Sustained gunfire reported at School

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-09-05 02:22pm

BBC reports that the official death toll is up to 335, with many more left in the hospital. The Russians are also claiming that they didn't take any of the hostage takers alive. Enjoy your virgins, scum suckers.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-09-05 04:49pm

After reading though this(having been largly incommunicado for the last few days) I am filled with both sadness and undying rage.

I think about what those kids went through, and having helped raise my younger cousins, the thought of a child suffering forces tme to condone torture.

Take off the kid gloves, torture terrorist for information, I no longer care what methods are used. Hell, break out with the Inquisition shit. Pears, Racks, THumb/testicle screws, iron bulls, cages... the Wheel...

Oh, and when they did in questioning, behead them, and stick their heads on pikes to use as an example to others. They deserrve nothing less than death, and I say let them have it.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-09-06 08:59am

OH MY FUCKING GOD

The Sunday Mirror, UK is reporting

THE full horror of the Russian school atrocity began to emerge yesterday as traumatised children told horrific tales of stabbed babies and brutal rapes.

It has also emerged that scores of the 323 who died - including many children - had been shot in the back.

While despairing soldiers and rescue workers moved among the growing pile of body bags, it was revealed that an 18-month-old baby had been repeatedly stabbed by a black-clad terrorist who had run out of ammunition.

Other survivors told how screaming teenage girls were dragged into rooms adjoining the gymnasium where they were being held and raped by their Chechen captors who chillingly made a video film of their appalling exploits

They said children were forced to drink their own urine and eat the petals off the flowers they had brought their teachers after nearly three days without food or water in the stifling hot gym.

Their stories came as Russian officials warned that the final death toll of the siege of Middle School No 1 at Beslan in North Ossetia - in which up to 1,200 people were held captive - was likely to be more than 400....

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-09-06 09:48am

but Shep, Plekhanov said that such actions are understandable becuase of the difficult history of Chechnya.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-09-06 09:54am

Col. Crackpot wrote:but Shep, Plekhanov said that such actions are understandable becuase of the difficult history of Chechnya.

He did? Where?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-09-06 09:54am

I can predict that a lot of Su-25 FROGFOOTS are gonna end up with names
like For Ivan Fedeev and For Maria Chermatova to honor the dead
from this atrocity.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-09-06 09:57am

BoredShirtless wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:but Shep, Plekhanov said that such actions are understandable becuase of the difficult history of Chechnya.
He did? Where?

In that kneejerk rationalization thread history of chechnya or somesuch...

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-09-06 10:08am

How do most Chechens feel about Moscow?

The elections were widely criticized as illegitimate. But do most Chechens sympathize with Moscow, or would they prefer the independence that rebels promise them?

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2004-09-06 10:31am

Col. Crackpot wrote:
BoredShirtless wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:but Shep, Plekhanov said that such actions are understandable becuase of the difficult history of Chechnya.
He did? Where?
In that kneejerk rationalization thread history of chechnya or somesuch...

Yeah so he didn't, did he. You're such a shit stirrer sometimes.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-09-06 10:42am

Axis Kast wrote:How do most Chechens feel about Moscow?

The elections were widely criticized as illegitimate. But do most Chechens sympathize with Moscow, or would they prefer the independence that rebels promise them?

All I can find on short notice is Wiki, which indicates:

Since 1990, the Chechen Republic has had legal, military, and civil conflicts involving the separatist movements. However, the current government of the Chechen Republic meets most laws of Checheno-Ingushkaya ASSR, the Chechen Republic, and the Russian Federation. This compromise is considered by some to be pro-federal government. Despite popular belief, most Chechen citizens see the Chechen Republic as being within the Russian Federation (more than 70% by independent and even anti-Russian polls).

Whether any of these polls are available is another issue, as well as what they actually say- from the context, one can only assume that despite the vague wording, they believe themselves to be part of Russia, regardless of being Chechen (the same as a resident of North Ossetia would identify himself as a Russian, presumably).

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-09-06 10:58am

BoredShirtless wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:
BoredShirtless wrote: He did? Where?
In that kneejerk rationalization thread history of chechnya or somesuch...
Yeah so he didn't, did he. You're such a shit stirrer sometimes.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=52339

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-09-06 11:14am

Col. Crackpot wrote:
BoredShirtless wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:but Shep, Plekhanov said that such actions are understandable becuase of the difficult history of Chechnya.
He did? Where?
In that kneejerk rationalization thread history of chechnya or somesuch...

I never said that the acts were “understandable” (you’ll note I described it as “an act of savagery”) what I did say is that we should at least attempt to understand why the terrorists did what they did.

Are you suggesting that trying to understand what drives people to commit such atrocities is in some way wrong? How the hell can you ever fix a problem if you refuse to even look at what may have caused it?

Axis Kast wrote:How do most Chechens feel about Moscow?

The elections were widely criticized as illegitimate. But do most Chechens sympathize with Moscow, or would they prefer the independence that rebels promise them?

Thats a pretty awful choice, the moderate Chechens are stuck between a continuation of the imperial power that deported their entire population to Siberia killing a massive proportion of them in doing so, and that has been on and off running an extremely dirty war against their people for the best part of a decade on one side and psychopathic jihadies on the other kind of puts the Bush/Kerry lesser of 2 evils thing in perspective a little.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-09-06 11:21am

Plekhanov wrote: I never said that the acts were “understandable” (you’ll note I described it as “an act of savagery”) what I did say is that we should at least attempt to understand why the terrorists did what they did.

Are you suggesting that trying to understand what drives people to commit such atrocities is in some way wrong? How the hell can you ever fix a problem if you refuse to even look at what may have caused it?

That article goes a little farther than that. It seems to imply that the Russians deserved the attack because of their treatment of Chechnya.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2004-09-06 11:40am

Col. Crackpot wrote:
Plekhanov wrote: I never said that the acts were “understandable” (you’ll note I described it as “an act of savagery”) what I did say is that we should at least attempt to understand why the terrorists did what they did.

Are you suggesting that trying to understand what drives people to commit such atrocities is in some way wrong? How the hell can you ever fix a problem if you refuse to even look at what may have caused it?
That article goes a little farther than that. It seems to imply that the Russians deserved the attack because of their treatment of Chechnya.

Bullshit show me where the article says the people of Beslan deserved to be attacked. It might be suggesting that its perhaps not entirely unexpected that the some Chechens might lash out but no where does it suggest that the the attack was deserved.

Also note this bit at the bottom of the article

Slate wrote: Masha Gessen is deputy editor in chief of Bolshoy Gorod, a Moscow weekly.

Do you really think a Russian editor of a Russian magazine is going to publish a story saying those children “deserved it” even if Russia had much press freedom that would be extremely unlikely the day after the event.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-09-06 11:55am

Eight members of the elite Alfa and Vympel special operations forces were killed in the assault on the school.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2004-09-06 10:37pm

The New York Times had a fairly gruesome account of walking through the school after all the horror: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/06/inter ... ussia.html. I think it was the guy who had to scrape brains off his shoes after walking down a hallway that really got to me. I have thing thing about brains, they really gross me out....

In addition to gunning people down, a few suicide bombers, rapes, starvation, thirst, and rigging the gym to blow... it appears the terrorists had brought food and medical supplies for themselves, but had done nothing for their hostages. More proof, in my mind, that while they had some interest in their own well-being they had zero intention of letting any hostage out of the building alive.

By any standard, this is beyond the pale. Whether you feel your cause is justified or not, killing children is not going to help it.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2004-09-07 04:17pm

The late Swedish television news (and later also the BBC news) showed a video taken by the terrorists from inside the gymnasium in the school. It showed dozens of kids sitting on the floor, some with their hands on their heads, blood stains on the floor and terrorists placing explosives on the floor and the basket ball hoops.
The presenter said that the video was taken on September 1st, but there was no information on how the Russians got the tape (here in Sweden, people always questions obvious things, the authorities could have found the camera in the school or something similar. It would be difficult to fake something like that with so much people that it was on the video).

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-09-07 07:55pm

I just saw on CNN that Akhmed Zakayev blamed the attacks on local radical groups, and said that if Russia retaliated in Chechnya then a repeat of the attack would be inevitable. "We're not responsible, but we'd do it again, anyway." I have so much sympathy for the Chechen separatists, right now.

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » 2004-09-07 09:12pm

One way or another, this is going to end in fire...ideologies this diametrically opposed can't coexist in such a relatively small space, and as we notably lack anywhere to expand /to/...it's a pressure cooker. If anyone has any brilliant ideas, now's your chance, we could use a few-score Nobel Peace Prizes passed out on that topic.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2004-09-07 10:48pm

The terrorist made video is making the rounds here in the States, both national and local news have shown clips from it.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-09-08 05:07pm

Broomstick wrote:The terrorist made video is making the rounds here in the States, both national and local news have shown clips from it.

The video... the video that you've mentioned of them raping people? That's FUCKED UP

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-09-08 05:50pm

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:The video... the video that you've mentioned of them raping people? That's FUCKED UP

The part that was released doesn't actually show that. Their camera technique rivalled that of the Blair Witch Project, but it does show the hostages, terrorists wiring explosives, etc.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2004-09-08 08:17pm

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:
Broomstick wrote:The terrorist made video is making the rounds here in the States, both national and local news have shown clips from it.
The video... the video that you've mentioned of them raping people? That's FUCKED UP

Naw... you can't show actual rape on US TV so the tape is edited. But yes, we're talking about a gym full of terrified people, blood, explosives hanging over the hostages...

I'm sure if you look really, really hard you can find an unedited version. If you want to. Frankly, I'll take rape and slaughter of children second hand. I have enough nightmares, thank you very much.

Maybe the asshats who keep trying "explain" this shit should be forced to watch the whole thing, though. Like, GET A CLUE, YOU FUCKERS, THESE ARE EVIL PEOPLE!

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-09-08 08:30pm

Broomstick wrote:Maybe the asshats who keep trying "explain" this shit should be forced to watch the whole thing, though. Like, GET A CLUE, YOU FUCKERS, THESE ARE EVIL PEOPLE!

The attempt to "explain" an atrocity does not mean that one approves of that atrocity. If someone asks you what led to Nazism/WW2, do you answer "THEY WERE EVIL PEOPLE!!!!" or do you give a more sophisticated answer?

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » 2004-09-11 01:00am

Combatting something you don't understand is two things. Diffucult, and hysterically stupid. You can only say 'whoops, didn't think they would do that' so many times, before you find a radical Islamic terrorist hiding inside your toilet with a pair of garden shears.