Borg/Species 8472/Empire Debate

[Mr Bean]

Sovereign food for though

Quantum torps(128 Megatons each)(Generaly execept by everyone)

100 Defanits pumping out 8 per second Q-Torps agian or 4,000 Torps every second

215,595,703/4000=53,898 seconds/60=898minutes/60=14.97 Hours of Direct Hammering to take down a section of ISD shields by 100 Defanits

Take from the SW Mid Range Sticky Thread at the top of this forum

I'm going to do a revision of that tonight adding in Lights and such to give us a nice balanced picture, the previous Calcs based on ISD Ship to Ship fighting give us Petaon leve shielding techs

I think I'll update both of them soon, inculding a Brand spanking new Low End Calculation for absoulte bare bones shield strength with all the weapons this time(I excluded LTLS before)

[Needa]

An alliance of all the ST species could happen. The Federation, Klingons, and Romulans were mortal enemies for almost 200 years, 2151-2369, and they joined against the Dominion. With the Cardassians crippled, they will join the Allies. The Gorn are allies to the feds. The Tholians Would help out the Feds. The Dominion would also help out since they would be next in line for invasion. Can anbody find anything wrong with this? I want to figure this out in a common sence fasion.

Yes it could happen. But my guess is that at first sight of failure the AQ powers will split, given the differences between them.


As Mr. Wong said in his website, which I strongly you to read:

Coalition-building is potentially useful, but given the relative immaturity and numerical weakness of the major local military powers, even the most optimistic scenario (the full backing of the Klingons, the Romulans, the Cardassians, the Dominion, and the Borg) would be unlikely to stop an Imperial advance. Therefore, while coalition-building is a laudable goal, more creative strategies will be necessary.

The Feds are doom. Sorry, they are no match agaisnt a GALACTIC Empire.

[Anarchist Bunny]

*glances over long winded essay*

Anyone think this is Darkstars little buddy in our forums?

[Master of Ossus]

*glances over long winded essay*

Anyone think this is Darkstars little buddy in our forums?

This guy is much more closely related to Loser099. He's young, appears to be marginally reasonable but uninformed. Somewhat fanatical, but not to the point where he disregards everyone's statements without reason. I think he hasn't come CLOSE to the DS level, yet.

[Darth Servo]

This guy is much more closely related to Loser099. He's young, appears to be marginally reasonable but uninformed. Somewhat fanatical, but not to the point where he disregards everyone's statements without reason. I think he hasn't come CLOSE to the DS level, yet.

His main problem is he doesn't understand the importance of numbers. He clearly thinks that more technobabble means better tech and doesn't bother to check how big the mismatch really is.

[Sovereign]

If A Star Destroyer is super accurate then why wasnt the Millennium Falcon vaporized in this shot? I still believe a Fleet of Defiant class ships could put up a fight. Maybe not for long, but long enough to get sensor readings on shields or whatever.


It may be true that calculations show that a SW shield is too powerful for a ST torpedoe to penatrate it, then why do they still use Nuclear Torpedoes? The ROTJ Novel states that a Nuclear Torpedoe detonated outside of the Rebel Command Cruiser. ST Torpedoes are stronger than average Nuclear Technology, it should still have some kind of fighting chance.


One thing on the note of sensors, this site says that SW sensors are superior to ST sesors, but the Death Star did not detect any life forms on the Falcon in 'A NEW HOPE' or did the boarding party have sensors to detect life. Is this because of stupidity or sensor problems?

[Vympel]

Maybe because they didn't WANT to blow up the Millenium Falcon? I guess you forgot about that huh ....

[Vympel]

It may be true that calculations show that a SW shield is too powerful for a ST torpedoe to penatrate it, then why do they still use Nuclear Torpedoes? The ROTJ Novel states that a Nuclear Torpedoe detonated outside of the Rebel Command Cruiser. ST Torpedoes are stronger than average Nuclear Technology, it should still have some kind of fighting chance.

Incorrect. It says there was a thermonuclear explosion outside the bridge. And no, ST torpedoes have no chance- the most optimisitic estimates put them in the mear multi-megaton range, not multi-GIGATON.

One thing on the note of sensors, this site says that SW sensors are superior to ST sesors, but the Death Star did not detect any life forms on the Falcon in 'A NEW HOPE' or did the boarding party have sensors to detect life. Is this because of stupidity or sensor problems?

Because the Falcon had a SMUGGLING COMPARTMENT shielded from sensors.

[Howedar]

The scanners on the DS1 detected that all was not as it should be (ie it was sensor-shielded); thats why they sent a scanning crew aboard.

[Vympel]

In addition, that 'shot' is publicity art, and isn't from the movie.

Also, you are displaying a very annoying NO NUMBERS mentality. You do know the difference between megaton and gigaton don't you?

[Darth Servo]

If A Star Destroyer is super accurate then why wasnt the Millennium Falcon vaporized in this shot? I still believe a Fleet of Defiant class ships could put up a fight. Maybe not for long, but long enough to get sensor readings on shields or whatever.

Because they were trying to CAPTURE the Falcon, NOT destroy it.

It may be true that calculations show that a SW shield is too powerful for a ST torpedoe to penatrate it, then why do they still use Nuclear Torpedoes? The ROTJ Novel states that a Nuclear Torpedoe detonated outside of the Rebel Command Cruiser. ST Torpedoes are stronger than average Nuclear Technology, it should still have some kind of fighting chance.

If you're refering to the quote I think you are, the nuclear missle was from a ONE MAN FIGHTER and it caused no damage to the Calamari. This incident hardly helps you since it shows that SW fighters have as much punch as a ST cap ship. Furthermore, the YIELD of said torpedo was NOT given and is therefore USELESS for comparisons.

One thing on the note of sensors, this site says that SW sensors are superior to ST sesors, but the Death Star did not detect any life forms on the Falcon in 'A NEW HOPE' or did the boarding party have sensors to detect life. Is this because of stupidity or sensor problems?

Probably because those compartments were for SMUGGLING and therefore probably had some kind of sensor jamming or shielding. Thats why they were going to send a scanning crew aboard. REMEMBER?

[Darth Servo]

Even IF that pic were legit, it shows ZERO shots from the ISD ant therefore would prove nothing about ISD firepower. The shots are clearly from TIEs as anyone with functioning eyes can tell.

[Sovereign]

Shield generators produce the power needed to create and maintain deflector shields, then focus those shields around a given object, be it a ship, building, or even parts of an entire planet. There are two types of deflector shields: ray shielding and particle shielding.

Most starships carry some form of shielding technology, to protect it not only from the natural hazards of space travel, but also enemy attacks. Since smaller ships have limited power with which to generate deflector shields, they often only protect set areas, or arcs, of the vessel and rely on maneuverability to avoid fire.

Ground-based installations use immense projectors to generate a deflector shield, like the one that protected the Rebel base on Hoth from orbital bombardment. This shield worked in both directions, however, and had to be lowered momentarily to allow the launching of evacuation ships. During the Battle of Hoth, Imperial ground craft landed beyond the shield perimeter, and marched over land to destroy the generators powering the shield.

A huge generator complex with a parabolic emitter dish projected a defensive shield around the second Death Star. The generator was located on the surface of Endor's moon, enveloping the Death Star high above in protective energy. A Rebel strike team managed to knock out the shield generator in time for Alliance starfighters to fly into the Death Star's superstructure and destroy the station.
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Takes a lot of power for shields like that. ST has planetary shields too, stations like on Mars have shields around them. Dont tell me that info is bull eather, it cam from Star Wars.com, so if you do not believe the official web site then what else is there?

[Vympel]

So how does any of that help your argument whatsoever? We know what Star Wars shields can do. Yes they take a lot of power- which SW technology provides- planetary shields powerful enough to withstand a bombardment from one Executor and five ISDs.

Also, what ST planetary shields?!

[Darth Servo]

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Takes a lot of power for shields like that. ST has planetary shields too, stations like on Mars have shields around them. Dont tell me that info is bull eather, it cam from Star Wars.com, so if you do not believe the official web site then what else is there?

Find ONE instance of a PLANETARY shield in ST. Every one I've ever seen has been for only a local area--e.g. protecting a base or colony, NOT the whole planet.

The info you copied from SW.com says nothing relative to these debates. The ANH film shows the Alderaan shield covered at least a hemishpere.

Are you even trying?!?

[Sovereign]

The basic blaster technology of intensifying a beam of light into a deadly bolt is scalable, and largely the same despite the differences in weapon types and sizes. The interior mechanisms of a tiny hold-out blaster, a blaster pistol, a large blaster rifle, and a turbolaser cannon are based on the same theories and principles. A squeeze of a trigger emits volatile blaster gas into a conversion chamber, where it is excited by energy from the weapon's power source. The agitated gas is then funneled through the actuating blaster module, where it is processed into an intense particle beam. A prismatic crystal focuses the beam, and passes it through a refinement chamber which "galvens" the beam into its final bolt.
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Also from SW.com, sounds like a Phase Partical ST Phaser to me. No Number needed of the official web site

[Darth Servo]

I don't even know why we are even trying to debate with this nut. He just copies from various webpages and completely ignores our replies.

[SirNitram]

The basic blaster technology of intensifying a beam of light into a deadly bolt is scalable, and largely the same despite the differences in weapon types and sizes. The interior mechanisms of a tiny hold-out blaster, a blaster pistol, a large blaster rifle, and a turbolaser cannon are based on the same theories and principles. A squeeze of a trigger emits volatile blaster gas into a conversion chamber, where it is excited by energy from the weapon's power source. The agitated gas is then funneled through the actuating blaster module, where it is processed into an intense particle beam. A prismatic crystal focuses the beam, and passes it through a refinement chamber which "galvens" the beam into its final bolt.
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Also from SW.com, sounds like a Phase Partical ST Phaser to me. No Number needed of the official web site

Well, I don't see anything, particularly in the highlight section, to suggest anything related to wave physics. Of course, you are a fucking Trekkie moron who does not understand what 'phase' means. Kindly fuck off and learn a few things before your mindless clucking resumes.

[Vympel]

What a fucking moron.

The MECHANISM is irrelevant. What matters is CAPABILITY. Star Trek phasers are PATHETIC compared to Star Wars turbolasers. A lot of people like to debate about what turbolasers actually are- I don't care at all though, as it makes no difference either way.

[Sovereign]

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Takes a lot of power for shields like that. ST has planetary shields too, stations like on Mars have shields around them. Dont tell me that info is bull eather, it cam from Star Wars.com, so if you do not believe the official web site then what else is there?

Find ONE instance of a PLANETARY shield in ST. Every one I've ever seen has been for only a local area--e.g. protecting a base or colony, NOT the whole planet.

The info you copied from SW.com says nothing relative to these debates. The ANH film shows the Alderaan shield covered at least a hemishpere.

Are you even trying?!?

The info says it only cover PART of a Planet not all of it. That would be a lot of shield generator and they have not the time to build them when they are on the run.

[SirNitram]

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Takes a lot of power for shields like that. ST has planetary shields too, stations like on Mars have shields around them. Dont tell me that info is bull eather, it cam from Star Wars.com, so if you do not believe the official web site then what else is there?

Find ONE instance of a PLANETARY shield in ST. Every one I've ever seen has been for only a local area--e.g. protecting a base or colony, NOT the whole planet.

The info you copied from SW.com says nothing relative to these debates. The ANH film shows the Alderaan shield covered at least a hemishpere.

Are you even trying?!?

The info says it only cover PART of a Planet not all of it. That would be a lot of shield generator and they have not the time to build them when they are on the run.

At what point would SW be 'on the run'? ST ships can't bring down the shields of a 30 year old private transport.

[Darth Servo]

The basic blaster technology of intensifying a beam of light into a deadly bolt is scalable, and largely the same despite the differences in weapon types and sizes. The interior mechanisms of a tiny hold-out blaster, a blaster pistol, a large blaster rifle, and a turbolaser cannon are based on the same theories and principles. A squeeze of a trigger emits volatile blaster gas into a conversion chamber, where it is excited by energy from the weapon's power source. The agitated gas is then funneled through the actuating blaster module, where it is processed into an intense particle beam. A prismatic crystal focuses the beam, and passes it through a refinement chamber which "galvens" the beam into its final bolt.
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Also from SW.com, sounds like a Phase Partical ST Phaser to me. No Number needed of the official web site

No mention of phase ANYWHERE in what you copied and just because something is phased doesn't mean jack. See Mike's essay here

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Myt ... -coherence

We know SW weapons are NOT like ST weapons because they don't ACT the same.

And YES, you DO need numbers. Numbers are how we tell which one is stronger!!! Shich car is faster, one going 50mph or one going 100 mph. Which weaopn is more powerful, one with 10 megatons or 100 megatons?

NUMBERS ARE EVERYTHING IN THESE DEBATES!!!!!

[Vympel]

That's the link http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Myt ... ience.html

[Mr Bean]

The Matter of ST Phasers is the achive higher damage than acutal power provided

Good Right?
Well if it where not so Materal Depndant,

Nice Solid Rock gets you a good 10-20X return on your energy Investmant but for things like Shields and SuperDense Materals(Like Armor) you get big 50%-300% Power Losses

IE Say just for breivtys sake a Phaser Bank can toss out ten Megaton of Damage
VS Rocks and whatnot thats 100s of Megatons of damage thanks to the Material, However VS shields and Dense Materials you get a Big hit meaning you are hitting much less harder than normal


Thats Phasers summed up in a few

[Darth Servo]

The info says it only cover PART of a Planet not all of it. That would be a lot of shield generator and they have not the time to build them when they are on the run.

Well, at least you responded to something I wrote for once.

1) Official information is always overridden by the canon films.
2) For the second time, the canon ANH film clearly shows a shield protecting at least one hemisphere of Alderaan
3) The Endor moon was completely protedcted by a planetary shield.
From the novels:
4) The planet Caamas was immune to attack until its planetary shield was turned off by spies.

From http://h4h.com/louis/shields.html#planetshields
5) The Last Command
pg.8: "..could be seen dropping through the brief gaps Ground Control was opening for them in Ukio's energy shield, a hazy blue shell surrounding the planet about 50 kilometers above the surface.

6) Planetary shields (at least in Ukio) are well within the atmosphere.
pg.10: "Sequence four had two of the Ukians' thirty overlapping shield generators as its targets....launching such an attack would mean that Thrawn had given up on his stated goal of taking Ukio with its planetary defenses intact."
7) Wedge's Gamble
pg. 34: With his mention of the defense shields, two spheres constructed of hexagons appeared to encase the world. One moved in the direction of its orbit, the other moved in the opposite direction.