"If we surrender, millions will drown in rivers of bloo

[Pablo Sanchez]

That would be an interesting problem for the world political bodies to deal with--what if Russia started running nuclear weapons tests all over Chechnya? Not, of course, that I'm advocating such a thing, but it would be an amazingly complex issue for groups like the UN to deal with.

I think Bush repudiated the Nuclear Test Ban, which formerly prevented open-air nuke testing. IIRC the way is now technically clear for Russia to "test" nukes in airbursts over Chechnya.

[Sea Skimmer]

I can. But they're probably averse to nuking their own territory.

Considering that the Soviet Union used something like 100 nuclear bombs for excavation work and fire fighting on its own territory, I doubt they'd care.

[Elheru Aran]

I can. But they're probably averse to nuking their own territory.

Considering that the Soviet Union used something like 100 nuclear bombs for excavation work and fire fighting on its own territory, I doubt they'd care.

fire fighting? wouldn't that be, uh, a little... pointless? 'cause, like, nuclear explosion= FIREball...?

[CaptainChewbacca]

I can. But they're probably averse to nuking their own territory.

Considering that the Soviet Union used something like 100 nuclear bombs for excavation work and fire fighting on its own territory, I doubt they'd care.

fire fighting? wouldn't that be, uh, a little... pointless? 'cause, like, nuclear explosion= FIREball...?

It takes balls to fight fire with bigger fire

[MKSheppard]

fire fighting? wouldn't that be, uh, a little... pointless? 'cause, like, nuclear explosion= FIREball...?

Airblast would snuff the fire out

[phongn]

“A horrendous tragedy has befallen our country. We all of us deeply suffered in the past few days, letting through our hearts all the developments in the town of Beslan.

“It was not mere murderers whom we had to face; we encountered the ones who had taken up arms against defenseless children.

“First and foremost, I would like to give the words of support to the people who lost the dearest of all the treasures one can have – children, family members, close friends. I share their grief with them.

“I would like to ask you to recall all those who fell at the hands of terrorists in the past few days.

“Russian history has had many tragic pages and has seen many tragic events. We are living in a situation that took shape after the disintegration of a giant state that turned out unviable in the conditions of a rapidly changing world. But in spite of all the difficulties, we managed to keep up the kernel of that giant and called it the Russian Federation.

“We expected a change – a change for the better, but we found ourselves unprepared for many of the things that came upon us. Why did it happen?

“We are living in a transitional economy, which does not meet the requirements or the level of development of society and its political system. Internal conflicts and ethnic contradictions, so toughly suppressed by the dominating ideology in the previous epoch, are mounting now.

“Our attention to the issues of defense and security started flagging, and we let corruption mute our judiciary and law enforcement systems. Our country used to have a most potent system of border defenses, and yet it became defenseless both in the West and in the East virtually overnight.

“Creation of tangible border defenses will take years and billions of rubles, but even there our performance could be more efficient if we reacted timely and professionally.

“I must admit that we did not give a close look to the processes unfolding in our own country and abroad, or anyway we failed to react to them properly.

“We winked at our own weakness, and it is the weak who are always beaten up. Some want to tear away saucy piece of our wealth, while others help these aspirants in so doing. They still believe that Russia poses a threat to them as a nuclear power. That is why this threat must be eliminated, and terrorism is just another instrument in implementing their designs.

“As I said, we encountered crises, revolts, and terrorist acts on many occasions, but what happened this time is a terrorist crime, the cruelty of which stands beyond precedence. This is not a challenge to the President, Parliament, or cabinet of ministers; this is a challenge to the entire Russian state and its people. This is aggression against us.

“The terrorists believe they are stronger than ourselves, that their cruelty will intimidate us, paralyze our will and degenerate our society. Here we have a seeming alternative – to rebuff them or to begin obeying their orders. The second means to give in and to let them partition Russia in a hope that they will somehow let us alone.

“As President of the Russian state, a person who gave an oath to defend the nation and its territorial integrity, and last but not least, as a Russian citizen, I am confident that we have no such alternative.

“The moment we give in to their blackmail and succumb to panic, we will plunge millions of people into an endless chain of bloodletting conflicts, like Karabakh [an enclave of Azerbaijan predominantly populated by Armenians – Itar-Tass] or the Dniester region [a part of Moldova that proclaimed itself independent in the early 1990’s – Itar-Tass] or other tragedies of the kind. One cannot but see that this is obvious.

“What we have on our hands is not the scattered acts of intimidation or odd terrorist sorties. This is direct intervention on the part of international terrorism in Russia. It is a total and full-blown war that keeps claiming the lives of our compatriots.

“But world experience proves that such wars do not end quickly. Given this situation, we cannot afford complacent treatment of it anymore.

“We must set up a much more efficient system of security and make demands to our law enforcement system that its actions become proportionate to the size of new threats.

“The main thing, however, is to mobilize the consciousness of the nation in the face of a common threat. Events in other countries show that terrorists get the most adequate responses in the places where they run into the power of the state, on the one hand, and organized and united civic society, on the other.

“Dear fellow countrymen,

The people who sent the terrorists to commit that utterly heinous crime harbored a hope to set on our peoples to fight with one another and unleash a bloody feud in Northern Caucasus.

“I would like to tell you the following in that connection.

“First, an expansive set of measures aimed at strengthening the country’s unity will be prepared shortly.

“Second, I believe it is vital that we set up a new system of interaction between the forces controlling situations in Northern Caucasus.

“Third, we need a new efficient system of crisis management, based on completely novel approaches to the activity of law enforcement agencies.

“I would like make special stress on the intention to implement those measures in strict conformity with the Constitution”.

“My dear friends, all of us are living through mournful and painful hours now, and I would like to thank all of you for your self-restraint and civic responsibility.

“We have always been stronger than them and will remain so. I mean our morals, courage, and human solidarity. I saw it again this early morning.

“Beslan is literally imbued with grief and pain, but people there were so much caring for one another, so much cooperative.

“They were not afraid to risk their lives for the sake of others. They remained real people even in the most inhumane conditions.

“It is hard to reconcile oneself with bitter losses, but the ordeal has made us closer to one another and compelled us to reassess many things. We must be together nowadays, because that is the only way to defeat the enemy”.

[phongn]

I think Bush repudiated the Nuclear Test Ban, which formerly prevented open-air nuke testing. IIRC the way is now technically clear for Russia to "test" nukes in airbursts over Chechnya.

The US has signed but not ratified the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. The Limited Test Ban Treaty remains in effect but does not prohibit underground nuclear testing.

[Gustav32Vasa]

That was a strong speech.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I can. But they're probably averse to nuking their own territory.

Considering that the Soviet Union used something like 100 nuclear bombs for excavation work and fire fighting on its own territory, I doubt they'd care.

fire fighting? wouldn't that be, uh, a little... pointless? 'cause, like, nuclear explosion= FIREball...?

yeah, sucks all the O2 out of ther area, sends a blast wave clearing a good amount of potential fuel for the any wild fires.

[MKSheppard]

Rows of body bags containing dead hostages lie for identification at a morgue in the town of Vladikavkaz, September 4, 2004. At least 322 people, including 155 children, died during the bloody end to a hostage-taking at a school in the southern Russian town of Beslan, near Chechnya (news - web sites), a senior prosecutor said on Saturday. REUTERS/Sergei Karpukhin

[Sea Skimmer]

fire fighting? wouldn't that be, uh, a little... pointless? 'cause, like, nuclear explosion= FIREball...?

You airburst the weapon and smother the flames, the its not going to extinguish all of the fire, but it will knock it way back. The Soviets did it against refinery and oil field fires, which can become impossible to fight, and against some nasty forest fires. The same basic principal is very commonly used with conventional explosives to knock out individual oil well fires.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Which is bad since I didn't even blink at that factiod being a trained ex-firefighter....

and you wonder what we pyro types do for a living....

[Enigma]

Instead of nukes why not use MOAB?

[phongn]

Instead of nukes why not use MOAB?

The Russians do not have the MOAB, and a nuclear device has certain implications that a conventional (abliet large) one does not.

[Stark]

That was a good speech for a terrible day.

I don't know what the Russians will do, but they've given Putin a signed check to do whatever he wants, I doubt his public will condemn him.

[Master of Ossus]

I don't know what the Russians will do, but they've given Putin a signed check to do whatever he wants, I doubt his public will condemn him.

Hope he makes sure that everyone remotely involved in this attack meets their virgins a little early.

Honestly, though, I'm not sure what else can be done. It's not like the Russians don't have enough troops in Chechnya, already. The only thing I can see him doing is changing the ROE's and setting them to work.