STGOD 4 OOC Thread (part 2)

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-09-08 01:14am

Rogue 9 wrote:
Pablo Sanchez wrote:If I were you I'd worry more about getting the neutrals into this mess, on your side. Which might be a workable possibility.
That too.

Just so you guys know, I'm staying neutral except in extremities of circumstance. I helped start the fire, but I'm not going to burn in it.

EDIT:
I'm thinking that it may be prudent to take a break until tomorrow. There are certain issues that would best be made clear before we proceed. The management asks you to please pardon our dust.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-09-08 01:19am

So the Hajr are going to war on the word of a Vampire?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-08 01:20am

frigidmagi wrote:So the Hajr are going to war on the word of a Vampire?

Yeah, basically. Remember, they wanted to go to war anyway. You'd think they'd let a little thing like holes in the evidence stop them?

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-09-08 01:24am

frigidmagi wrote:So the Hajr are going to war on the word of a Vampire?

Officially? Of course not. They're officially going to war because they believe the Veithan investigation failed to turn out a decisive verdict. Part of this was due to the (fictional) joint operations with the Vampires, but their people don't put the same (deserved) stigma on my poor, misunderstood (haha) nation as do you other intolerants.

Unofficially they were going to war anyway and there would have been only minor changes in casting and scenery without my intervening bullshit. There's more going on than you're aware of. Now, it's about time for me to go to bed.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-09-08 01:25am

1: I am not your son.

2: Why shouldn't the Veithan just gang up on you and rip your mind clean?

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-09-08 01:31am

frigidmagi wrote:1: I am not your son.

It is an idiom.

frigidmagi wrote:2: Why shouldn't the Veithan just gang up on you and rip your mind clean?

With what casus belli? I questioned the results of their investigation and lied to them in an unproveable manner; attacking the Vampires would only make me look more right and would look damn suspicious to the Ousters and the Unification, wouldn't it?

Me: "Egads, they're attacking me because I proved them wrong! I think it was all a setup by the Veithans, and they're trying to silence me, HELP!"
Unification: "Well, damnit--you Veithans leave that poor boy alone."
Me: "Oooh, he bwoke my widdle ahm! Ooooh!"

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-08 01:32am

I know I would in Marcao's position. All that work just shit down the drain?

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-09-08 01:32am

Alliance: Touch the peep and we touch you. With Nukes.

And if I wouldn't let my gunny refer to me has such why should I let you?

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-09-08 01:34am

Rogue 9 wrote:I know I would in Marcao's position. All that work just shit down the drain?

But, then again, we all know what a big fan you are of mixing out-of-character and in-character motivations at will without regard to continuity.

frigidmagi wrote:And if I wouldn't let my gunny refer to me has such why should I let you?

I'm sorry, I had no idea it was a sensitive subject. I'll edit it back out.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-09-08 01:36am

It's fine, just a mistake of intent on my part. Must brush up on com skills.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-09-08 01:36am

frigidmagi wrote:It's fine, just a mistake of intent on my part. Must brush up on com skills.

My fault entirely. I'm just tired. Which brings me back to bed. For real this time. I hope. I'm a little keyed up with all this crap.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-09-08 01:51am

Gods damnit, why the hell couldn't all of this have happened in the middle of August? And why did this Worldcon have to have the shittiest internet access in the history of convetions that purport to have such?
7 computers+5100 people= shit ain't gonna happen.

I am now caught up. This took more than an hour. All in all, I think I'd go to war with Thirdfain now just for ruining that much prepwork by Marcao even if I wasn't obligated to by alliance.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-09-08 01:56am

consequences wrote:I am now caught up. This took more than an hour. All in all, I think I'd go to war with Thirdfain now just for ruining that much prepwork by Marcao even if I wasn't obligated to by alliance.

Let's be fair: I ruined it. But to be even more fair, if I hadn't, somebody else would have; or possibly another terrorist incident would have been arranged.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-09-08 02:07am

Pablo Sanchez wrote:
consequences wrote:I am now caught up. This took more than an hour. All in all, I think I'd go to war with Thirdfain now just for ruining that much prepwork by Marcao even if I wasn't obligated to by alliance.
Let's be fair: I ruined it. But to be even more fair, if I hadn't, somebody else would have; or possibly another terrorist incident would have been arranged.

Yes, but going to war with you would be much harder to logically justify after having driven straight home from Boston. Me blame Ousters, hit with big stick.

IC:Fleets prep, go to White Suns, wonder how get judo-thrown in space like Thirdfain always mumbling about.

Okay, maybe not, but that's about the level of my intellect at the moment.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-08 02:24am

consequences wrote:
Pablo Sanchez wrote:
consequences wrote:I am now caught up. This took more than an hour. All in all, I think I'd go to war with Thirdfain now just for ruining that much prepwork by Marcao even if I wasn't obligated to by alliance.
Let's be fair: I ruined it. But to be even more fair, if I hadn't, somebody else would have; or possibly another terrorist incident would have been arranged.
Yes, but going to war with you would be much harder to logically justify after having driven straight home from Boston. Me blame Ousters, hit with big stick.

IC:Fleets prep, go to White Suns, wonder how get judo-thrown in space like Thirdfain always mumbling about.

Okay, maybe not, but that's about the level of my intellect at the moment.

In that case, best sleep. We'll need you sharp tomorrow when we enact THE PLAN.

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-09-08 05:38am

Thirdfain wrote:Murzor0 if my writing of your duty officer's reaction is unacceptable, pleasse tell me and I'll change it. I wrote it purely for literary purposes and dramatacism.

You probably are who has a problem right now. As I couldn't PM the findings of the probes previously, you didn't know that I had placed the whole 5th fleet at the Talathrant system. Righ now you have 8 cruisers, 8 escort frigates and 16 raiding frigates in the same system where I have

1 mothership
1 dreadnought
1 attack carrier
10 strike cruisers
10 scout frigates
3 pocket carriers
2 strike frigates
25 torpedo frigates
35 escort frigates
5 troop transports
2 battle stations (Talathrant has a shipyard and that deserved protection superior to that of other inner colonies).

The number is different from that in the OOB, because that was the fleet composition expected after the modification of the frigates (I didn't intend to stat any war until then) and only 1/6th of the refit has been completed (the numbers I have calculated come from considering that the strike frigates were created from modified escort frigates and the pocket carriers from torpedo frigates).

How do we solve this?

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-08 08:12am

Check my post again, sarge.

I have the entire 3rd War Cluster there. the 2 cruiser groups are merely moving ahead of the main group. The full 3rd has more than twice your numbers.

There's nothing to solve. You have ships there, my scouts picked them up on the approach, my post stands. Let's rock.

Third War Cluster
Fleet Tender Glorious Return
CO: Admiral Jerac su Fassar

Cataphract Battleswarm 3.1
CO: Subadmiral Giana su Meshif

----Cataphract Swarm 3.1
2 Destiny of Man-class Cataphracts (Dominance of Primates, Pinnacle of Evolution)
10 Tarsis- class Escort Frigates
10 Knife- class Raiding Frigates
10 Vampire- class Torpedo Frigates

----Cruiser Swarm 3.3
4 Expansion of Civilization- Strike Cruisers
4 Tarsis-class Escort Frigates
8 Knife- class Raiding Frigates

Carrier Battleswarm 3.1
-Planetary Assault Group
CO: Subadmiral Quissa su Jhalar

----Carrier Swarm 3.1
2 Elysium Ascendent-class Attack Carriers (Heroic Conflict, Elysium Ascendent)
10 Tarsis- class Escort Frigates
20 Vampire-class Torpedo Frigates

----Cruiser Swarm 3.1
4 Expansion of Civilization- Strike Cruisers
4 Tarsis-class Escort Frigates
8 Knife- class Raiding Frigates

---- 3 million Gropos, 1 million Marines

Carrier Battleswarm 3.2
-Tactical Group
CO: Subadmiral Fei su Ithaca

----Carrier Swarm 3.2
2 Elysium Ascendent-class Attack Carriers (Progress Through Conflict, Child of Chaos)
10 Tarsis- class Escort Frigates
20 Vampire-class Torpedo Frigates

----Cruiser Swarm 3.2
4 Expansion of Civilization- Strike Cruisers
4 Tarsis-class Escort Frigates
8 Knife- class Raiding Frigates

Cruiser Swarm 3.4
-Independent Tactical Group
CO: Swarmleader Achad su Elysium

4 Expansion of Civilization- Strike Cruisers
4 Tarsis-class Escort Frigates
8 Knife- class Raiding Frigates

Cruiser Swarm 3.5
-Independent Tactical Group
CO: Swarmleader Kysandrea su Attoq

4 Brief Life Burns Brightly- Strike Cruisers
4 Tarsis-class Escort Frigates
8 Knife- class Raiding Frigates

-oh, and the group includes an additional 4 million troops on the Fleet Tender and in troop transports-

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-08 10:17am

Folks, there's a lot of controversy here, and a LOT of anger. That's unerstandable.

This is NOT the right way to look at this game, and it's NOT the right way to go into the war. People are taking this shit personally. I've been told people are mad because Marcao put a lot of effort into his post and I'm just discounting it. Well, I have a few points to make.

1. In-game, the Veithan report isn't the result of what was presumably days of hard work, brainstorming, and writing- it was a minor, 3rd-party report that the Hajr put up with only to show the inconclusiveness of telepathy. Yeah, folks, ooc we know what a big deal this post was for Marcao, but I'm not playing the OOC thread or my personal life. I'm playing the STGOD, and that means I'll play the IC thread like the IC thread.

2. The Veithan report IS just conjecture. They added NO new evidence. They simply said "Telepathy isn't getting us anywhere, but this evidence could be interpreted as a Lying Darkness plot. After all, they have just as much of a motive as the White Suns, and could have pulled it off. It's a legitimate explanation of the evidence, but it's just an explanation, and an unsupported one as that.

3. Even if this WASN'T a Hajr plot, I'd be inclined to believe the Vampires. Everyone knows the Hajr and the Blood Lords are allies and friends, and our relationship runs deeper than that- after all, Elanie IS Basil's prodigee. If the Vampires say that the Veithan explanation of the evidence doesn't work because of (arcanebabble which we have just as much reason to believe as Veithan telepathic evidence, which is to say not much) then we'll trust them on this.

4. This IS a Hajr plot, and I had Part Deux to hit up if this plan didn't go through. If Pablo hadn't made his move (which surprised me as well,) this would have gone through a few weeks later after a bit more diplomatic bellyaching, with more manufactured evidence and less hesitation. As is, that's not necessary.

This isn't some evil-ass metagaming move. It's a legitimate in-game power play. Now, I don't think we'll be able to have a decent war unless we go into this with cool heads, angry personal wars lead to people dropping out of the STGOD and disrupting all kinds of shit. *hrmmph*Stormbringer*Hrmff*

Screw that. We need to agree to something here, and go ahead like a bunch of gamers rather than a bunch of feuding people who take this power-play as an illegitimate personal brush-off.

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-09-08 11:01am

BTW, Marcao I had forgotten to say that the White Sun owes the Veithans a big one.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-08 11:06am

Murazor, your description is unacceptable. The Hajr attack is a probe to test your point defenses, clearly, and they are hitting and fading. Your FTL missiles allow you some kills, but the rest of the squadron is escaping before your reaction force can arrive- and you still have the rest of the 3rd incoming to Talathrant, they'll be on station outside of missile range in seconds.

Acceptable?

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-08 11:08am

Oh, shit, sorry.

I misread your post. Please, accept my apologies. Your kills are acceptable. Your post stands, but you take no casualties.

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-09-08 11:08am

Thirdfain wrote:Murazor, your description is unacceptable. The Hajr attack is a probe to test your point defenses, clearly, and they are hitting and fading. Your FTL missiles allow you some kills, but the rest of the squadron is escaping before your reaction force can arrive- and you still have the rest of the 3rd incoming to Talathrant, they'll be on station outside of missile range in seconds.

Acceptable?

Edit is in the way.

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-09-08 11:16am

Thirdfain wrote:

Oh, shit, sorry.

I misread your post. Please, accept my apologies. Your kills are acceptable. Your post stands, but you take no casualties.

Well. Partial edit then, but just to enrage the Sixtra, I lost one of the frigates because one of the cruisers got a lucky shot with its spinal lasers.

Marcao · Post by **Marcao** » 2004-09-08 11:22am

Murazor wrote:BTW, Marcao I had forgotten to say that the White Sun owes the Veithans a big one.

not a problem man. good luck with your conflict, but the Veithans gave you ten more days to prepare. It was little enough I know, but it should be useful.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-09-08 11:29am

Thirdfain wrote:Folks, there's a lot of controversy here, and a LOT of anger. That's unerstandable.

This is NOT the right way to look at this game, and it's NOT the right way to go into the war. People are taking this shit personally. I've been told people are mad because Marcao put a lot of effort into his post and I'm just discounting it. Well, I have a few points to make.

1. In-game, the Veithan report isn't the result of what was presumably days of hard work, brainstorming, and writing- it was a minor, 3rd-party report that the Hajr put up with only to show the inconclusiveness of telepathy. Yeah, folks, ooc we know what a big deal this post was for Marcao, but I'm not playing the OOC thread or my personal life. I'm playing the STGOD, and that means I'll play the IC thread like the IC thread.

Actually, the Veithan investigation took ten days from the point your admiral was scanned. Just FYI, in-game it was an actual investigation, and not just mere head-nodding.

2. The Veithan report IS just conjecture. They added NO new evidence. They simply said "Telepathy isn't getting us anywhere, but this evidence could be interpreted as a Lying Darkness plot. After all, they have just as much of a motive as the White Suns, and could have pulled it off. It's a legitimate explanation of the evidence, but it's just an explanation, and an unsupported one as that.

More than anything, the Veithan Report shoots a massive hole in the only supporting evidence that incriminates the White Suns. You may not like it, but that is what happened.

3. Even if this WASN'T a Hajr plot, I'd be inclined to believe the Vampires. Everyone knows the Hajr and the Blood Lords are allies and friends, and our relationship runs deeper than that- after all, Elanie IS Basil's prodigee. If the Vampires say that the Veithan explanation of the evidence doesn't work because of (arcanebabble which we have just as much reason to believe as Veithan telepathic evidence, which is to say not much) then we'll trust them on this.

All well and good, but just because you believe it doesn't mean anyone else has to. *shrugs*

This isn't some evil-ass metagaming move. It's a legitimate in-game power play. Now, I don't think we'll be able to have a decent war unless we go into this with cool heads, angry personal wars lead to people dropping out of the STGOD and disrupting all kinds of shit.

Agreed.