New records: Bush skipped duty, his record was whitewashed

[TrailerParkJawa]

The Republicans are handling this campaign far better then the Democrats. If the Republicans hammer Kerry on Vietnam he needs to be brutal and simply ask out loud " GEORGE BUSH, why did you not volunteer to go to Vietnam and defend your country? "

The Republicans are playing the fear factory, they've got half of American believing the war in Iraq is the same war against Osama. Anyone notice they have not mentioned Osama at all lately? Kerry should hammer this home too.

[Robert Walper]

You're down six points, there are 15 seconds left to play, and you're on your own 10 yard line. Do you play it safe, or go deep?

Hmm, he's not in that bad of shape, there's still two full months left. It's more like he's down a touchdown at the bottom of the 3rd quarter and his star running back just got injured.

Personally, I think the situation is much more grave than that. It's been said that Americans hate a loser, and he's looking like a loser. There is a sense that his campaign is circling the drain, and it's a reasonable point to make: if he can't run a strong campaign, how the fuck can he run a strong nation? He has to do something NOW.

I read something along those lines in a magazine the other day. Americans would rather have a strong and forceful leader who is wrong as opposed to a weak and indecisive one who is right. Couple that with the fact politics is anything but black and white, and you begin to realize the peril Kerry's campaign is in.

[Darth Wong]

From CNN again, more quotes:

Memos Show Bush Suspended From Flying
By PETE YOST

WASHINGTON (AP) - Newly unearthed memos state George W. Bush was suspended from flying for the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam war because he failed to meet Guard standards and failed to take his annual flight physical as required.

The suspension came as Bush was trying to arrange a transfer to non-flying status with a unit in Alabama so he could work on a political campaign there.

A memo written a year later referred to one military official ``pushing to sugar coat'' Bush's annual evaluation.

``On this date I ordered that 1st Lt. Bush be suspended from flight status due to failure to perform to USAF/TexANG standards and failure to meet annual physical examination ... as ordered,'' says an Aug. 1, 1972 memo by Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, who is now dead.

The same memo notes that Bush was trying to transfer to non-flying status out of state and recommends that the Texas unit fill his flying slot ``with a more seasoned pilot from the list of qualified Vietnam pilots that have rotated.''

The Vietnam-era documents add details to the bare-bones explanation of Bush's aides over the years that he was suspended simply because he decided to skip his flight physical.

The White House said in February that it had released all records of Bush's service, but one of Killian's memos stated it was ``for record'' and another directing Bush to take the physical exam stated that it was ``for 1st Lt. George W. Bush.''

``I can't explain why that wouldn't be in his record, but they were found in Jerry Killian's personal records,'' White House communications director Dan Bartlett told CBS's ``60 Minutes II,'' which first obtained the memos.

Bartlett said Bush's superiors granted permission to train in Alabama in a non-flying status and that ``many of the documents you have here affirm just that.''

A memo dated May 19, 1972, five days after Bush was supposed to have completed his physical, summarizes a telephone discussion with Bush about how he ``can get out of coming to drill from now through November.'' It says Bush was ``told he could do ET for three months or transfer.'' ET referred to equivalent training, a procedure for meeting training requirements without attending regularly scheduled drills.

The same memo says ``we talked abut him getting his flight physical situation fixed'' and quotes Bush as saying he would ``do that in Alabama if he stays in a flight status.'' It also says, I advised him of our investment in him and his commitment.''

Democratic Party chairman Terry McAuliffe said, ``George W. Bush's cover story on his National Guard service is rapidly unraveling. ... George W. Bush needs to answer why he regularly mislead the American people about his time in the Guard and who applied political pressure on his behalf to have his performance reviews 'sugarcoated'''

Bartlett told CBS, ``As it says in your own documents, President Bush talked to the commanders about the fact that he'd be transferring to a unit ... in Alabama that didn't fly that plane,'' the F-102, the type Bush was trained in.

Using only last names, one of the newly disclosed documents points to sharp disagreement among Bush's superiors in Texas over how to evaluate his performance for the period from mid-1972 through mid-1973.

``Stuart has obviously pressured Hedges more about Bush,'' Killian wrote on Aug. 18, 1973. ``I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job - Harris gave me a message today from Grip (a headquarters unit) regarding Bush's OETR (officer efficiency training report) and Stuart is pushing to sugar coat it. Bush wasn't here during rating period and I don't have any comments from 187th in Alabama. I will not rate.''

The memo concludes: ``Harris took the call from Grip today. I'll backdate but won't rate. Harris agrees.''

At the time, Walter B. Stuart was commander of the Texas National Guard; Lt. Col. Bobby Hedges was one of Bush's superiors in Texas who two years earlier had rated Bush an outstanding young pilot; and Lt. Col. William D. Harris Jr. was another superior of Bush's.

Records released this year when Bush's military service re-emerged as a campaign issue contain no evidence that he showed up for duty at all for five months in mid-1972 and document only a few occasions later that year.

Asked about Killian's statement in a memo about the military's investment in Bush, Bartlett told CBS: ``For anybody to try to interpret or presume they know what somebody who is now dead was thinking in any of these memos, I think is very difficult to do.''

09/09/04 06:15

Direct evidence that people in the chain of command were pressured to "sugar-coat" Bush's record. Are any of the people who defended Bush's record and ridiculed opposition claims that people tried to whitewash it going to own up and admit error at this point?

PS. And to answer the inevitable retort, I am aware that these events took place 35 years ago. But (and here's the important part) Bush's lies about these events took place much more recently, and are still ongoing.

[Robert Walper]

PS. And to answer the inevitable retort, I am aware that these events took place 35 years ago. But (and here's the important part) Bush's lies about these events took place much more recently, and are still ongoing.

A politician lying? My god man, you can't be serious!?

[Darth Wong]

PS. And to answer the inevitable retort, I am aware that these events took place 35 years ago. But (and here's the important part) Bush's lies about these events took place much more recently, and are still ongoing.

A politician lying? My god man, you can't be serious!?

The comment was addressed to the various bullshit artists who claim that he WASN'T lying.

[Robert Walper]

PS. And to answer the inevitable retort, I am aware that these events took place 35 years ago. But (and here's the important part) Bush's lies about these events took place much more recently, and are still ongoing.

A politician lying? My god man, you can't be serious!?

The comment was addressed to the various bullshit artists who claim that he WASN'T lying.

Politicians inevitably have their fanatical supporters, and their fanatical adversaries. I'm not attempting to suggest in any way you are fanatical in your adversity towards Bush, but I presume it's safe to say you don't hold him in high regard(to put it loosely)?

Out of curiousity (and hopefully no misinterpretion of this as a thread hijack), what is your general opinion of Bush? I'm completely new to the News and Politics forum(never much bothered before), and I'm curious as to your opinion of him, his policies and actions to date. Is it just specific issues you disagree with, or pretty much his entire political outlook/plans?

[Darth Wong]

Politicians inevitably have their fanatical supporters, and their fanatical adversaries. I'm not attempting to suggest in any way you are fanatical in your adversity towards Bush, but I presume it's safe to say you don't hold him in high regard(to put it loosely)?

Out of curiousity (and hopefully no misinterpretion of this as a thread hijack), what is your general opinion of Bush? I'm completely new to the News and Politics forum(never much bothered before), and I'm curious as to your opinion of him, his policies and actions to date. Is it just specific issues you disagree with, or pretty much his entire political outlook/plans?

Hmmm, let's see:

1) Knee-jerk militarist
2) Rabid fundamentalist
3) Rabid homophobe
4) Relentless advocate for the exclusive interests of the wealthy
5) Friend of Microsoft
6) Promotes "laissez-faire" brand of capitalism
7) Squelches scientific research
8) Promotes Puritan social agenda
9) Opponent of civil rights
10) Fiscally reckless

Does the man actually have any good points? Kerry may be a douchebag, but I don't see how he can be any worse.

EDIT: fixed formatting by turning off smilies

[Patrick Degan]

Does the man actually have any good points? Kerry may be a douchebag, but I don't see how he can be any worse.

That'd make one hell of a campaign slogan.

[Durandal]

Does the man actually have any good points? Kerry may be a douchebag, but I don't see how he can be any worse.

That'd make one hell of a campaign slogan.

You mean like www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.com ?

[Robert Walper]

Hmmm, let's see:

1) Knee-jerk militarist
2) Rabid fundamentalist
3) Rabid homophobe
4) Relentless advocate for the exclusive interests of the wealthy
5) Friend of Microsoft
6) Promotes "laissez-faire" brand of capitalism
7) Squelches scientific research
8.) Promotes Puritan social agenda
9) Opponent of civil rights
10) Fiscally reckless

Does the man actually have any good points? Kerry may be a douchebag, but I don't see how he can be any worse.

EDIT: fixed formatting by turning off smilies

Well, you certainly possess alot more intel on him than I do.

I don't know enough about Bush, or even politics in general, to form much of an educated opinion. *shrugs* (That's admittedly a serious problem with the young generation of today, but then my personal perspective on life isn't compatible with actually caring)

Thanks for responding though. Will give me further insight when reading in the forum, noteably your responses and opinions.