STGOD 4 OOC Thread (part 2)

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-16 12:44am

Stormbringer wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:Well I have precedent to call for treating your captains as pirates now, bucko. Killing a prisoner without trial aboard ship is an act of piracy and you just committed it.
Now if anyone actually knew, that might be an issue.

If you're going to wave international law around, then I get to speak with the prisoners.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-16 12:45am

The Alliance is a gang of mass murderers. *Footage of Arcanists* This is the sort of action the Nashtar support! That's alot more PR than 'Well, ah, one of our guys shot a console and he never did come back from on the ship..'

"Nahtar stood on the sidelines while the Arcanist murder-squads slaughtered the Krynor symbiotes- sentient beings. The only nation to stand against this campaign of murder has been the Diaspora of the Unbound. Who'se the real monster here?"

Yup, I was the only guy who did. My fleet stopped him from clensing Ja'del. Heh heh.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-16 12:46am

Rogue 9 wrote:If you're going to wave international law around, then I get to speak with the prisoners.

Nope. And I won't be waving the law around at all. He's dead, the matter's, settled, and they're not going give the incident a second thought.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-16 01:00am

Stormbringer wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:If you're going to wave international law around, then I get to speak with the prisoners.
Nope. And I won't be waving the law around at all. He's dead, the matter's, settled, and they're not going give the incident a second thought.

Oh, you will. You will.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-16 01:01am

Rogue 9 wrote:Oh, you will. You will.

Not really. All the action took place on an Asgard ship and the crew will be held incummunicado. There's not much you can do to turn it into an issue.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-16 01:02am

Stormbringer wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:Oh, you will. You will.
Not really. All the action took place on an Asgard ship and the crew will be held incummunicado. There's not much you can do to turn it into an issue.

I know my crew will (you bastard violator of the rules of war), but will yours? They are, after all, human.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-16 01:04am

I know my crew will (you bastard violator of the rules of war), but will yours? They are, after all, human.

I think this little PR operation is gonna hit a massive wall of "Who Gives a Fuck?"

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-16 01:04am

Rogue 9 wrote:I know my crew will (you bastard violator of the rules of war), but will yours? They are, after all, human.

They're also Asgard soldiers. And to be quite honestly they're going to veiw your captain as deserving that. Good luck finding a man that wouldn't be happy the guy got dead.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-09-16 01:05am

Thirdfain wrote:
I know my crew will (you bastard violator of the rules of war), but will yours? They are, after all, human.
I think this little PR operation is gonna hit a massive wall of "Who Gives a Fuck?"

TONIGHT! On Warwatch, fifty thousand killed by Alliance strikes on shipyards and orbital infrastructure. In response, a Unification fleet annihilated no less than five million soldiers in a coordinated bombardment effort. Also, the Nashtari whine about one crew being missing. Next, we have the sports...

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-16 01:06am

Stormbringer wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:I know my crew will (you bastard violator of the rules of war), but will yours? They are, after all, human.
They're also Asgard soldiers. And to be quite honestly they're going to veiw your captain as deserving that. Good luck finding a man that wouldn't be happy the guy got dead.

So, your troops are utterly inhuman? Don't care about the massive wrong that was perpetrated right before their eyes? Won't even feel the slightest twinge of guilt at being party to such enormity? This is how people turn, Stormbringer. Every intel agency in the world depends on getting at least some of their agents this way.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-16 01:08am

Rogue, don't be stupid.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-16 01:09am

Rogue 9 wrote:So, your troops are utterly inhuman? Don't care about the massive wrong that was perpetrated right before their eyes? Won't even feel the slightest twinge of guilt at being party to such enormity? This is how people turn, Stormbringer. Every intel agency in the world depends on getting at least some of their agents this way.

Except it's hardly an atrocity. To work up moral outrage there would have to be something to outrage them. The Asgard lost the ship because of him. So they're not going to consider him at all innocent.

Trust me, to them this is simply justice.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-16 01:10am

Thirdfain wrote:Rogue, don't be stupid.

How is it stupid? There are no secrets aboard a ship. Everyone in that crew is going to find out that their captain ordered a man murdered without trial. The odds are quite great that at least one maintains some spark of humanity, enough to not like this, and possibly talk.

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-09-16 01:10am

Rogue 9 wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:I know my crew will (you bastard violator of the rules of war), but will yours? They are, after all, human.
They're also Asgard soldiers. And to be quite honestly they're going to veiw your captain as deserving that. Good luck finding a man that wouldn't be happy the guy got dead.
So, your troops are utterly inhuman? Don't care about the massive wrong that was perpetrated right before their eyes? Won't even feel the slightest twinge of guilt at being party to such enormity? This is how people turn, Stormbringer. Every intel agency in the world depends on getting at least some of their agents this way.

I have to agree with you there. That's how I get most of my agents. But seriously, now. The guy was resisting arrest (to stretch the definition). But lets take a look at this. I was able to find ONE GUY who felt bad about having the Dracs kill an entire crew of pirates by torturing them then spacing them. Killing one guy who was resisting arrest won't evoke feelings of guilt or pity. It will evoke feelings of "that dumb bastard."

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-16 01:12am

I believe both Nitram and Stormbringer have risen EXCELLENT points. The captain of your vessel ISN'T an innocent. He broke his surrender, and paid a price for it. It's justice- bloody justice, but justice none the less. Your captain was being retarded, essentially resisting arrest. Besides, he works for a morally bankrupt power which supports a massive terrorist action. I don't see any members of the ship's crew giving a half a shit about it.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-16 01:14am

Stormbringer wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:So, your troops are utterly inhuman? Don't care about the massive wrong that was perpetrated right before their eyes? Won't even feel the slightest twinge of guilt at being party to such enormity? This is how people turn, Stormbringer. Every intel agency in the world depends on getting at least some of their agents this way.
Except it's hardly an atrocity. To work up moral outrage there would have to be something to outrage them. The Asgard lost the ship because of him. So they're not going to consider him at all innocent.

Trust me, to them this is simply justice.

"What sort of man would trade a man's life for a ship?"

"A pirate."

I don't give a damn what he did; summary execution is far and away outside of the international law you just used to justify your action a little bit ago. One of the weaknesses of being civilized is guilt. You claim to be oh so civilized. Therefore, it follows that at least some of your men will act the part.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-09-16 01:17am

Rogue 9 wrote: "What sort of man would trade a man's life for a ship?"

"A pirate."

I don't give a damn what he did; summary execution is far and away outside of the international law you just used to justify your action a little bit ago. One of the weaknesses of being civilized is guilt. You claim to be oh so civilized. Therefore, it follows that at least some of your men will act the part.

Oh, lay it to rest you biblical asshat. By the powers, could you be more childish? You don't get your pretty PR. Deal with it. My god, if you had actually expended something you might have a glimmery of a point, but this is just you trying to be clever. And failing badly.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-16 01:20am

Rogue 9 wrote:"What sort of man would trade a man's life for a ship?"

"A pirate."

I don't give a damn what he did; summary execution is far and away outside of the international law you just used to justify your action a little bit ago. One of the weaknesses of being civilized is guilt. You claim to be oh so civilized. Therefore, it follows that at least some of your men will act the part.

International law dictactes that your man not cause trouble after surrending. So no help there.

As for feelings of guilt, sorry there won't be any. Most of them are going to be thinking along the exact lines that Bugsby supported. Add in that he cost them prize money and the pity factor is non-existant.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-16 01:22am

Thirdfain wrote:I believe both Nitram and Stormbringer have risen EXCELLENT points. The captain of your vessel ISN'T an innocent.

Of any crime justifying execution, much less summary execution? I daresay he is.

He broke his surrender, and paid a price for it.

Point to the part of the surrender terms named by either party that specified an undamaged ship.

It's justice- bloody justice, but justice none the less.

jus·tice
n.
1.) The quality of being just; fairness.

2.)
a.) The principle of moral rightness; equity.
b.) Conformity to moral rightness in action or attitude; righteousness.

3.) The upholding of what is just, especially fair treatment and due reward in accordance with honor, standards, or law.

Hmmmmmm... Man's life > ship's instrument panel. That's not justice.

Your captain was being retarded, essentially resisting arrest.

The captain was making the traditional token gesture of defiance.

And he did not resist arrest at all until it became clear that he was not going to be arrested at all, but rather simply (and illegally) shot.

Besides, he works for a morally bankrupt power which supports a massive terrorist action.

Will you cut the bullshit in the OOC thread? Lie in character if you must, but in here you're not fooling anyone.

I don't see any members of the ship's crew giving a half a shit about it.

I do. And I intend to act upon it.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-09-16 01:23am

Rogue 9 wrote:
I don't see any members of the ship's crew giving a half a shit about it.
I do. And I intend to act upon it.

We'll be sure to laugh and disregard you autoing stuff with no plausible reason, then. Are you going to actually get on with the STGOD, or endeavour to drown it out in your whining some more?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-16 01:26am

SirNitram wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
I don't see any members of the ship's crew giving a half a shit about it.
I do. And I intend to act upon it.
We'll be sure to laugh and disregard you autoing stuff with no plausible reason, then. Are you going to actually get on with the STGOD, or endeavour to drown it out in your whining some more?

In that case, I get to disregard all riots on Ix'agal and all other instances of autoing. I have just as much reason as anyone else. They're civilized human beings, and as such will feel guilt.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-16 01:26am

Point to the part of the surrender terms named by either party that specified an undamaged ship.

There WERE no surrender terms. Stand down or die.

Will you cut the bullshit in the OOC thread? Lie in character if you must, but in here you're not fooling anyone.

Wrong. I'm fooling EVERYONE who is important to this little debacle, which is to say, the Asgard sailors and Known Space at large.

"Oh, no, some Nashtar shipping captain killed for fucking about when he surrendered? Oh, well, I spent all my sympathy on the SIX MILLION INNOCENT CIVILIANS killed without warning by the nation Nashtar supports!"

I do. And I intend to act upon it.

Toot toot! That's the Clue Train, over the horizon, and you are square in the middle of the tracks.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-09-16 01:27am

Rogue 9 wrote:
SirNitram wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote: I do. And I intend to act upon it.
We'll be sure to laugh and disregard you autoing stuff with no plausible reason, then. Are you going to actually get on with the STGOD, or endeavour to drown it out in your whining some more?
In that case, I get to disregard all riots on Ix'agal and all other instances of autoing. I have just as much reason as anyone else. They're civilized human beings, and as such will feel guilt.

I'm right I'm right I'm right I'm right!

Shut up, Rogue. Go whine to people who care, you've used up your quota of give a shit here.

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-09-16 01:28am

Rogue 9 wrote:Will you cut the bullshit in the OOC thread? Lie in character if you must, but in here you're not fooling anyone.

He's not acting IC in the OOC thread! How many times have you accused him of this and how many times have I bit my lip from yelling at you? (Answer: many) Now I'll let you know. Thirdfain is using an advanced rhetorical strategy. Rather than say "In-character, everyone thinks that..." preceding every time he makes a comment like this, he merely says it straight out for you to consider. If he were saying this to you face to face, he would be saying it with a slightly exasperated tone but perhaps with a wry grin. Put that in your mind. He's pointing something out in the OOC thread to let you know that this is an issue you have to deal with IC.

Next time he says "The Ousters are all good people," he KNOWS you know they are bad. He's saying that for all anyone in game knows, they are good people, and that is a reality you will have to deal with if you want to get anywhere in IC arguments. He's doing you a FAVOR by presenting his defense OOC before you walk right into it IC, and you yelling at him every time he does it gets me irritated.

But that's just my pet peeve.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-16 01:30am

In that case, I get to disregard all riots on Ix'agal and all other instances of autoing. I have just as much reason as anyone else. They're civilized human beings, and as such will feel guilt.

The subjects of the Ix'agal situation: Hardcore fundamentalists who had been mind-tampered by literal foriegn pagan witch monsters and invaded by heretics.

The subjeects of this situation: Elite soldiers of a potent nationalist power who saw a captain of an enemy power who had just violated surrender killed. The poweer this captain supportshas allowed it's allies to commit numeerous major atrocities.

Am I the only one who thinks these AREN'T similar circumstances?