STGOD 4 OOC Thread (part 2)

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-09-09 06:17pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Yes, now how about addressing my proof that no Alliance ships could possibly have been in Monacoran space? Everyone knows now where that task force actually was; in order for it to get to Elysium it would have had to be long gone from Known Space by the time that fleet was supposedly filmed, and everything else was in port at the time, though that's rapidly going to change.

In game I'd be willing to hand over the sensor data. It's incontrivertable proof that there were what we identified as Luke Class destroyers/frigates in our space.

OOC: It was a computer that had been installed for war-games that had a glitch in it that allowed it to 'accidently' be triggered to simulate enemy ships. BUT you don't know that, nor would you know that unless you had the chance to rip apart that particular ship. Something, as you might guess, we wouldn't be to glad to let you have.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-09 06:18pm

Bugsby wrote:OOOh, Rogue, you wascally wabbit.

Yeah sure, Bugs.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-09 06:19pm

Hey, Alyrium! For fuck's sake. Bombardment missiles can work at WELL outside the ranges antiship missiles can. Your "3 Thousand" missiles firing at almost teh accuracy of capship missiles will almost all miss. It will be child's play to dodge them as they run out of fuel and are forced to track via lightspeed methods at those ranges.

Don't be dense. Your missile fire will be quite weak.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-09 06:19pm

Straha wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:Yes, now how about addressing my proof that no Alliance ships could possibly have been in Monacoran space? Everyone knows now where that task force actually was; in order for it to get to Elysium it would have had to be long gone from Known Space by the time that fleet was supposedly filmed, and everything else was in port at the time, though that's rapidly going to change.
In game I'd be willing to hand over the sensor data. It's incontrivertable proof that there were what we identified as Luke Class destroyers/frigates in our space.

OOC: It was a computer that had been installed for war-games that had a glitch in it that allowed it to 'accidently' be triggered to simulate enemy ships. BUT you don't know that, nor would you know that unless you had the chance to rip apart that particular ship. Something, as you might guess, we wouldn't be to glad to let you have.

That doesn't change the fact that for the sensor data to be correct, we'd have to have more ships than we actually do. Since ships don't appear out of nowhere, but sensor logs can be fabricated, guess which evidence stands stronger.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-09 06:20pm

Rogue, what reason would ANY of the Unification have to believe your records?

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-09-09 06:21pm

Thirdfain wrote:Hey, Alyrium! For fuck's sake. Bombardment missiles can work at WELL outside the ranges antiship missiles can. Your "3 Thousand" missiles firing at almost teh accuracy of capship missiles will almost all miss. It will be child's play to dodge them as they run out of fuel and are forced to track via lightspeed methods at those ranges.

Don't be dense. Your missile fire will be quite weak.

They are esigned to work on that contingency. And as they go ballstic, they become rather difficult to detect.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-09-09 06:23pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
Straha wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:Yes, now how about addressing my proof that no Alliance ships could possibly have been in Monacoran space? Everyone knows now where that task force actually was; in order for it to get to Elysium it would have had to be long gone from Known Space by the time that fleet was supposedly filmed, and everything else was in port at the time, though that's rapidly going to change.
In game I'd be willing to hand over the sensor data. It's incontrivertable proof that there were what we identified as Luke Class destroyers/frigates in our space.

OOC: It was a computer that had been installed for war-games that had a glitch in it that allowed it to 'accidently' be triggered to simulate enemy ships. BUT you don't know that, nor would you know that unless you had the chance to rip apart that particular ship. Something, as you might guess, we wouldn't be to glad to let you have.
That doesn't change the fact that for the sensor data to be correct, we'd have to have more ships than we actually do. Since ships don't appear out of nowhere, but sensor logs can be fabricated, guess which evidence stands stronger.

My intelligence service knows that, your intelligence service knows that, the UP naval command knows that, but do our populaces know that through the fog of war? No. The entire thing is a fabrication, but if you try to deny it we'll call you bloody genocidal liars. Sometime afterwards there's going to be an investigation into this and we'll discover that WHOOPS it's all a big mistake, but untill then we're at war.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-09-09 06:23pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
Straha wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:Yes, now how about addressing my proof that no Alliance ships could possibly have been in Monacoran space? Everyone knows now where that task force actually was; in order for it to get to Elysium it would have had to be long gone from Known Space by the time that fleet was supposedly filmed, and everything else was in port at the time, though that's rapidly going to change.
In game I'd be willing to hand over the sensor data. It's incontrivertable proof that there were what we identified as Luke Class destroyers/frigates in our space.

OOC: It was a computer that had been installed for war-games that had a glitch in it that allowed it to 'accidently' be triggered to simulate enemy ships. BUT you don't know that, nor would you know that unless you had the chance to rip apart that particular ship. Something, as you might guess, we wouldn't be to glad to let you have.
That doesn't change the fact that for the sensor data to be correct, we'd have to have more ships than we actually do. Since ships don't appear out of nowhere, but sensor logs can be fabricated, guess which evidence stands stronger.

My intelligence service knows that, your intelligence service knows that, the UP naval command knows that, but do our populaces know that through the fog of war? No. The entire thing is a fabrication, but if you try to deny it we'll call you bloody genocidal liars. Sometime afterwards there's going to be an investigation into this and we'll discover that WHOOPS it's all a big mistake, but untill then we're at war.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-09 06:23pm

They are esigned to work on that contingency. And as they go ballstic, they become rather difficult to detect.

And USELESS. Without guidance, at those ranges, they will have almost no chance of scoring a hit.

I mean, seriosuly. You are targetting with lightspeed emissions detection (and if you think this fleet isn't so stuffed with assorted radiowave drones and jammers, you are stupid) and attempting to guide the missiles from extreme range.

Your capship missile barrage will be pretty damn useless. Planets are EASY targets. Starships are HARD targets.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-09-09 06:24pm

Whoops, double post. Will some kind mod please delete one of those, and this one?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-09 06:24pm

Thirdfain wrote:Rogue, what reason would ANY of the Unification have to believe your records?

They can believe any number of independent traders or even their own people, then. Pinnacle and Praetor are trade conduits as well as military bases, and Joyous Gard has convoy escorts run out of it and doesn't have any heavy ships. I'm sure that the rest of the Alliance's base worlds are where independent spacers can see them as well. Further, what reason would they have to believe that we would be so unbelievably stupid as to rally inside their space for no apparent reason? After all, we launched no attack on any Monacoran territory and there'd be no other reason for us to stage the fleet there. If it was there, I ask, where did it go?

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-09-09 06:24pm

Nothing saying we cant make an attempt with a volley or so. Just to see what these Krell ships can do(we have never encountered them in battle either)

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-09-09 06:25pm

Thirdfain wrote:Hey, Alyrium! For fuck's sake. Bombardment missiles can work at WELL outside the ranges antiship missiles can. Your "3 Thousand" missiles firing at almost teh accuracy of capship missiles will almost all miss. It will be child's play to dodge them as they run out of fuel and are forced to track via lightspeed methods at those ranges.

Don't be dense. Your missile fire will be quite weak.

Well, at the tech level, we can at least expect the missiles to have normal FTL sensors as well. They don't seem to be quite spacious...

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-09 06:26pm

Nothing saying we cant make an attempt with a volley or so. Just to see what these Krell ships can do(we have never encountered them in battle either)

It's a futile gesture, which will reveal the positions of your defense satalites, but OK. don't expect to score any kills.

Oh, and missiles MISSING the planet? WTF? You've got to be kidding.

Planetary Defense is there to slow the enemy down, not take on fleets the likes of which the Krell are launching (unless you devote portions of your starting fleet strength to uber planetary defenses.)

Don't be ridiculous.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-09-09 06:27pm

What, dont think a few of them will miss? 100% accuracy my ass.

I know they wont stop the fleet, but they can damage it, and weaken it for when my own fleet shows up.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-09 06:28pm

Well, at the tech level, we can at least expect the missiles to have normal FTL sensors as well. They don't seem to be quite spacious...

Of course, but they are heading for the targets based on STL data which is alredy "old news." That means they'll reach a point (at which their fuel stores are running low and they are about to become useless) at which they will have to re-aquire targets with only their tiny missile brains and FTL sensors, without decent data from the big sensors and computers on the launch platform.

Need I point out that once their engines run out, they are no longer capable of maneuver, and will be easy meat for PD fire, if they are even on target at the time?

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-09 06:30pm

I know they wont stop the fleet, but they can damage it, and weaken it for when my own fleet shows up.

Not unless he closes distance.

What, dont think a few of them will miss? 100% accuracy my ass.

He's shooting at a PLANET. We could do it TODAY with neatly 100 % accuracy. don't be stupid.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-09-09 06:30pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:What, dont think a few of them will miss? 100% accuracy my ass.

Aly, walk up to the side of the empire state building, then cross the street so you can still face the center of that face of the building. Then throw a tennis ball at the building. Same principle, only a planet is a lot bigger.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-09-09 06:30pm

You also assume that they will be burning fuel for the entire approach. A missile in a vaccum can coast on momentum, then reactivate the engines upon reaquisition.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-09 06:31pm

Thirdfain wrote:
I know they wont stop the fleet, but they can damage it, and weaken it for when my own fleet shows up.
Not unless he closes distance.

Yes, well having weapons on ships be ridiculously longer ranged than weapons on planetary defenses renders planetary defenses absolutely worthless.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-09-09 06:32pm

Straha wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:What, dont think a few of them will miss? 100% accuracy my ass.
Aly, walk up to the side of the empire state building, then cross the street so you can still face the center of that face of the building. Then throw a tennis ball at the building. Same principle, only a planet is a lot bigger.

Now increa your range to 3 kilometers, and use a cannon. Same principle. You will miss at least on occasion.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-09-09 06:32pm

Thirdfain wrote:
Well, at the tech level, we can at least expect the missiles to have normal FTL sensors as well. They don't seem to be quite spacious...
Of course, but they are heading for the targets based on STL data which is alredy "old news." That means they'll reach a point (at which their fuel stores are running low and they are about to become useless) at which they will have to re-aquire targets with only their tiny missile brains and FTL sensors, without decent data from the big sensors and computers on the launch platform.

Need I point out that once their engines run out, they are no longer capable of maneuver, and will be easy meat for PD fire, if they are even on target at the time?

Your post read like you thought the missiles were only equipped with stl sensors.
Sorry for the confusion...

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-09 06:34pm

Nitpick: Not STL sensors. The sensors, being light-based, are precisely lightspeed.

And at combat ranges for this STGOD, such detection is not "old news" by more than a quarter of a second at the very most.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-09 06:34pm

Now increa your range to 3 kilometers, and use a cannon. Same principle. You will miss at least on occasion.

Except the cannonball is a guided cruise missile, fed targetting data from an advanced computer, in an evironment with predicatble gravity and no wind resistance.

Don;t be retarded. He's shooting at a planet, and while he might not be able to pick out invididual targets, he'l have no problem making sure all rounds hit.

Yes, well having weapons on ships be ridiculously longer ranged than weapons on planetary defenses renders planetary defenses absolutely worthless.

On the contrary. Planetary defenses are doing tehir job right now- keeping the Krell fleet at arm's length.

It's a simple fact of missile warfare- immobile targets are EASY to hit from longer ranges than mobile ones.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-09-09 06:36pm

Straha wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:What, dont think a few of them will miss? 100% accuracy my ass.
Aly, walk up to the side of the empire state building, then cross the street so you can still face the center of that face of the building. Then throw a tennis ball at the building. Same principle, only a planet is a lot bigger.

It's not like the planet could move out of the way...