STGOD 4 OOC Thread (part 2)

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-09-12 10:51pm

I gave Aly permission to call limited damage because he wants to make one dramatic post, so dont bitch him out. I reserve that right if he does it wrong.

Marcao · Post by **Marcao** » 2004-09-12 10:51pm

Beowulf wrote:Does anyone else find it slightly ludicrous that magi is firing somewhere around a quarter million missiles a minute?

4k missiles per salvo, .9 seconds refire rate...

do you find that Aly is firing 45-60K missiles a volley ludicrous? we have a system to handle missile swarms.

Frigid has a fleet of 224 vessels that is roughly 17 missiles per ship. Not too bad.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-09-12 10:54pm

Marcao wrote:
Beowulf wrote:Does anyone else find it slightly ludicrous that magi is firing somewhere around a quarter million missiles a minute?

4k missiles per salvo, .9 seconds refire rate...
do you find that Aly is firing 45-60K missiles a volley ludicrous? we have a system to handle missile swarms.

Frigid has a fleet of 224 vessels that is roughly 17 missiles per ship. Not too bad.

I fire about a quarter million missiles per minute... with over half my fleet, and a refire rate of 30 seconds...

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-12 10:55pm

They don't have to be much...

Of and Hotfoot, of course Darksider should take casualties, but he DOES have 50% more ships than the enemy. He's going to have a large EW/point defense advantage, and ocne he gets to gun range (which will take a bit, and cost him casualties) he'll win.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-12 10:55pm

I fire about a quarter million missiles per minute... with over half my fleet, and a refire rate of 30 seconds...

And your individual missiles are shit, yeah, we know.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-12 10:57pm

Thirdfain wrote:They don't have to be much...

Of and Hotfoot, of course Darksider should take casualties, but he DOES have 50% more ships than the enemy. He's going to have a large EW/point defense advantage, and ocne he gets to gun range (which will take a bit, and cost him casualties) he'll win.

Not if closing costs him enough.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-09-12 10:57pm

Actually he's got 194, I got 224.

So no he does not outnumber me that much. He has alot more cap ships however.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-09-12 10:58pm

Darksider wrote:I worked it all out during the rape of terra.

Fusion cannon equiped ships have 40% less shield and weapons capacity while the cannons are chargind (A full power shot takes about ten minutes to charge) and the foreward fire arcs are not so good

So...wait, let me see if I understand this correctly.

Every. Single. ONE. of your cruisers has a Krell Lance-powered energy cannon on board, in addition to having standard cruiser weapons, armor, speed, and so on.

All for a minor drop in total cruiser power (how many have you built since this game started? You've got 80 now....it can't have been much lower than 50 I would think).

Lah dee dah, you lose 40% power to weapons and shields (not speed though) while you recharge. Yeah, like that's a real loss. Know what I'd do with ships like that? I'd just fire once per battle. That's all I'd need anyway. I'd autokill a cruiser once per battle, AND still have cruiser scale firepower and defense available to me for the REST of the battle.

Yeah. That's a great idea.

Oh, but wait, you lose decent weapons on your forward firing arc.

Big smegging deal. You still have cruiser-scale mobility, firepower and shields on the rest of the arc, and if these ships can line up a target just as manueverable as they are for a spinal weapon shot, they can easily manuever their turrets into position to fire for all the other times.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-12 11:01pm

Actually he's got 194, I got 224.

So no he does not outnumber me that much. He has alot more cap ships however.

The bulk of a fleet's firepower is it's capital units. Ok, you are right, he has roughly equal cruiser/escort forces. That is particularly important here because his PD will suffer- BUT when it gets down to it, he has you significantly beat in terms of hard firepower and damage absorbtion.

Marcao · Post by **Marcao** » 2004-09-12 11:02pm

Hotfoot has a point. I also don't like the idea that your supercap fusion cannons can auto a capital (which is reasonable) but your capitals can auto another cap (which is not so reasonable, considering the only weapon that should be allowed to do that is a krell lance). now, if your cruiser mounted fusion cannons can auto an -escort- it would be a lot more fair.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-12 11:03pm

Darksider, I am the biggest industrial power in the game and I have only 70 cruisers. Your cruiser wall has to be largely light cruisers, and I'm gonna havve to ask you to count the Fusion cannon as being MUCH weaker- maybe enough to kill 1/2 or 1/3rd oif a target cruiser's shields? And your cruisers will be only useful in swarms.

That doesen't change the fact that you have Frigid well outgunned here. Unless he runs, he will lose.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-09-12 11:03pm

Thirdfain wrote:They don't have to be much...

Of and Hotfoot, of course Darksider should take casualties, but he DOES have 50% more ships than the enemy. He's going to have a large EW/point defense advantage, and ocne he gets to gun range (which will take a bit, and cost him casualties) he'll win.

If he wanted to be realistic about this weak forward armament due to fusion cannons, his point defense would be seriously limited (particularly for his cruisers) because he can't mount good forward point defense with those fusion cannons in the way. And if he's advancing, well, his front end would be pointed towards the enemy, wouldn't it?

All the missiles would have to do is fly right down the mouths of those fusion cannons, wouldn't you think?

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-12 11:04pm

If he wanted to be realistic about this weak forward armament due to fusion cannons, his point defense would be seriously limited (particularly for his cruisers) because he can't mount good forward point defense with those fusion cannons in the way. And if he's advancing, well, his front end would be pointed towards the enemy, wouldn't it?

Don't be ridiculous. He could fit plenty of PD clusters even around a large bore central weapon. My own cruisers are built around Wave Motion Cannon, and they have excellent PD.

He has PD parity and firepower/absorbtion advantage. He'll win the fight unless Frigid runs, albeit with heavy casualties due to his advance across a field of missile fire.

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2004-09-12 11:07pm

I'm going to use my escorts and frigates to soak up the missiles, so the casualties will be mostly among them.

I have to log off and get some sleep, i;ll be on again tomorrow.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-12 11:08pm

You'll take some losses to capships, your light BBs especially, due to the fact your crusier screen isn't quite extensive enough- but you'll still clean up once you hit combat.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-09-12 11:09pm

Thirdfain wrote:Don't be ridiculous. He could fit plenty of PD clusters even around a large bore central weapon. My own cruisers are built around Wave Motion Cannon, and they have excellent PD.

Yes, but your wave motion cannons can't autokill a cruiser according to your OOB, can they? As that gun gets bigger, the more space it takes away from other weapons in that arc.

He has PD parity and firepower/absorbtion advantage. He'll win the fight unless Frigid runs, albeit with heavy casualties due to his advance across a field of missile fire.

You gain better point defense coverage by having more smaller ships, as they can better adjust position and firepower of PD cannons than larger ships can. As you've stated, the cruiser/escort levels are roughly the same, but Darksider has an edge on supercaps. Supercaps can take a lot of punishment, but I would argue that supercap point defense can't quite do the same amount of coverage as an escort combat group or two.

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2004-09-12 11:09pm

Thirdfain wrote:You'll take some losses to capships, your light BBs especially, due to the fact your crusier screen isn't quite extensive enough- but you'll still clean up once you hit combat.

So in about 2-3 minuted STGOD time, the UP gets smashed wide open.

I have to go to bed now.

Marcao · Post by **Marcao** » 2004-09-12 11:12pm

Thirdfain wrote:You'll take some losses to capships, your light BBs especially, due to the fact your crusier screen isn't quite extensive enough- but you'll still clean up once you hit combat.

Absolutely. The problem still remains however that the UP by virtue of having fewer capitals have a slightly faster fleet so catching them won't be an instanteneous affair. Furthermore, the easiest solution (a tactical jump of some kind) has been removed from the options because the UP fleet, is using interdictors.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-12 11:14pm

Yes, but your wave motion cannons can't autokill a cruiser according to your OOB, can they? As that gun gets bigger, the more space it takes away from other weapons in that arc.

I'm going to talk to Darksider, and have him turn his Fusion guns on the cruisers into basically more powerful less versatile WMCs. If that's done and cool, we can assume they are actually decent PD vessels.

You gain better point defense coverage by having more smaller ships, as they can better adjust position and firepower of PD cannons than larger ships can. As you've stated, the cruiser/escort levels are roughly the same, but Darksider has an edge on supercaps. Supercaps can take a lot of punishment, but I would argue that supercap point defense can't quite do the same amount of coverage as an escort combat group or two.

Agreed.

How's this for losses- 3 BBs killed, 2 disabled, 6 crusiers killed, 1 disabled, and 15-20 escorts killed or disabled to bring the Krytos Wall of Battle into tight gun range?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-12 11:14pm

Darksider wrote:
Thirdfain wrote:You'll take some losses to capships, your light BBs especially, due to the fact your crusier screen isn't quite extensive enough- but you'll still clean up once you hit combat.

So in about 2-3 minuted STGOD time, the UP gets smashed wide open.

I have to go to bed now.

I would think that no, it really doesn't, because who in the hell said you were that much faster than he is?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-12 11:15pm

Heh. Hey Bugsby, bet my Dauntless could kick your Dauntless's ass.

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-09-12 11:15pm

RE tacjumps, what are the rules about these? You cant do an automove anywhere anytime without consequences, that should be a given. So what is the damage?

I'd say decreased shield power and weapons fire for about a minute before and after the jump as power is being rediverted. Or something like that. Thoughts?

edit: 666 posts!

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-12 11:17pm

Bugsby wrote:RE tacjumps, what are the rules about these? You cant do an automove anywhere anytime without consequences, that should be a given. So what is the damage?

I'd say decreased shield power and weapons fire for about a minute before and after the jump as power is being rediverted. Or something like that. Thoughts?

edit: 666 posts!

For you energy weapon pukes, sure.

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-09-12 11:17pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Heh. Hey Bugsby, bet my Dauntless could kick your Dauntless's ass.

nuh uh!

Ah, I didn't realize there was anothe Dauntless out there. I might change it. Then again, I might not. Meh.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-12 11:19pm

Bugsby wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:Heh. Hey Bugsby, bet my Dauntless could kick your Dauntless's ass.
nuh uh!

Ah, I didn't realize there was anothe Dauntless out there. I might change it. Then again, I might not. Meh.

Well, it's not the leading ship of it's class. NRS Dauntless is a Claymore class battleship.