Wichita Goths' Rights to be Left the Fuck Alone Violated

[Wicked Pilot]

As long as the Goths are showering and using deoderant than I don't see a problem. That principal must be going through her time of the month.

[Illuminatus Primus]

before he whores attention like a High School girl.

The second part will just be ignored as the ad-hominem it is.

A statement which is not a logical argument cannot be an ad hominem, moron.

[The Yosemite Bear]

No it's just an unnessarry and unprovoked attack on Ein, whom you don't like and frequently ridicule, sure he has virtually no attention span, it doesn't invalidate the primary issue of his arguement here, that a very peaceful minority in a school is being singled out and perescuted.

[The Yosemite Bear]

oh and if any syntax/grammer Nazi's want to bitch about my fucked spelling, then you deserve a damn good twapping!

[Rogue 9]

oh and if any syntax/grammer Nazi's want to bitch about my fucked spelling, then you deserve a damn good twapping!

Nuts. *Calls off the spelling Nazi pic.*

[Captain Cyran]

Last time I heard about something like "All black-clothes being banned." It got repealed in two weeks because 90% of the student population started wearing all black. Gotta love it.

[JME2]

Last time I heard about something like "All black-clothes being banned." It got repealed in two weeks because 90% of the student population started wearing all black. Gotta love it.

Well, here's to hopping for a repeat.

[Stormbringer]

Goths are intimidating? Those are about the most peaceful sons o bitchses I ever knew. While I think the look is silly, I rather liked them- never had a single problem with a "Goth"

Depends on the Goths. There were two groups of them at my school, one batch was bunch of bullies and the like. Real fucked in the head ones. Actually got into a fight with one of them a couple times.

Not all Goths are the same.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

I always though of the Goth culture as absurd, as I see it as a bunch of angsty, idealistic, middle-class teenagers, but I don't see why they have to be singled out. It's not like kids in other peer groups are any less distracting.

[Rye]

They tried to ban band shirts at our school, but that rule was never enforced. As for the whole goth thing, they're usually an alright bunch, in my experience. Fair share of dickheads, like any social grouping. I just associate with them knowing I'm cooler and smarter than all of them, and listen to heavier and more diverse music than all of them.

A statement which is not a logical argument cannot be an ad hominem, moron.

It can still be an ad hominem statement, just not a fallacious ad hominem argument.

[Admiral Valdemar]

This is why I disliked having to wear normal clothes in college after school. It really shows who is who in the place and they all stay in their own separate groups.

Personally, I hate any social stereotype that goes too far and I had a fair few goth friends, but just as many who I'd not hesitate to wave a strong electromagnet over their face and watch it rip apart.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Sure school uniforms lessen the class/social group dynamic, but since the rich kids will get the tailored versions, and the Jocks will still wear their rings and Jackets, the Shop kids will still wear their boots & portable tool kits, the dynamic will still be there, and won't change.

nothing can change the dynamics of ostracism, hate, the privledged elite, and the omega caste that has existed in high school throught america.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Mind you they tried to take the tool kits away when I was in HS (like someone could really use those tiny computer part/video part screwdrivers as weapons, what am I going to do with plastic plyers? Actually my auto shop tool kit when locked and secured made the best weapon, nothing like 30 pounds of metal being swong into an extortion minded asshat.....

[Durandal]

Well if you're going to ban the Goth look, can we ban the "gangsta" look, too? So no more ...

• ... wearing your pants' waistband around your thighs.
• ... wearing your baseball cap's bill at an angle other than straight-ahead or backward.
• ... wearing hooded sweatshirts up.
• ... wearing one pant leg rolled up while the other is all the way down.
• ... wearing those ridiculous sock things on your head (what, do these people have to be ready to rob a liquor store at a moment's notice?).
• ... wearing "FUBU" attire if you're not black.
• ... wearing that "bling bling" crap.
• ... wearing those fucking Tu Pac t-shirts. I swear, you'll hear the average high schooler talk about conspiracy theories about Tu Pac's death, but he couldn't tell you what events the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand set off.

That's a short list.

[Rogue 9]

[*]... wearing those fucking Tu Pac t-shirts. I swear, you'll hear the average high schooler talk about conspiracy theories about Tu Pac's death, but he couldn't tell you what events the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand set off.[/list]

Who in the hell is Tu Pac?

[Illuminatus Primus]

It can still be an ad hominem statement, just not a fallacious ad hominem argument.

The argumentum ad hominem is defined as a logical fallacy, moron.

[Rogue 9]

It can still be an ad hominem statement, just not a fallacious ad hominem argument.

The argumentum ad hominem is defined as a logical fallacy, moron.

Ad hominem means "against the man." An insult constitutes such. It wasn't an argumentum ad hominem, and thus not fallacious, but it could still be accurately described as an ad hominem... Assuming you know enough about Latin beyond fallacy designations.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I know what "ad hominem" means; it also means nothing except a truncation of argumentum ad hominem ("argument at the man," smart ass). "Ad hominem" as a colloquialism for insult is redundant; and is not the definition of the word.

Every dictionary defintion defines it the same way as argumentum ad hominem. It is a truncation.

[Rogue 9]

*Gets out Latin dictionary.* Want to test that theory? It was pretty clear that Rye was taking the Latin context, not the American English one, in which his description is perfectly accurate. But all semantics aside, I really don't think that was called for in the first place.

[Rye]

I know what "ad hominem" means; it also means nothing except a truncation of argumentum ad hominem ("argument at the man," smart ass). "Ad hominem" as a colloquialism for insult is redundant; and is not the definition of the word.

Actually, in the past, "ad hominem" certainly did describe insults, since they are ad hominem, simply not argumentum ad hominem, which I did outline specifically. Stop being a kneejerking bitch.

Every dictionary defintion defines it the same way as argumentum ad hominem. It is a truncation.

Hm, oh really?

Dictionary.com

Usage Note: As the principal meaning of the preposition ad suggests, the homo of ad hominem was originally the person to whom an argument was addressed, not its subject. The phrase denoted an argument designed to appeal to the listener's emotions rather than to reason, as in the sentence The Republicans' evocation of pity for the small farmer struggling to maintain his property is a purely ad hominem argument for reducing inheritance taxes.

This usage appears to be waning; only 37 percent of the Usage Panel finds this sentence acceptable. The phrase now chiefly describes an argument based on the failings of an adversary rather than on the merits of the case: Ad hominem attacks on one's opponent are a tried-and-true strategy for people who have a case that is weak.

Ninety percent of the Panel finds this sentence acceptable. The expression now also has a looser use in referring to any personal attack, whether or not it is part of an argument, as in It isn't in the best interests of the nation for the press to attack him in this personal, ad hominem way.

This use is acceptable to 65 percent of the Panel. ·Ad hominem has also recently acquired a use as a noun denoting personal attacks, as in “Notwithstanding all the ad hominem, Gingrich insists that he and Panetta can work together” (Washington Post). This usage may raise some eyebrows, though it appears to be gaining ground in journalistic style.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

Well, taking a look at the thread, and reflecting on personal experience, I've noticed several trends. The main one is this, it appears that most people, in relation to 'goths', have found many that are quite decent people, harmless enough in their own right, but have also run into some that are complete asshats. From personal experience, I can say I've seen the same results from almost any 'clothing' group. Some hick-looking people are fuckwits, some are decent people, some of the 'Fitch' crowd are arrogant little bastards, some aren't, etc. etc.

The gist here, is that from personal experience, I can say with reasonable authority that personality and demeanor are *not* decided by the clothes one wears, which makes this whole ruling, and the basis for it, rather stupid.

-Damien

[Lord Poe]

I think that school uniforms, especially for high school, is idiotic. Like it or not, high school is actually the training ground that teaches you how to deal with society once you're in the Real World.

Having kids wear the same clothes so you "can't tell" the rich kids from the poor ones is ridiculous. It seems people want to shelter kids WAY too much these days. They want all the kids to hold hands and sing "We Are The World", and then they wonder why they have a social misfit on their hands.

[Next of Kin]

I think that school uniforms, especially for high school, is idiotic. Like it or not, high school is actually the training ground that teaches you how to deal with society once you're in the Real World.

Fair enough but by that token I should be able to go to work in my track pants and sweat stained wife beater instead of my suit.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I think that school uniforms, especially for high school, is idiotic. Like it or not, high school is actually the training ground that teaches you how to deal with society once you're in the Real World.

Having kids wear the same clothes so you "can't tell" the rich kids from the poor ones is ridiculous. It seems people want to shelter kids WAY too much these days. They want all the kids to hold hands and sing "We Are The World", and then they wonder why they have a social misfit on their hands.

Which is so far away from the actual reality of having school uniforms, that it's not worth worrying about.

I don't see where Americans get these ideas from, but there's no "sheltering" or lubby-dubby crap with uniforms. It's a form of discipline and gives your school an identity. Added to the bonuses of not seeing who is filthy rich and who is just plain filthy, that's a good thing.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Well if you're going to ban the Goth look, can we ban the "gangsta" look, too? So no more ...

• ... wearing your pants' waistband around your thighs.
• ... wearing your baseball cap's bill at an angle other than straight-ahead or backward.
• ... wearing hooded sweatshirts up.
• ... wearing one pant leg rolled up while the other is all the way down.
• ... wearing those ridiculous sock things on your head (what, do these people have to be ready to rob a liquor store at a moment's notice?).
• ... wearing "FUBU" attire if you're not black.
• ... wearing that "bling bling" crap.
• ... wearing those fucking Tu Pac t-shirts. I swear, you'll hear the average high schooler talk about conspiracy theories about Tu Pac's death, but he couldn't tell you what events the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand set off.

That's a short list.

That would be sweet!

My high-school actually did ban this kind of clothing pretty successfully, but that's because some gangsta guy was killed in a fist-fight on campus.