One in Five Germans Wants the Berlin Wall Back

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-09-08 01:47pm

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-09-08 02:10pm

Yes, I read that, too.

And I fully support it. They shouldn't have been allowed into West-germany, to begin with. Cost a shitload of money (~800 billion Euros...) and didn't get us anywhere.
There whiny, ungrateful and mentally still stuck in their old socialist old times...

Thinkmarble · Post by **Thinkmarble** » 2004-09-08 02:20pm

Dahak wrote: There whiny, ungrateful and mentally still stuck in their old socialist old times...

How many Ossis do you actually know ?

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2004-09-08 02:21pm

If you think the Ossies are bad just imagine how the North Koreans will be for South Korea of the DPRK collapses like the GDR did and the country unifies. North Korea is a lot poorer than East Germany ever was.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2004-09-08 02:22pm

IIRC, the estimate would be in the trillions to bring the DPRK up to ROK standards.

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2004-09-08 03:07pm

Not to mention far more brainwashed than anyone in DDR. Most DPRK fugetives have very serious problems adapting to life in the south.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-09-08 03:14pm

Thinkmarble wrote:
Dahak wrote: There whiny, ungrateful and mentally still stuck in their old socialist old times...
How many Ossis do you actually know ?

Several, in fact.
And a family that actually left the GDR before the fall. They don't have the highest opinion of their former fellows.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-09-08 03:30pm

Even if every last citizen of the former GDR were a fine and noble fellow the fact remains that the reunification as it was done was doomed to fail.
You can't just merge two countries with economic disparities like that and expect it to work. Well, guess what-it didn't work.
No wonder people are disgruntled.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-09-08 03:35pm

Batman wrote:Even if every last citizen of the former GDR were a fine and noble fellow the fact remains that the reunification as it was done was doomed to fail.
You can't just merge two countries with economic disparities like that and expect it to work. Well, guess what-it didn't work.
No wonder people are disgruntled.

They just tricked when the re-unificated.
Originally, as it was written in our Basic Law, said Basic Law only was supposed to be valid until such a time when the German people became one again.
The then government didn't want to dispose our constitution, so they just said the former GDR was "incorporated" into the FDR, at the same time keeping the old constitution.
And numerous other bad decisions.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2004-09-08 08:11pm

Dahak wrote:Yes, I read that, too.

And I fully support it. They shouldn't have been allowed into West-germany, to begin with. Cost a shitload of money (~800 billion Euros...) and didn't get us anywhere.
There whiny, ungrateful and mentally still stuck in their old socialist old times...

oh, shut up, you generalizing idiot.

Phil Skayhan · Post by **Phil Skayhan** » 2004-09-08 10:56pm

About three months ago, I had a German engineer (I estimate his age to be around 50) at my bar. He was the first person I ever heard say, "Sometimes, I wish the wall had never come down."

He went on to explain that the cost of cleaning up the enviormental disasters (his words) of the DDR's industries was placing an enourmous economic burden on the country. The disgust in his voice was plain. But he also said he couldn't imagine not continuing the clean-up work.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2004-09-08 11:05pm

Cheap Labour can be an advantage, especially in an export driven economy like Germany's, the problem is that the German Labour market is so heavily regulated an employer would have to be insane to choose to build a factory in Germany when there is fertile land in Poland and other new EU members.

Germany desperately needs a Thatcher (as do the French) to rip down the regulation and allow a new economy to be built up along more sensible lines.
The Woman may have been a monomaniacal tyrant but at least she got the job done (and then some).

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-09-09 02:00am

1 in 5? Unbelievable.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2004-09-09 02:08am

Sounds to me like both sides are whining gimps. Germany will just have to get rid of the economic regulatory BS, pull their socks up and work harder.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2004-09-09 05:14am

Phil Skayhan wrote:About three months ago, I had a German engineer (I estimate his age to be around 50) at my bar. He was the first person I ever heard say, "Sometimes, I wish the wall had never come down."

He went on to explain that the cost of cleaning up the enviormental disasters (his words) of the DDR's industries was placing an enourmous economic burden on the country. The disgust in his voice was plain. But he also said he couldn't imagine not continuing the clean-up work.

sadly there appear to be loads of these greedy bastards who´d build the wall back up. they´re porbably right, when they say that we´d be off better financially if we still had it but personally i don´t think that a small financial advantage could compensate the fact that an entire country is now free instead of blocked off from half of the world. that´s a thing i´m willing to pay for.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-09-09 09:12am

*sings*

"Bauuuut die Mauuuuuer auf! Baut die Mauer auf!
Maaaacht nen' Deeeckel drauf! Macht nen' Deckel drauf!"

Just to give a example:

The city I live in (~225.000 population) was directly at the border to east Germany. Todays there is EXTREME anger at small towns 1-2 km east, which use the money they get to ruin our city's economy by seeling land at only 1/10 of the west price. That way they pull companies out of city, bleeding out our economy.

Trust me, none of the politicians from the towns in the east dare to enter our city, because the anger is big. Also, people who not wanted to live in the city and pay taxes there, and therefore moves to the east just over the city limits are unwelcome. Because they not pay taxes to our city, but still want to have all the citys services. They are seen as parasites.

Post by **Edi** » 2004-09-09 09:22am

Tribun wrote:They are seen as parasites.

Quite correctly, too.

Edi

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-09-09 10:15am

salm wrote:
Dahak wrote:Yes, I read that, too.

And I fully support it. They shouldn't have been allowed into West-germany, to begin with. Cost a shitload of money (~800 billion Euros...) and didn't get us anywhere.
There whiny, ungrateful and mentally still stuck in their old socialist old times...
oh, shut up, you generalizing idiot.

We dump them with money. What do we get? Whining.
When the government does a reform that will affect the WEST Germans more in all fairness, what do they do? Whine.
Without western money, the East would die away pretty fast. I don't like good money thrown into the furnace just have some warm fuzzy feelings.

It was a mistake, and a costly one at that.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-09-09 10:41am

What about those East Germans born after 1989? Surely the younger generation is different?

AniThyng · Post by **AniThyng** » 2004-09-09 11:27am

Vympel wrote:What about those East Germans born after 1989? Surely the younger generation is different?

even if they were, they're still a little too young to affect the way thier parents are doing things aren't they...

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-09-09 11:40am

Yeah. So just wait a while. The whining will end.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2004-09-09 12:24pm

Dahak wrote: We dump them with money. What do we get? Whining.
When the government does a reform that will affect the WEST Germans more in all fairness, what do they do? Whine.
Without western money, the East would die away pretty fast. I don't like good money thrown into the furnace just have some warm fuzzy feelings.

It was a mistake, and a costly one at that.

some whine. they´re assholes. others don´t. just quit the generalizing.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-09-09 12:30pm

salm wrote:
Dahak wrote: We dump them with money. What do we get? Whining.
When the government does a reform that will affect the WEST Germans more in all fairness, what do they do? Whine.
Without western money, the East would die away pretty fast. I don't like good money thrown into the furnace just have some warm fuzzy feelings.

It was a mistake, and a costly one at that.
some whine. they´re assholes. others don´t. just quit the generalizing.

It is the majority of eastern people.
Otherwise you wouldn't get the incredible high numbers of votes for the PDS. They're even leading in Brandenburg...
That you have an silent minority doesn't mean I will stop to point at those whiny little dipshits who think they're still living in the all-providing welfare state.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-09-09 03:36pm

salm wrote: sadly there appear to be loads of these greedy bastards who´d build the wall back up. they´re porbably right, when they say that we´d be off better financially if we still had it but personally i don´t think that a small financial advantage could compensate the fact that an entire country is now free instead of blocked off from half of the world. that´s a thing i´m willing to pay for.

Too bad that that would have happened anyway. What freed the GDR was NOT the reunification with West Germany but the demise of the USSR. They would have been a free country regardless.
The merely would have been a separate free country as opposed to part of the FRG.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-09-09 06:18pm

Batman wrote:
salm wrote: sadly there appear to be loads of these greedy bastards who´d build the wall back up. they´re porbably right, when they say that we´d be off better financially if we still had it but personally i don´t think that a small financial advantage could compensate the fact that an entire country is now free instead of blocked off from half of the world. that´s a thing i´m willing to pay for.
Too bad that that would have happened anyway. What freed the GDR was NOT the reunification with West Germany but the demise of the USSR. They would have been a free country regardless.
The merely would have been a separate free country as opposed to part of the FRG.

A seperate dying country. The GDR was already in the endphase of it's life, when the events of 1989 happened. The economy was a wreck, politics even worse, ecology in shrambles and people leving it in the tens of thousands.

Trust me, east Germany hadn't had a chance.