Rant: Bush on MTV's 'Choose or Lose: 20 Million Loud'

Post by **Zaia** » 2004-09-08 07:29pm

I am so digusted. I am currently appalled with the American people, specifically the ones who have gone out to watch Bush speak on the road.

FYI about the show, Gideon Yago, one of the veejays at MTV, attended pep rallies and campaign events for both Bush and Kerry, and the clips they showed of Bush's speeches and the responses Gideon got from the people attending these rallies is driving me fucking insane.

Bush supporters say the biggest reason young people should vote for Bush is that he remember September 11th and acted on his promise to do "whatever it takes" for that act of terrorism, and celebrate his war in Iraq because he was 'doing something.' Last time I checked, Osama and Sadaam are not the same person. Why does Bush get credit for doing something against someone that wasn't responsible for 9/11?! Does the average American person think that one middle Eastern bad guy is the same as another middle Eastern bad guy? Is it just a technicality that Bush went after the wrong one, since they both live in the same area? It just reeks of racism to me.

How on earth do people think Bush had no choice but to go to war against someone who wasn't on our country's radar until he was put there by Bush himself? I literally remember doing a double-take the first time I heard on the news about going after Sadaam. I remember talking to the TV. "Sadaam? Sadaam?! What about Osama? Did I miss something?"

Kerry accepted a one-on-one interview with Gideon, talking about student loan help, troops in Iraq, and increasing jobs. Bush declined an interview, saying he didn't have time due to scheduling conflicts, so McCain took the interview instead. Direct quote from the interview: "McCain: Because of President Bush's leadership after September 11th. You know, in case there's a serious war, it ain't going to be an old geezer like me that goes to fight it, it's going to be our [young people]. And we need to stay out of a war, and the best way we can stay out of a war is having strong leadership and good people." If I'm voting to stay out of a war, am I going to vote Bush? Hell fucking no.

(Transcripts of both interviews can be found here for McCain and here for Kerry.)

You can't get a good enough picture about the American public who went out to attend the rallies just from reading the interview transcripts, though, especially Bush's. Someone actually asked Bush, "Are you Christian?" And someone else stood up at one of the Q&A gatherings, a 60-year-old lifelong Republican, and said, "I've been voting Republican all my life, but only now do I get the feeling that God is in the White House."

Stupid fucking idiots! Get your heads out of your asses and LEARN SOMETHING about these guys and what they stand for! Jesus Christ, they have no fucking clue.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-09-08 08:07pm

Truly it's things like this that Kerry's men should have long ago pounced upon.

If he wants to win, he needs to actually campaign. Because even as bad as Bush is, he has supporters.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-09-08 08:44pm

What is this rant doing in here? Post it in N&P, there is some discussion merit to it, you'd be shortchanging yourself by leaving it in Testing.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-09-08 08:46pm

I'll just move it to N&P.

Hope your don't mind, Zaia

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-08 08:53pm

Stupid fucking idiots! Get your heads out of your asses and LEARN SOMETHING about these guys and what they stand for! Jesus Christ, they have no fucking clue.

Unfortunately, they do have a clue about what they're voting for. And that scares me.

I'm still sorry for supporting Bush, well just about ever. And those sort of people are a big part of the reason.

Post by **Zaia** » 2004-09-08 09:37pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Stupid fucking idiots! Get your heads out of your asses and LEARN SOMETHING about these guys and what they stand for! Jesus Christ, they have no fucking clue.
Unfortunately, they do have a clue about what they're voting for. And that scares me.

How can you say they know what they're voting for if the main reason (according to Bush's own people) they are impressed with Bush is because he "did what had to be done" after September 11th when what he did HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT HAPPENED ON SEPTEMBER 11TH! Sadaam = Osama? I don't think so! They're not the same guy! These young Bush supporters at these rallies seem to think that Bush's war had something to do with September 11th. It didn't! They see it as a retaliation against the terrorists who attacked us. It wasn't! Sadaam didn't organized the September 11th attacks. How can they know what they're voting for if they don't understand the main push of his re-election campaign?

They don't care. I have no idea how or why it's ok with them, but they don't care if they understand...

(Sorry, Stormie, not really yelling at you--I had this in Testing so I can yell in all caps and not bother anyone.)

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-09-08 09:45pm

Perhaps we should have 18 year olds take a political awareness test. If they can't answer a series of questions about how the American electorate process works, then I'll bet good money they aren't informed voters.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-09-08 09:47pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Perhaps we should have 18 year olds take a political awareness test. If they can't answer a series of questions about how the American electorate process works, then I'll bet good money they aren't informed voters.

NO. They tried this crap on blacks prior to the civil rights movement and it is FAR too easily abused by the test proctors.

Post by **Zaia** » 2004-09-08 09:47pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Perhaps we should have 18 year olds take a political awareness test. If they can't answer a series of questions about how the American electorate process works, then I'll bet good money they aren't informed voters.

Why only 18-year-olds? I'll bet most Americans couldn't pass a test like that.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2004-09-08 09:56pm

A better test: Ask them the names of the candidates, and the central points of their respective platforms (e.g. "Kerry is running on... uhhh... health care reform!"). If they haven't kept up, they don't vote.

Of course, we could always go by Heinlein's recommendation that every voter be required to work a quadratic equation...

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-09-08 09:56pm

That scares me too, just how many people vote on things like that. What's worse are the people who grab one economic figure and then pretend like it's everything.

For instance, I've recently heard a person going on about how Bush is getting America back to work based off the 5.4% unemployment rate and the 144,000 jobs added. That sounds great... right? Well, until you look at the numbers. Unemployment rates did drop, but you've got to understand what unemployment. It doesn't merely mean a person who doesn't have a job, "unemployment" has a much narrower definition, which in simplified terms is a person who is in the job market who doesn't have a job and is actively seeking one ("actively seeking one" being further broken down by economic arcana). However, there is a problem with that. The rate of people moving from "unemployed" to what is called "discouraged workers" skyrocketed by hundreds of thousands of people, to the tune a million, I've heard at that same count. A "discouraged worker" is a person who is doesn't have a job but doesn't meet the definition of "unemployed", and are treated in as if they don't exist. In other words, they stopped counting close to a million people when they made that estimate.

Furthermore, in reality, you've got to factor in population growth. 144,000 jobs created in a month sounds nice, but when you factor in people entering the job market, it's barely braking even. When it comes to population growth, in a four year term, more to 7 million jobs need to be created at match population growth. President Bush is currently in negative numbers at the moment.

In addition, good economic indicators are average hours per week rates and purchases on durable goods. Both are down significantly, and the former has been for three years... something that hasn't happened since the Great Depression.

Things look a bit uglier when you look below the surface, but people don't like to do that when it comes to their candidate.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-08 09:58pm

Zaia wrote:(Sorry, Stormie, not really yelling at you--I had this in Testing so I can yell in all caps and not bother anyone.)

That's okay. I supported some of that and I regret it deeply now and have been more and more.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-09-08 10:54pm

The Kernel wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:Perhaps we should have 18 year olds take a political awareness test. If they can't answer a series of questions about how the American electorate process works, then I'll bet good money they aren't informed voters.
NO. They tried this crap on blacks prior to the civil rights movement and it is FAR too easily abused by the test proctors.

Gee, if I was being completely ernest in my suggestion, I would be offended.

But I'm not. I just feel that the average 18 year old (on up to about ~25 or higher, even) doesn't know jack all about the politcal situation, and they vote depending on who they think is 'cool' or something like that.

Meest · Post by **Meest** » 2004-09-08 11:04pm

I think people are acting like mindless sheep because they are literally scared out of their minds. Add in a little dose of people being fucking morons and you got recipe for Bush to lead and win. I'm sure this is a dream for the people behind his campaigns, watching people react so predictably. I heard somewhere the majority of people in the states actually believed Iraq could be a threat to America in a conventional military sense, its just retarded, people are retarded, that's only conclusion I can come up with. Anyone with half a brain can see right through the bullshit.

I also think deep down inside people wouldn't mind being Bush. Big business connections, your family basically set for life and being powerfull, at the expense of alot of other people. I believe people would choose being a corporate whore than live an average life.

sketerpot · Post by **sketerpot** » 2004-09-08 11:14pm

Elheru Aran wrote:A better test: Ask them the names of the candidates, and the central points of their respective platforms (e.g. "Kerry is running on... uhhh... health care reform!"). If they haven't kept up, they don't vote.

Of course, we could always go by Heinlein's recommendation that every voter be required to work a quadratic equation...

It's simple to use an easily-smuggled calculator for that. Hell, you don't even need a CAS to solve that one; just a simple quadratic formula program that I can whip up from memory in five minutes could solve quadratic equations, and anybody can learn to work the program. Therefore, you need to vary things, and the variation would be far too easy to tamper with; what if women got all the hard problems?

It's so appealing, though....

Post by **Zaia** » 2004-09-08 11:32pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:But I'm not. I just feel that the average 18 year old (on up to about ~25 or higher, even) doesn't know jack all about the politcal situation, and they vote depending on who they think is 'cool' or something like that.

Yeah, but it was the 60-year-old guy who commented that he felt the presence of God in the White House for the first time in his voting years with G.W. in there. What the fuck kind of test do we issue to get those weirdos educated?

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-09-08 11:37pm

Zaia wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:But I'm not. I just feel that the average 18 year old (on up to about ~25 or higher, even) doesn't know jack all about the politcal situation, and they vote depending on who they think is 'cool' or something like that.
Yeah, but it was the 60-year-old guy who commented that he felt the presence of God in the White House for the first time in his voting years with G.W. in there. What the fuck kind of test do we issue to get those weirdos educated?

A variation of the 'trial of combat' in which we put him in the arena with a gladiator. If his god is strong enough to allow him to leave the arena alive (two men enter, one man leaves) then he can vote.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-08 11:54pm

Zaia wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:But I'm not. I just feel that the average 18 year old (on up to about ~25 or higher, even) doesn't know jack all about the politcal situation, and they vote depending on who they think is 'cool' or something like that.
Yeah, but it was the 60-year-old guy who commented that he felt the presence of God in the White House for the first time in his voting years with G.W. in there. What the fuck kind of test do we issue to get those weirdos educated?

There's nothing we can do, at least not in a democracy.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-09-09 12:04am

Knife wrote:
Zaia wrote:Yeah, but it was the 60-year-old guy who commented that he felt the presence of God in the White House for the first time in his voting years with G.W. in there. What the fuck kind of test do we issue to get those weirdos educated?
A variation of the 'trial of combat' in which we put him in the arena with a gladiator. If his god is strong enough to allow him to leave the arena alive (two men enter, one man leaves) then he can vote.

What is this, Thunderdome?

I think it would be rather amusing if Penn and Teller started doing those interviews, with commentary.

Frankly, many people aren't all that smart. Not just kids. And since people are the voters, it isn't suprising that they're going to be uninformed. I just wish that they would be called on it more.

As for Saddam and 9/11, remember that a year ago about 70% of adults thought there was a connection.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2004-09-09 01:21am

There was still smoke rising from the WTC site when I told the people around me that we were going to war with Iraq again. When they pointed out that it didn't look like Saddam did it, I told them it didn't matter.

Thanas · Post by **Thanas** » 2004-09-10 09:56pm

When I went to the USA for the first time, I viewed it as a country full of friendly people. They didn't know much about culture or had an extensive knowledge of culture, yet they were the most friendly people I've ever met.
Now I am wondering when they changed into a bunch of scared nationalists.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2004-09-10 11:25pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Gee, if I was being completely ernest in my suggestion, I would be offended.

But I'm not. I just feel that the average 18 year old (on up to about ~25 or higher, even) doesn't know jack all about the politcal situation, and they vote depending on who they think is 'cool' or something like that.

I wouldn't say thats true of just young people; most everyone is politically ignorant, because (hear the founding fathers cry) people just don't fucking care. Most people seem to treat their political party alliegiance-y thing as a fucking sports team they support, and thats all. People don't actually seem to understand how the whole 'you elect someone, they fuck you over, you elect them again, you're a fucking moron' thing works. I'm an Australian, and our asstard of a PM claims this election will be about 'honesty' (largely, I imagine, because he's broken everything in the country already)... this is the same guy that has been elected on particularly platforms, and then immediately done the opposite. And yet people vote for him! Because of what he says! Because they always vote Liberal, or whatever. Its fucking STUPID. AND then they complain bout how everythings terrible... but as soon as 'election mode' kicks in, they're loyal Liberal supporters again. Seriously, my frustration with the democratic system couldn't get higher.

Christ. Rant off.

Post by **Zaia** » 2004-09-12 12:18pm

Thanas wrote:When I went to the USA for the first time, I viewed it as a country full of friendly people. They didn't know much about culture or had an extensive knowledge of culture, yet they were the most friendly people I've ever met.
Now I am wondering when they changed into a bunch of scared nationalists.

On the person-to-person level, we're probably some of the warmest, friendliest people on the planet. Many of my friends from other countries have said as much when they've come to visit the U.S. However, as a nation, in regards to the rest of the world, we've essentially been programmed to be terrified of everything and everyone. Well, except for Canada.