Arnie criticized for Austrian History Gaffes

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-09-03 02:21pm

Schwarzenegger criticized for Austrian history gaffes
Friday, September 3, 2004 Posted: 10:58 AM EDT (1458 GMT)

VIENNA, Austria (AP) -- Austrian historians are ridiculing California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger for telling the Republican National Convention that he saw Soviet tanks in his homeland as a child and left a "Socialist" country when he moved away in 1968.

Recalling that the Soviets once occupied part of Austria in the aftermath of World War II, Schwarzenegger told the convention on Tuesday: "I saw tanks in the streets. I saw communism with my own eyes."

No way, historians say, challenging Schwarzenegger's knowledge of postwar history -- if not his enduring popularity among Austrians who admire him for rising from a penniless immigrant to the highest official in America's most populous state.

"It's a fact -- as a child he could not have seen a Soviet tank in Styria," the southeastern province where Schwarzenegger was born and raised, historian Stefan Karner told the Vienna newspaper Kurier.

Schwarzenegger, now a naturalized U.S. citizen, was born on July 30, 1947, when Styria and the neighboring province of Carinthia belonged to the British zone. At the time, postwar Austria was occupied by the four wartime allies, which also included the United States, the Soviet Union and France.

The Soviets already had left Styria in July 1945, less than three months after the end of the war, Karner noted.

"Let me tell you this: As a boy, I lived for many years across the street from where the Russians were based in Vienna -- and honestly, I never saw a Russian tank there," retiree Franz Nitsch said Friday. "He said it all on purpose -- and that's bad."

In his convention address, Schwarzenegger also said: "As a kid, I saw the Socialist country that Austria became after the Soviets left" in 1955 and Austria regained its independence.

But Martin Polaschek, a law history scholar and vice rector of Graz University, told Kurier that Austria was governed by coalition governments, including the conservative People's Party and the Social Democratic Party. Between 1945 and 1970, all the nation's chancellors were conservatives -- not Socialists.

What's more, when Schwarzenegger left in 1968, Austria was run by a conservative government headed by People's Party Chancellor Josef Klaus, a staunch Roman Catholic and a sharp critic of both the Socialists as well as the Communists ruling in countries across the Iron Curtain.

Schwarzenegger "confuses a free country with a Socialist one," said Polaschek, referring to East European Communist officials' routine descriptions of their countries as Socialist.

Polaschek saw the moderate Republican governor's recollections at the convention as a tactical move. Schwarzenegger, he said, was "using the old Communist enemy image for Bush's election campaign."

"He did not speak as a historian, after all, but as a politician," Polaschek said.

Norbert Darabos, a ranking official of Austria's opposition Social Democratic Party, sharply criticized Schwarzenegger's "disdain for his former homeland."

"The Terminator is constructing a rather bizarre Austria image," he said.

But many ordinary Austrians seemed to be in a forgiving mood Friday over the gaffes.

"Maybe he has a wrong recollection -- it's so many years since he left," said Wilma Fadrany, 32, a Vienna waitress.

"There must be political reasons for such comments," she said. "You've got to tell the (convention delegates) what they want to hear in order to win them over. Politicians always talk the way it fits into their agenda."

Now, I'm one to never miss a chance to stick it to the Bush campaign, but this is just silly. It was hyperbole for fuck's sake. John Kerry's seared memories of being in Cambodia was much more newsworthy and relevant to criticism rather than Arnold's embelishments.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-09-03 02:29pm

The stuff about Austria being a socialist country sounds like a hyperbole; I can live with that. But the stuff about Austria being occupied by the Soviets, no. Something went off in my head when I heard him talking about that. I guess I wasn't just crazy.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-09-03 05:09pm

Joe wrote:The stuff about Austria being a socialist country sounds like a hyperbole; I can live with that. But the stuff about Austria being occupied by the Soviets, no. Something went off in my head when I heard him talking about that. I guess I wasn't just crazy.

The part that's really funny about the Gropenfuhrer is his claim that he decided to be a Republican after listening to a debate between Nixon and Humphrey.

No such debate ever took place.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-09-03 05:33pm

What's with all the nazi jokes? I mean, yeah he's Austrian and conservative (barely), but calling him a nazi really is insulting, childish, and offensive to people whose lives were ruined by the real nazis.

If you can't think of a more clever way to make fun of a muscle-bound action-movie star with a thick accent, you really should just shut up because you're an idiot.

(And this is not just aimed at Elfdart.)

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-09-03 05:40pm

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:What's with all the nazi jokes? I mean, yeah he's Austrian and conservative (barely), but calling him a nazi really is insulting, childish, and offensive to people whose lives were ruined by the real nazis.

If you can't think of a more clever way to make fun of a muscle-bound action-movie star with a thick accent, you really should just shut up because you're an idiot.

(And this is not just aimed at Elfdart.)

He made a comment saying that he admired Hitler's public speaking skills or somesuch. His opponents immediately made him sound like he was praising Hitler. Hence, the Nazi title.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-09-03 05:47pm

fgalkin wrote:He made a comment saying that he admired Hitler's public speaking skills or somesuch. His opponents immediately made him sound like he was praising Hitler. Hence, the Nazi title.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

That's ridiculous. However anyone might feel about Hitler (and I think I hate him about as much as it's possible for someone born after WWII to hate him), he had great public speaking skills.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-09-03 05:53pm

Did I mention that it took place in the 70s, too? You gotta love the rabid lefites who will problably call him a Nazi till the end of times.

Oh, and here's an article on the matter.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-09-03 05:57pm

fgalkin wrote:Did I mention that it took place in the 70s, too? You gotta love the rabid lefites who will problably call him a Nazi till the end of times.

Oh, and here's an article on the matter.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Well, that article actually makes it more reasonable, since it claims he said he admired "what Hitler did with [his position]." That's better than seizing on the statement that Hitler was a good speaker and wringing it to death.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-09-03 06:00pm

Stravo wrote:Now, I'm one to never miss a chance to stick it to the Bush campaign, but this is just silly. It was hyperbole for fuck's sake. John Kerry's seared memories of being in Cambodia was much more newsworthy and relevant to criticism rather than Arnold's embelishments.

I'll have to side with Joe on this one. Claiming that he "saw communism with [his] own eyes" is simply a lie, no matter how you slice it.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-09-03 06:02pm

The two versions of the phrase are

"I admired Hitler, for instance, because he came from being a little man with almost no formal education up to power. And I admire him for being such a good public speaker and for what he did with it."

and

"I admire him for being such a good public speaker and for his way of getting to the people and so on. But I didn't admire him for what he did with it,"

I don't see anything about him admiring what Hitler done when he was in power, only that he was a self-made man.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-09-03 06:05pm

fgalkin wrote:The two versions of the phrase are

"I admired Hitler, for instance, because he came from being a little man with almost no formal education up to power. And I admire him for being such a good public speaker and for what he did with it."

and

"I admire him for being such a good public speaker and for his way of getting to the people and so on. But I didn't admire him for what he did with it,"

I don't see anything about him admiring what Hitler done when he was in power, only that he was a self-made man.

In the first version of the quote, he states that he admires Hitler for what he did with his good public speaking skills. In the second, he does not.

EDIT: To be fair though, I'd have to say it's hard for me to believe that Schwarzenegger is actually a Nazi admirer. He stands very much at odds with the Republican party on civil rights issues like gay marriage and abortion.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-09-03 06:07pm

That's still an eerie statement that a politican shouldn't seek to make.

There are plenty of others to praise for their ambition.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-09-03 06:12pm

Durandal wrote:
fgalkin wrote:The two versions of the phrase are

"I admired Hitler, for instance, because he came from being a little man with almost no formal education up to power. And I admire him for being such a good public speaker and for what he did with it."

and

"I admire him for being such a good public speaker and for his way of getting to the people and so on. But I didn't admire him for what he did with it,"

I don't see anything about him admiring what Hitler done when he was in power, only that he was a self-made man.
In the first version of the quote, he states that he admires Hitler for what he did with his good public speaking skills. In the second, he does not.

True, I missed that. But that can be interpreted as "roused the people" not as "got the people in a genocidal frenzy"

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-09-03 06:12pm

Axis Kast wrote:That's still an eerie statement that a politican shouldn't seek to make.

There are plenty of others to praise for their ambition.

Well, the statement was made back in the 70's, and this is a time for Arnold when he had no problem saying that lifting weights made him feel like he was cumming.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-09-03 06:15pm

Both statements are stupid, no matter the career of the person making them.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-09-03 07:17pm

Durandal wrote:
fgalkin wrote:The two versions of the phrase are

"I admired Hitler, for instance, because he came from being a little man with almost no formal education up to power. And I admire him for being such a good public speaker and for what he did with it."

and

"I admire him for being such a good public speaker and for his way of getting to the people and so on. But I didn't admire him for what he did with it,"

I don't see anything about him admiring what Hitler done when he was in power, only that he was a self-made man.
In the first version of the quote, he states that he admires Hitler for what he did with his good public speaking skills. In the second, he does not.

EDIT: To be fair though, I'd have to say it's hard for me to believe that Schwarzenegger is actually a Nazi admirer. He stands very much at odds with the Republican party on civil rights issues like gay marriage and abortion.

But you forget about the Gropenfuhrer's support for Kurt Waldheim. He invited Waldheim as a guest of honor to his wedding, but federal law prohibits Nazi war criminals and SS members from entering the country. I guess he sent a card or something instead.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-09-03 07:26pm

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:What's with all the nazi jokes? I mean, yeah he's Austrian and conservative (barely), but calling him a nazi really is insulting, childish, and offensive to people whose lives were ruined by the real nazis.

If you can't think of a more clever way to make fun of a muscle-bound action-movie star with a thick accent, you really should just shut up because you're an idiot.

(And this is not just aimed at Elfdart.)

Gropen refers to the sexual harassment charges. fuhrer refers to his being a groupie for Waldheim AFTER it was discovered that Waldheim was a member of an SS "intelligence" unit that tortured and murdered prisoners in Yugoslavia.

True, people cry "wolf" too often when it comes to Nazis, but if you see the pointy ears, bushy tail, wide paws and sharp teeth prowling near your herds...

The Gropenfuhrer is no Nazi, but his love Jones for a Nazi thug is sick.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-03 08:11pm

Durandal wrote:In the first version of the quote, he states that he admires Hitler for what he did with his good public speaking skills. In the second, he does not.

EDIT: To be fair though, I'd have to say it's hard for me to believe that Schwarzenegger is actually a Nazi admirer. He stands very much at odds with the Republican party on civil rights issues like gay marriage and abortion.

Which suggests he didn't really articulate himself well rather than him being a Hitler groupie.

Elfdart wrote:Gropen refers to the sexual harassment charges. fuhrer refers to his being a groupie for Waldheim AFTER it was discovered that Waldheim was a member of an SS "intelligence" unit that tortured and murdered prisoners in Yugoslavia.

Unless that's what he admires Waldheim for then it's more than a bit dishonest. One can admire the Nazi scientists contributions to America's space program with out admiring them for being Nazis and build them rockets.

Elfdart wrote:True, people cry "wolf" too often when it comes to Nazis, but if you see the pointy ears, bushy tail, wide paws and sharp teeth prowling near your herds...

The Gropenfuhrer is no Nazi, but his love Jones for a Nazi thug is sick.

From a vicious, baseless smear to a pussyfooting disclaimer in a paragraph. I'd like to nominate you for a Kojkun Award.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-09-03 08:43pm

Of course Arnold Schwarzenegger has strong ties to the Nazis. His wife, Maria Shriver, is the granddaughter of Joseph Kennedy, one of America's most well-known and anti-Semitic Nazi sympathizers. Absolutely irrefutable.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-09-03 10:26pm

Stormbringer wrote:From a vicious, baseless smear to a pussyfooting disclaimer in a paragraph. I'd like to nominate you for a Kojkun Award.

You know, I just heard kojikun's name and thought, "Yeah where is he lately?" Then I remembered. "Oh yeah, he got banned." That brought a smile to my face.

Thank you for making me smile.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-03 10:28pm

Durandal wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:From a vicious, baseless smear to a pussyfooting disclaimer in a paragraph. I'd like to nominate you for a Kojkun Award.
You know, I just heard kojikun's name and thought, "Yeah where is he lately?" Then I remembered. "Oh yeah, he got banned." That brought a smile to my face.

Thank you for making me smile.

You're welcome. It makes me smile too.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-09-03 10:32pm

Wait wait wait... let me get this straight. Arnold Shwartzeneggar, a politician, giving a speech a political rally meant to fire up the base told a fib that wasn't true? I think I just lost bladder control due to shock and suprise!

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-09-03 10:46pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:Wait wait wait... let me get this straight. Arnold Shwartzeneggar, a politician, giving a speech a political rally meant to fire up the base told a fib that wasn't true? I think I just lost bladder control due to shock and suprise!

This is a little different from what we've been used to for the past four years, namely in that there's absolutely no hope of plausible deniability in Arnold's statement. It was simply impossible for him to have seen Russian tanks in Austria because he was born after they left. Whereas Bush never said that Saddam had something to do with 9/11.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-09-03 10:49pm

Durandal wrote:This is a little different from what we've been used to for the past four years, namely in that there's absolutely no hope of plausible deniability in Arnold's statement. It was simply impossible for him to have seen Russian tanks in Austria because he was born after they left. Whereas Bush never said that Saddam had something to do with 9/11.

I know that, but a politician lying in a speech holds absolutely no suprise for me whatsoever, particularly about his own experience. This is nothing new.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-09-03 11:18pm

Baseless smear? The Gropenfuhrer invited a known Nazi war criminal to his wedding. That's a fact. If you can't handle the unpleasant truth, that's your problem.

Your comparison of Waldheim to Von Braun or other scientists also shows an inability to face facts or think rationally. Anyone who can't tell the difference between members of an SS unit that tortured and murdered people and an engineer working on rockets is ethically challenged. What exactly did SS "intelligence" units give to the world that is as beneficial as rocket science? What silver lining was there in Waldheim's Feldgrau?

Kurt Waldheim was a complete piece of goose-stepping Nazi shit and the fact that Ahnuld wanted anything to do with him on a personal level AFTER he was exposed is revolting. I would say the same thing about any other elected official if they did the same thing.

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Arnie criticized for Austrian History Gaffes

Arnie criticized for Austrian History Gaffes

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