'60 Minutes' Documents on Bush Might Be Fake

[Durandal]

The easiest thing to do would be to carbon-date the paper and ink.

Um... Radio carbon dating works on that short of time scales?

Not carbon dating, but I'm pretty sure there are forensic methods for determining the authenticity of the ink.

[The Kernel]

The easiest thing to do would be to carbon-date the paper and ink.

Um... Radio carbon dating works on that short of time scales?

Well, it can tell us within a 10 year time frame (which is useful in itself) and also the ink can be test to tell if it is chemically identical to the ink ribbons sold to the military during Bush's military career.

[The Kernel]

Just to add to the above post, for an idea of what can be done to check the authenticity of typewritten documents, just look at the various forensic methods that were used to debunk the MJ-12 document (being the most famous case) and it WAS written on a typewritter, just not one that was quite as old as the ones that would have been in use in the 40's and 50's.

[Durandal]

Phil, I superimposed yours over the original.

I gauged it by matching the 1's in the header as best I could. The scaling seems pretty good, to me.

Phil's is blue; the original is red. Take from this what you will.

Nice job. Interesting, though perhaps unconclusive. They do look strikingly similar, but probably not proof of any wrongdoing.

They don't line up at all though, even when the characters are scaled to match. Even rotating and heavily distorting Phil's reproduction doesn't match up the characters.

Okay, Nightline's on.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I find it funny that they think that proportional spacing was rare in the 1960/1970's.....

shakes head and laughs at idiots...

[Joe]

Nothing we haven't already heard on Nightline.

[Durandal]

Nothing we haven't already heard on Nightline.

No kidding. Seriously, that was it?

"Some people have raised doubts. I'm [a reporter] with ABC Nightline."

[Durandal]

Okay, conspiracy theory time. Let's say the documents are fake. Who faked them? The Left? Nah. Try Bush's campaign.

Think about it for a second. Bush has been under pressure to release more documents about his military service. So at the 11th hour, Bush has some documents very badly forged and inserted into the DoD, and the AP thinks they've found some damning stuff on him. The Leftist pundits quickly seize the opportunity to start the attack. But wait! The documents are false, and really obviously false on top of that!

Now the Left looks like a bunch of idiots for grabbing on to these memos for dear life. The public's patience on the issue of Bush's service during Vietnam is now exhausted with the forgery being exposed, and they see it as a win for Bush, since he overcame a challenge. So Kerry simply cannot bring up the issue without Bush pointing to the obvious forgery which escaped Kerry.

[Beowulf]

More:

ABC News

Connell said Killian did not type, and though he did take notes, they were usually on scraps of paper. "He was a person who did not take copious notes," she said. "He carried everything in his mind."

So Col Killian didn't type, but the 18 AUG 73 memo was written on a Saturday. So, who typed it? Him? He didn't type? His secretary? Most likely home for the weekend.

More comments on the documents themselves:

Why does "F.I.S." have spaces? Every time I've seen a unit abbreviated, there are no periods. TRS, TRG, TRW, SW, AF, SVS, SFS. The military hates periods. This was drilled quite throughly into my head at Basic...
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/Doc20.php Note complete lack of periods in abbreviations

Dates are in the wrong format. See how I wrote 18 Aug above?

Why is a retired Gen pressuring a Col? Staudt retired in 72.

Why is his signature different? We see it three different ways, two amongst these new documents, and completely differently on Bush's request for separation.

Inconsistant abbreviations doesn't explain the NLT. NLT means no later than, so why write it out, and then abbreviate it?

Who is Harris? If he's military, where is his rank?

[JME2]

I agree on a lot of Durandal's points -- this does seem like something the Bushies would pull to spice up the election in their favor. Of course, we'll just have to wait and see what the tests yield, but after the uncertainties of the last four years, I'm not holding my breath on either side. However, if the documents are indeed true, then this puts a wonderful dent in the Dubya's "War President" image.

[SPOOFE]

Now the Left looks like a bunch of idiots for grabbing on to these memos for dear life.

Especially since the Kerry Camp has just spent the past month trying to play the "What happened 30 years ago doesn't matter" card after Kerry's braggadisio antics were revealed.

... Oh, wait, that simply SUPPORTS the notion that the Left is grabbing onto things for dear life!

[Lord Poe]

I agree on a lot of Durandal's points -- this does seem like something the Bushies would pull to spice up the election in their favor. Of course, we'll just have to wait and see what the tests yield, but after the uncertainties of the last four years, I'm not holding my breath on either side.

Please. You can't have it both ways. If the general consensus is that Bushies boldface lied about WMD, knew they'd find nothing, then didn't PLANT any WMDs to find, why would they suddenly fake these documents?

[CJvR]

The Leftist pundits quickly seize the opportunity to start the attack. But wait! The documents are false, and really obviously false on top of that!

And they call Bush an idiot...

[Patrick Ogaard]

Couple comments:

Why is the th that is superscripted smaller than the rest of the font?

Why is the signature block not of the form:

JERRY B. KILLIAN, Lt Col, TexANG

like everyone I've seen do signatures? And like is done in another letter he's written?

Why is NLT written out, and then abbreviated?

The linked wikipedia page has nothing about the Selectric or Selectric II using proportional fonts. There is mention of being able to change the pitch.

As for the WH com director, he's probably just regurgitating what he's heard which is precisely what CBS News is claiming.

The superscripted stuff being smaller would, if the document is legit, be due to the fact that typewriters with superscript keys normally had the superscript characters (like the 1/2 and 1/4 on my Olympia Reporter) in a smaller pitch than the regular characters.

For the NLT being written out and then abbreviated, at least in the Army that's the way it should be if the document had further instances of "no later than," which would be abbreviated to cut down on length. Abbreviations, especially if there is the slightest chance of their being initially misunderstood, are to be written out fully on their first occurrence, with the abbreviation following in parentheses. In any further instances of use of the phrase in the same document, the abbreviation can then be used freely. Of course, typists can be sloppy and apply those standards inconsistently, or where they are unnecessary, which muddies the waters.

[Broomstick]

About those IBM selectrics and proportional fonts....

This is, of course, purely personal testimony. However, back in the mid to late 1970's when I was typing at school and during my first experiences at gainful employment IBM selectrics were staples of the office world. In fact, many people personally owned models, sometimes highly sophisticated versions.

I actually HAVE used a "proportional font" IBM. It was a bitch to have to back up at any time because of that proportional spacing (Huh... let's see, two backs for the "n", two for the "a", three for the "m".... ). But they were out there. Sometimes these highly sophisticated machines ended up in odd places due to donations by corporations to charities, or from higher executive offices in an organization getting new equipment and handing down old stuff to lower levels.

IBM "balls" - properly called "elements" - could be swapped out. The higher end models of typewriters could "read" the font from the attached ball and give you 10, 12, 14 or proportional pitch as required. They also came in a bunch of different fonts. I still have a copy of a program of a play I made in three different fonts using an IBM in 1977.

One of my mother's friends used to do free-lance typing work and had a big "executive" IBM and a box of elements with eighteen different elements in a variety of fonts and pitches.

Elements with scientific notations and/or foreign characters were also available for specialty applications.

I still own a Smith-Corona manual portable that allows the user to pop out certain keys and replace them with specialty keys. So it wasn't just IBM doing this sort of thing.

So the quibbles about fonts proves nothing, except that while these guys may be "expert" collectors I doubt very much they used these things to make their living.

As for the "he wasn't a typist" argument, three words: "hunt and peck". Which could also account for all those other inconsistences in format. He did a lousy job adhering standard formats because he wasn't a trained/experienced typist and in those days the machines didn't help you out any.

The ONLY way to conclusively prove/disprove the authenticity of these documents is to have an expert examine the original documents. In addition to dating paper and ink, you can also look for the distinctive impressions a typewriter leaves on paper as opposed to the marks of a laser printer or inkjet. These impressions, however, are not visible on any photocopy or scan.

[Gil Hamilton]

Nice job. Interesting, though perhaps unconclusive. They do look strikingly similar, but probably not proof of any wrongdoing.

It does demonstrate something though. The originals lines, despite having identical characters, aren't parallel with each other and at weird angles. A word processor not a modern printer wouldn't do this, the lines would be virtually perfect, as they are in Phil's. However, it is something that a typewriter would do, making the accusation that the documents are forgeries made on Word seem very suspect.

[Darth Wong]

Listen folks, this is simple: these documents have been accused of being forgeries, based on the rationale that it was impossible to have made them with a typewriter. It turns out that this accusation is bullshit, so the defense attorneys have switched to attacking minor incongruities and saying that it is unlikely that the person who made the document had the right model of typewriter to do it.

In essence, we are now in a Johnnie Cochrane-style "if it doesn't fit, you must acquit" mode.

You've got to hand it to the Republicans though; their spin-doctors jumped on this really fast; much faster than the Democrats attacked the Swift Boat Veterans for Bullshit ads.

PS. For those who say they don't care about either candidate's Vietnam-era service, good for you. However, a CNN poll indicates that while 90% of the voters agree with you, 10% don't. 10% say that their voting decisions have been influenced by the debate over Vietnam-era actions. A tenth of the population may not be a big demographic for most purposes, but it could be fucking huge in this election.

[Iceberg]

Times New Roman is also NOT a "new" font by any stretch of the imagination; it was invented for the New York Times in the 1930s.

[Beowulf]

Listen folks, this is simple: these documents have been accused of being forgeries, based on the rationale that it was impossible to have made them with a typewriter. It turns out that this accusation is bullshit, so the defense attorneys have switched to attacking minor incongruities and saying that it is unlikely that the person who made the document had the right model of typewriter to do it.

In essence, we are now in a Johnnie Cochrane-style "if it doesn't fit, you must acquit" mode.

You've got to hand it to the Republicans though; their spin-doctors jumped on this really fast; much faster than the Democrats attacked the Swift Boat Veterans for Bullshit ads.

PS. For those who say they don't care about either candidate's Vietnam-era service, good for you. However, a CNN poll indicates that while 90% of the voters agree with you, 10% don't. 10% say that their voting decisions have been influenced by the debate over Vietnam-era actions. A tenth of the population may not be a big demographic for most purposes, but it could be fucking huge in this election.

And the fact that Col. Killian's family says they've never seen these before, that him typing up notes is uncharacteristic of him, that he didn't usually bring home work, and it's not the sort of thing an officer would do, doesn't make a difference, despite the fact that these documents allegedly came from his personal files?

[Darth Wong]

And the fact that Col. Killian's family says they've never seen these before,

Ah yes, I always show my family any memos I make

that him typing up notes is uncharacteristic of him, that he didn't usually bring home work, and it's not the sort of thing an officer would do,

I was unaware that "uncharacteristic" and "unusual" were synonymous with "impossible", even when dealing with a situation (administrative pressure to sugar-coat someone's records) that is obviously and intrinsically unusual on its face. I'll have to go buy a new dictionary; it would appear that word definitions (not to mention logic) have massively changed since I went to school.

doesn't make a difference, despite the fact that these documents allegedly came from his personal files?

Who recovered them from his personal files?

[Beowulf]

And the fact that Col. Killian's family says they've never seen these before,

Ah yes, I always show my family any memos I make

Hmm... well considering Col Killian's dead, and the owners of his personal files is his family, they've probably gone through them sometime in the past 20 years.

that him typing up notes is uncharacteristic of him, that he didn't usually bring home work, and it's not the sort of thing an officer would do,

I was unaware that "uncharacteristic" and "unusual" were synonymous with "impossible", even when dealing with a situation (administrative pressure to sugar-coat someone's records) that is obviously and intrinsically unusual on its face. I'll have to go buy a new dictionary; it would appear that word definitions (not to mention logic) have massively changed since I went to school.

When multiple people who knew the person who allegedly wrote these memos say they don't believe he would have written it like that and "No officer in his right mind would write a memo like that."

doesn't make a difference, despite the fact that these documents allegedly came from his personal files?

Who recovered them from his personal files?

No one knows. The family says they didn't.

[Glocksman]

In the Chicago Sun-Times, there's a column by Thomas Lipscomb quoting an expert in the field.

Column

Another blogger, Bill Ardolino at INDC Journal, who had read Powerline, said, "I decided to find a top typeface expert and ran his analysis on my Web site."

Ardolino's expert, Philip D. Bouffard, is a nationally recognized forensic authority in typewriter and electronic typefaces.

Bouffard has the largest collection of full letter impact typewriter specimens in a private collection today. Having worked at NCR and a forensic laboratory for more than 30 years, Bouffard still works with entities such as the State of Ohio on Medicare fraud cases.

Bouffard said the CBS documents appear to have been copied about 10 times in the state he saw them. Nevertheless, he states, "All the documents have been created on the same printer. And the proportional spacing and the common characteristics of numbers like 4 and 7 and letters like lower case c and upper case G are beyond the capabilities of any of the typewriter impact specimens I have in my collection. The centering of headings is also beyond the capabilities of any typewriter I know of."

His conclusion: "It is remotely possible there is some typewriter that has the capability to do all this ... but it is more likely these documents were generated in the common Times New Roman font and printed out on a computer printer that did not exist at the time they were supposedly created."

Bouffard is a registered Democrat planning to vote for Kerry.

In a related story, the Associated Press has reported that the son of Killian, Gary Killian, has questioned the authenticity of the documents as well and said they didn't come from his family.

Dr. Bouffard was (he's retired) both Director of, and Forensic Document Examiner with the Lake County, Ohio Regional Forensic Laboratory.

The plot thickens.

[Phil Skayhan]

More from Bouffard

However, Bouffard said, a colleague had called his attention to similarities between the font in the memos and that of the IBM Selectric Composer of the early 1970s. He said there did in fact appear to be similarities and he was checking further.

But he said it would be unusual for Bush's commanding officer to have had the IBM machine because of its large size. Bouffard said that he would see on Friday if the fonts matched more closely.

This will certainly be an interesting day.

[Glocksman]

If Bouffard or any other examiner had the original documents, this could be settled quite quickly.

Where are they?

Does CBS have them, or did Gunga Dan rush to the newsroom floor with 7th generation photocopies?

[Kuja]

Please. You can't have it both ways. If the general consensus is that Bushies boldface lied about WMD, knew they'd find nothing, then didn't PLANT any WMDs to find, why would they suddenly fake these documents?

It's a bit easier to plant documents than it is to plant nukes, Poe.

Not that I necessarily believe Durandal's theory, just pointing that out.