports that when the children went to the bathroom, and they
tried to drink from the taps, the terrorists watching them knocked them
away from the taps.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-09-03 11:54am

Stravo wrote:Children died from dehydration?!?! What the FUCK kind of monsters are we talking about here? No compassion stirred in their fucking black hearts over watching a small child slowly dying from thirst?!

When all you have is hate, it doesn't take much to extend it to children. The Nazis had no problem butchering children along with adults in the concentration camps.

And let's be honest here: people on our side have no problem advocating the use of heavy area bombardment against people who are "siding with the terrorists", including their children. How many children were blown apart, burned and horribly maimed, or killed by disease, malnutrition, and dehydration in Iraq as a result of war and a decade of sanctions, without anyone shedding a tear on our side?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-09-03 11:58am

Info

7:34

The head of the North Ossetian FSB states that 20 terrorists have been killed, 10 of them citizens of Arab countries.

5:40 p.m.

At least 8 terrorists have been killed, Channel One reports. According to RBC, local residents identified a disguised terrorist in the crowd and beat him to death.

A female suicide bomber was detained near the headquarters. She was dressed up in a white smock. First she tried to get in the hospital building, but was scared of police and headed toward the headquarters, where she was arrested.

The toll number keeps growing, right now over 560 people are reported to be wounded, as many as 150 dead.

Fighting in the school building is still continuing, the special forces are clearing the school. Some terrorists are hiding in the school's add-on. Others have split and gone different directions, pursued by special forces.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-09-03 11:58am

Darth Wong wrote:So if you're Putin, what do you do? Carpet-bomb Chechnya in retaliation? Blow up mosques? Outlaw Islam? Will that help prevent more of this kind of behaviour in the future?

One would think his hands are tied. There is sure to be a earshattering demand for bloody vengance from the Russian people. I can't say i blame them. Will it accomplish much? I don't think so. It's sickening. Goddamn, they killed little kids. by the dozen. on purpose. This isn't a case of children being caught in the crossfire in a warzone. They planned an attack that was specificly designed to kill as many fucking babies as possible... i'm sorry but that surpases normal human comprehension.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-09-03 12:19pm

1 - At 0850GMT a vehicle from the Emergencies Ministry is sent in to retrieve the bodies of those killed at the start of the siege
2 - A small number of the children being held hostage escape from the building. The attackers start firing at the children to try to block their escape. In response the Russian troops surrounding the school fire at the attackers
3 - A series of explosions rock the school gymnasium, bringing the roof of the building down

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-09-03 12:25pm

Seer Stuart wrote:Last report I have says its now 19 out of twenty dead. Three more are holed up in the building basement with some hostages, seven are in another building being pounded by tanks and the rest are fleeing through the countryside pursued by local citizens with deer rifles.

The best-selling deer rifle in Russia is the Tigr, a civilianized version of the Dragunov SVD. Its wickedly accurate.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-09-03 12:28pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Seer Stuart wrote:Last report I have says its now 19 out of twenty dead. Three more are holed up in the building basement with some hostages, seven are in another building being pounded by tanks and the rest are fleeing through the countryside pursued by local citizens with deer rifles.

The best-selling deer rifle in Russia is the Tigr, a civilianized version of the Dragunov SVD. Its wickedly accurate.

JESUS CHRIST!! The locals are hunting them down with deer rifles?!

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-09-03 12:29pm

The citizenry are chasing these fuckers down? Good.

I can't wait til one of those 7.62x54R cartidges scores a hit on the back of some Islamist skull.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-09-03 12:29pm

Col. Crackpot wrote: JESUS CHRIST!! The locals are hunting them down with deer rifles?!

Seer wrote:**EDIT** its now been reported that the ones who tried to flee across country (now numbered at 13) are holed up in a house, surrounded by local civilians who are shooting the place apart, brick by brick.

Confirmation awaited.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-09-03 12:37pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote: JESUS CHRIST!! The locals are hunting them down with deer rifles?!

Seer wrote:**EDIT** its now been reported that the ones who tried to flee across country (now numbered at 13) are holed up in a house, surrounded by local civilians who are shooting the place apart, brick by brick.

Confirmation awaited.

Good. Its open season.

We don't have the same thing here in America, but the first day of school in a lot of eastern europe is like fucking CHRISTMAS over there. The parents pack up a paper cone full of candy and presents, and then they bring it with their kids to school. The teacher hands them out one-at-a-time, and then there's singing and children learn about their teacher.

I almost wish I could go hunt Chechens.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-03 12:41pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I almost wish I could go hunt Chechens.

The short story wasn't called The Most Dangerous Game for nothing...

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-09-03 12:49pm

Jesus motherfucking christ! The fuckers.

You know what Putin should do? The FSB usually identifies the families of the terrorists very easily (as was the case with the Black Widows who blew up the planes and the subway station). Once the families are found, send troops to pick them up. Then shoot them all. Make the terrorists know that if they attack Russia, their loved ones will pay the price.

Its the only way, I'm afraid. But its effective. There will be no more black widows avenging their slain relatives, since they'll all be dead.

And no, I'm not saying this just becuase it fits the occasion. I really would support such a measure.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2004-09-03 12:55pm

fgalkin wrote:You know what Putin should do? The FSB usually identifies the families of the terrorists very easily (as was the case with the Black Widows who blew up the planes and the subway station). Once the families are found, send troops to pick them up. Then shoot them all. Make the terrorists know that if they attack Russia, their loved ones will pay the price.

Just round them up and shoot them? You are too nice.

Here's what they should do. Approve more funds for the Russian military, then have them train at Chechenya, by hunting down and shooting them.

Or if they can find their house, buy a guided bomb for the Air Force and let them practice PGM bombing. They don't do that this for real this much even in 1st world militaries AFAIK - the bombs are too expensive.

Bertie Wooster · Post by **Bertie Wooster** » 2004-09-03 01:00pm

fgalkin wrote: You know what Putin should do? The FSB usually identifies the families of the terrorists very easily (as was the case with the Black Widows who blew up the planes and the subway station). Once the families are found, send troops to pick them up. Then shoot them all. Make the terrorists know that if they attack Russia, their loved ones will pay the price.
-fgalkin

Don't forget to bury the bodies in pig flesh like the British did 50 years ago.

If the terrorists want to turn large-scale murder into a religious cause they should be dealt with appropriately.

Post by **Edi** » 2004-09-03 01:01pm

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:
fgalkin wrote:You know what Putin should do? The FSB usually identifies the families of the terrorists very easily (as was the case with the Black Widows who blew up the planes and the subway station). Once the families are found, send troops to pick them up. Then shoot them all. Make the terrorists know that if they attack Russia, their loved ones will pay the price.
Just round them up and shoot them? You are too nice.

Here's what they should do. Approve more funds for the Russian military, then have them train at Chechenya, by hunting down and shooting them.

Or if they can find their house, buy a guided bomb for the Air Force and let them practice PGM bombing. They don't do that this for real this much even in 1st world militaries AFAIK - the bombs are too expensive.

Unless you actually wipe out the whole population there, you won't end the problem. The families in that part of the world are not very small, and moreover, the clan structures are pretty tight knit, so instead of needing to kill just a few dozen to wipe out a whole family, you need to take out hundreds. At which point it escalates even more.

These actions are a result of Russian brutality against the civilians in Chechnya in the first place, Putin is reaping what he has sown.

And did you both miss the point about the terrorists not being exclusively Chechens? They're from all over the place and some even foreigners.

Edi

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-09-03 01:08pm

Edi wrote:Unless you actually wipe out the whole population there, you won't end the problem. The families in that part of the world are not very small, and moreover, the clan structures are pretty tight knit, so instead of needing to kill just a few dozen to wipe out a whole family, you need to take out hundreds. At which point it escalates even more.

These actions are a result of Russian brutality against the civilians in Chechnya in the first place, Putin is reaping what he has sown.

And did you both miss the point about the terrorists not being exclusively Chechens? They're from all over the place and some even foreigners.

Edi

Yes, and that is why I never mentioned the word "Chechen" in my post.

Also, during the Chechen campaign, the Russian aremy did kill civilians . But they never deliberatly targeted children. The terrorists did, and they crossed the line there.

Also, if a lot of the terrorists are not Chechen, then it kinda negates yuour statement that they were avenging dead Chechen civillians, doesn't it?

EDIT: Also, most of the clans you mentioned are already supporting the rebels either directly or indirectly. That is why they have someone to avenge. They will have to be taken out one way or the other, if there is to be any hope of a peaceful Chechnya. Now is as good a time as any.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Aeolus · Post by **Aeolus** » 2004-09-03 01:15pm

Darth Wong wrote:So if you're Putin, what do you do? Carpet-bomb Chechnya in retaliation? Blow up mosques? Outlaw Islam? Will that help prevent more of this kind of behaviour in the future?

I dont think there is anything the Russians can do that will improve the situation. They will seek revenge but I dont see how they can break the cycle

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2004-09-03 01:16pm

I tell you alot of things are going to happen as a result of this

Most of them bloody but I don't think anything WMD wise unlike a few here

Spice Runner · Post by **Spice Runner** » 2004-09-03 01:25pm

"fgalkin wrote:Also, if a lot of the terrorists are not Chechen, then it kinda negates yuour statement that they were avenging dead Chechen civillians, doesn't it?

I would assume that these islamist fundies believe they are avenging fellow muslims in Chechnya.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-09-03 01:33pm

Spice Runner wrote:
"fgalkin wrote:Also, if a lot of the terrorists are not Chechen, then it kinda negates yuour statement that they were avenging dead Chechen civillians, doesn't it?
I would assume that these islamist fundies believe they are avenging fellow muslims in Chechnya.

So they're doing what islamist fundies are doing everywhere: avenging someone in country X (Chechnya, Iraq, Palestine, etc) that they have nothing to with whatsoever.

Also note that there were apparently 10 citizens of Arab countries there, who have very little to do with Chechnya. What does that mean? That means that the Chechen rebels are part of the global jihad, along with Al Quaeda, Hamas, etc, and should be dealt with accordingly. But then you probably knew that already if you have been paying attention to the Chechen war. The Chechen rebels have well-documented ties to Al Quaeda, and trained in Afghanistan before the US cleaned house.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2004-09-03 01:37pm

CNN reported that 10 of the killed bas.. I mean militants, are of Arab descent. This shows that President Bush is correct that the international terrorism is present everywhere.
I don't believe in Hell (or Heaven for that matter), but I hope that these child murderers end up someplace warm, preferably with a pitchfork up their asses and not the 40 virgins that radical islamists are promised with.